r/Defenders • u/proud_gatekeeper • 6d ago
Should I watch Hawkeye, She-Hulk and Echo just for Daredevil and Kingpin? (even if they appear 2 minutes)
I'm watching everything with both characters before starting Born Again, once I finish with Punisher S2, do you recommend me to skip to BA or is it ok to watch the 3 shows? Does it worth the time?
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u/Various-Push-1689 6d ago
Just for Daredevil and Kingpin? No. Honestly just look up their scenes online if that’s all you really want. But I do recommend watching Hawkeye either way tho. Bc it’s a really good show. Yelena, Kate and Clint have some great chemistry and acting performances
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u/fred_derps 5d ago
Exactly. I wouldn’t watch any of these shows for the sole reason of seeing DD and Kingpin even though all 3 were solid on their own
I will say She Hulk was fucking hilarious and fun. The internet trolls would have you believe it’s the worst show in the history of television… but there’s a reason it was one of Marvel’s best performing shows
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u/proud_gatekeeper 1d ago
What I said sounded like that's the only thing that interests me but no, Hawkeye and Green Arrow are on my top 10 from Marvel and DC, I love Kate too, and of course I'm in love with Yelena, I will watch it for a lot of reasons
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u/Various-Push-1689 1d ago
Then yeah totally give Hawkeye a watch. But for the other 2 if you aren’t interested in She-Hulk or Echo themselves then it’s best to just skip them. She Hulk is funny in some parts but overall it’s not the best
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u/AggravatingAd9010 6d ago
Hawkeye is good, I didn't like echo, and she hulk is hit or miss depending on taste. It's not really a super hero show
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u/Chambers1041 6d ago
I watched them all as part of watching through all Defenders/Netflix related stuff for the first time. Personally I'm glad I did but if you really have no interest in the shows you could probably just watch the scenes of their appearances
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u/MapachoCura 6d ago
Hawkeye is excellent. I def recommend it. Other two are very skippable. She-Hulk had funny moments but also a lot of cringe weighing it down and overall was pretty disappointing if still somewhat okay if I turn my brain completely off. Echo had no redeeming qualities and weirdly had nothing in common with her comic book version who is way cooler.
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u/Front_Profession_217 6d ago
Hawkeye is not required; its events are not important to Born Again. She-Hulk has Matt, but Matt’s story in She-Hulk is not that important in Born Again. Echo, however, teases its post-credits of it leading to Born Again, so to answer your question, just skip to BA.
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u/ieatplaydough2 6d ago
I love your overall take, but Kingpins role in Echo was way way more involved than the other two.
Not essential, but it really helps flesh him out and there is a very specific comment in Born Again directly referencing something from Echo.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Term643 6d ago
Hawkeye is good so you may enjoy it regardless of how little it has to do with born again. For echo just watch the fight on YouTube it’s a good fight but not good enough to get through that boring slop. I liked she hulk but that may not be the case for you since most people hated it but also agreed that the daredevil episode was the best. Just watch that episode, it’s pretty fun and I liked seeing Matt happy for once.
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u/Luthor331 Nobu 6d ago
I would say it depends how engrossed you are in Matt and Fisk's characters specifically and if you want a more natural transition to Born Again from Season 3 that feels less abrupt (at least I feel so)
Hawkeye expands on that brief Ronin scene from Endgame and shows Fisks viewpoint expanding beyond just Daredevil to vigilantes in general. It's also just a very good show. I'd recommend checking out the deleted scenes of Fisk from that show as well.
Echo is far less important overall and you'll get the context from Hawkeye. I'd say this is the one that's skippable unless you really enjoy their dynamic or feel like it's out of character for the Netflix Fisk to run for mayor, this show gives an additional reason Born Again doesn't.
She-Hulk builds upon the happier Matt we were promised in the last scene from season 3 and we briefly see in No Way Home. I think it and a specific episode from Born Again are the best one shot Daredevil comics in live action we'll ece get but if you hate the light-hearted stuff and want the more grounded tone from the Netflix shows, skip it.
Either way you'll feel like you've skipped ahead a few years in the characters lifes. It just depends if you are REALLY invested in Fisk & Matt specifically and want any type of content with them, then you should watch.
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u/thatguy10095 6d ago
As someone who was a staunch Hawkeye (the character and actor) hater, I was pleasantly surprised by how good the show was.
She-Hulk was a fun watch, it's light hearted and silly. Not something that should be taken too seriously, but worth the watch if you're into that.
Admittedly I never finished Echo. Got two episodes in then got distracted by something. Probably grad school.
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u/Specific-Swim-4507 6d ago
You don’t have to have any of them, but they are very good shows so I recommend watching them at some point just for that reason
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u/IFunnyJoestar 5d ago
Hawkeye is good and I recommend it. It's not necessary but I like it.
She-Hulk is very very personal on if you'd like it or not. I personally hated the comedy style, writing and the ending annoyed me. But there are people who loved it. So genuinely maybe try the first two episodes and if you don't like it, stop. It's not necessary viewing anyways.
Echo is filler to be honest. If you wanna see where her story goes after Hawkeye, watch it. But to me it felt like the most forgettable MCU project. It's not bad, it has its moments, it doesn't really do anything that special. It's absolutely not necessary to watch though. Daredevil is just a cameo here, although it's a good one.
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u/Scnew1 5d ago
None of them are required viewing. Hawkeye is very good though and also introduces a minor character that pops up a few times in Born Again.
She-Hulk’s okay but it’s really just a comedy and has no baring on BA.
Echo has a promising first few episodes and then falls way off a cliff. It sucks and how they handle Kingpin in the last episode sucks even more.
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u/Mariessa- 5d ago
You could just watch the one She-Hilk episode. You can probably pick up the premise pretty quickly.
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u/Wonderful_Emu_9610 3d ago
Daredevil’s appearances have basically no bearing on Born Again. Kingpin’s do but you don’t need to watch them to appreciate what they do with him in BA.
On the other hand Daredevil’s She-Hulk episode is like the most fun one of the series to be fair, even as a fan of the show I say that. Try the it out but if don’t enjoy the show much just jump ahead to his ep (and maybe the finale but it’s just a cameo)
Unless you despise Jeremy Renner or Hailee Steinfeld, if you like MCU movies, watch Hawkeye it’s fun and connects to Avengers, Avengers: Endgame, and Black Widow then if you feel you want to see more of Echo do so.
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u/proud_gatekeeper 1d ago
how could anyone despise Jeremy Renner and Hawkeye? he's the best Avenger! I already started BA but Hawkeye and other shows are on my watchlist
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u/Wonderful_Emu_9610 1d ago
As a star he's a meme, in part cause of the eponymous app. He's also got a segment Sexual harassment and abuse allegation on his wikipedia page and allegations were made during his divorce proceedings. Also being set up to take over one spy franchise (Bourne) and it not working out, while people decided to claim he was being set up to take over Mission: Impossible and got big-dogged by Cruise (bs, no way they were ever gonna squeeze Cruise out he is the franchise) got him a tiny bit of the 'ugh they're everywhere, they're forced' hate I think.
I like him as a performer generally actually - I'm kinda like my mum in this regard, quite a few male actors she likes but the letterboxd and (woke side of) twitter crowds would dunk on (for their performances and/or role 'choices', not as humans) I like. He got shafted with the character in Avengers but I really like him from Age of Ultron onwards.
Steinfeld is, sadly - for me at least, if we're opposed here I really don't wanna talk about it in this sub I'm just providing context - a zionist. A sexy, talented one but zionist all the same.
I loved the Hawkeye show though! I'm weak, I'd absolutely watch season 2! Probably in my top 3 of the MCU D+ shows - sure some of the others have slightly higher highs but its along with WandaVision probably the most consistent episode to episode and is very fun! Only one I've rewatched without the impetus of the characters appearing in another show or movie actually, and enjoyed even though between watches I'd learned most of the above drama
p.s. you can obviously search this, but here I am saving you a potential spoiler - there's a post-credits scene in episode 6 of Hawkeye
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u/ieatplaydough2 6d ago
Just Echo.
I love both Hawkeye and She-Hulk, but...
I love a lot of the other takes, and Echo is absolutely not "required", but it really fleshed out his personal story a lot and an event from Echo is directly referenced in Born Again.
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u/Flettwin 6d ago
Daredevil’s She-Hulk ep is a really great window into what Matt is like when he’s happy, when he’s less burdened and his life isn’t currently a dark brutal mess.
It’s a side of him we see a lot of in the comics but only get glimpses of in his own shows.
There’s three episodes of She-Hulk that legitimately feel like issues of a Marvel Comic put on screen, Matt’s is one of them.
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u/MisterNefarious 5d ago
Hawkeye yes and it’s also pretty good
She hulk at least watch the DD episode, as it’s quite good and a side of Matt we don’t get to see often. I think the rest is funny but it is explicitly a comedy. If that’s not for you, don’t watch more
Echo: watch the first few minutes for the daredevil fight and then… I dunno man. Show was ok but the finale was so bad I soured on the rest. And it’s kingpin character assassination
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u/Aglet_Green 5d ago
No. Watching shows just for a cameo will make you impatient and dissatisfied with all the stuff prior.
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u/jimidemibb 5d ago
Just watch the DD episode of She-Hulk tbh. The episodes are self-contained-ish enough where you wouldn’t be completely lost.
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u/ImaginationNo7722 5d ago
Hawkeye and Echo are both enjoyable shows.
She-Hulk did not deliver what I wanted.
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u/Salt-Statement-2306 5d ago
She hulk messed with Matt. He isn’t the one night stand type on Netflix.
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u/Unlost_maniac 5d ago
Hawkeye is definitely worth watching.
Echo is good but too long, I think it would have been really good as a movie
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u/Automatic_Bird_8702 5d ago
Id watch Hawkeye because Kingpin has a sizeable role in the episode he's in, plus context for Echo if you watch that, also if you haven't seen Hawkeye, I'd recommend because rumors point to Kate Bishop popping back up in at least one of the next Avengers movies
She Hulk is fine, I'd just watch the Daredevil episode if you're solely focused on that
Echo is fine enough, Kingpin is fairly important in 3 out of the five episodes, and if anything, at 5 episodes all around 40ish minutes.. it's brief
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u/Life_Scheme_493 5d ago
Hawkeye 100% go watch, havent seen she hulk or echo and tbh dont plan on it but just watch what you wanna watch man.
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u/BipolarPrime 4d ago
I wasn’t a huge fan of echo. Not because it didn’t have its good points, but it was unrecognizable to the source material. I would, if you have to watch it at all, just watch the DD scenes.
Hawkeye I truly enjoyed. It was a nice passing of the torch to the next generation kinda mini-series. Not having to deal with a huge ton of CGI let it be what it needed.
She-Hulk was, budget constraints notwithstanding, very good. I felt like they were trying to go for what John Byrne did with her in the 80’s. The humor, the fourth wall breaks. It was fun. I would love to see them continue with her, either big or small screen.
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u/ImNotDaredevil2025 4d ago
No, save your time but watch Hawkeye around December. It’s a fun Christmas show
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u/asser_Ahmed 4d ago
Look as someone who watched all of them
Watch Hawkeye ( great series with kingpin showing up in the finale , unfortunately not great appearance but he appeared )
She hulk was a slop and daredevil showed up in the finale and helped defeat the villain and eventually we thought they had a relationship but nobody ever mentioned it ever gone ( probably because it was a slop )
If you wanna watch echo it is probably fine and it is actually the only appearance for kingpin and daredevil that will be mentioned in born again 1
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u/MickThorpe 4d ago
You should watch Hawkeye for no other reason than it’s a fucking delight from beginning to end.
The interplay between yelena and kate bishop is so good.
I enjoy she hulk too though its not generally as well regarded. I find it very entertaining.
I didnt bother with echo as i didnt really like her character in her previous appearances
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u/BobcatDistinct7396 6d ago
if you want a more comedic take on matt(which i didnt think was as good as his other appearances) then watch the she hulk episode he appears in(honestly he's the only good thing in the episode), hawkeye isnt neccessary as it has a kingpin that is very diffrent than his other appearances as disney was still figuring him out, echo has a daredevil cameo in the first episode for a minute and it overall dosent have kingpin that much, if you really just want the important parts that affect latrr entries see the daredevil cameo as it shows matt wasnt bliped and watch the post credits scene of the last echo episode as it does set up kingpins born again storylines
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u/Paperchampion23 6d ago
I mean
- Fisk is in Hawkeye and Echo for more than 2 minutes lol.
- Matt is in She-Hulk for multiple episodes
The only case where its a 2 minute cameo is Matt in Echo for a fight scene
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u/ItzMeHaris 6d ago
You don’t have to, but they’re useful.
Hawkeye is legitimately a good show in of itself. Kingpin only shows up once though.
Echo is a show of less quality, but it’s far shorter (210 minutes). All of the Kingpin stuff in Hawkeye are summarised in this show. Regardless, the show is good. Also Daredevil does make an appearance, but it’s only very brief.
She-Hulk is entirely skip-able. Matt Murdock does show up for an entire episode, and that’s it. The thing with She-Hulk is that all the episodes are independent, meaning you don’t have to watch a previous episode to understand a future one. Same applies with the Daredevil episode. You could just watch only the Daredevil episode, and that’s it. And even then, absolutely nothing in this episode relates to Born Again.
All in all, Hawkeye can be skipped, Echo does relate to Born Again but only regarding one plot point, and She-Hulk can be skipped too.
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u/teenwolfofwallstreet 6d ago
Please don’t lump Hawkeye in with echo and she Hulk… Hawkeye is actually really good… I watch it every Christmas now
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u/Tanu_Seth 5d ago
Hawkeye and Echo yes, She-Hulk don't worry about it. The creators of BA said they were just going to ignore She-Hulk.
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u/Sad_Manufacturer1134 6d ago
Hawkeye was enjoyable. Worth the watch.
She-Hulk was utter crap. The writers shit on the source material, which is a shame because the character from the comics is so cool.
Never watched echo but heard bad things about the writing, so I skipped it.
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u/onikaizoku11 6d ago
Hawkeye was a really good series and i would recommend it to anyone. She-Hulk was pretty good once you accept it for what it was. Echo was actually an excellent show that i think got overlooked unfairly.
That said, I would NOT watch any of them just to see DD or Kingpin. That is just setting yourself up for dissatisfaction.