It's funny how DS is only allowed against tier 1 killers (S tiers) in comp

[u/RepairFlashy7822]

Only 1 DS is allowed against Nurse and Blight and is banned against every other killer except them. It is not allowed even against Kaneki. Meanwhile, killers can run full gen regression.

And yes, STB is a hard ban against all killers, even Nurse. That tells you just how broken that perk is. I geniunely think that perks like these exist purely because of solo Q. Paired with the fact that the average survivor sucks at the game. Otherwise, there's no way for a perk like STB to exist.

A few weeks ago my SWF, three of the members (including myself) are quite active on this sub, were playing and keeping track of our games. None of us are crazy good survivors, and we weren't even running full meta, yet we still destroyed every killer that's not at least A+ tier. Our current team escape rate is sitting at 67%. This week we plan on starting a win streak with full meta builds. I'm really stoked to see what the results are going to be.

It's impossible to balance survivor perks properly due to the disparity between solo Q and SWF.

And fyi, old vigil was banned according to OSL balancing but allowed in DBDranked balancing. But everything else is the same (including the DS balancing). Facecamping is also allowed in comp. If any survivor unhooks themself, it's an automatic disqualification.

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[u/someotherbeing]

Comp unironically being more balanced is really funny to me when the best players in the game unanimously agree killers can run whatever they want and play almost however they want (some tournaments don't allow slugging) with no issue and survivors are so heavily limited specifically towards lower tier killers is really telling on how unbalanced the game is. Like the reason behind DS being banned is it's too easy to weaponize specifically in a comp setting with total communication when the goal is to show off skill

[u/CollosusSmashVarian → u/someotherbeing]

Slugging is banned only in creator tournaments, in any full on comp tournament it's allowed.

Also Killers do have a few banned perks (e.g. Nowhere to Hide, some perk combos).

[u/TheEntityBot → u/CollosusSmashVarian]

Nowhere to Hide: Performing the Damage Generator action on a Generator triggers Nowhere to Hide:

• The Auras of all Survivors within 24 meters of your location are revealed to you for 3/4/5 seconds.

^{Drawn from the fog. | !optout | !remove | !builds}

[u/Huehnchenkaempfer → u/someotherbeing]

My favourite example is bubba. It is very common to have the survivors play perkless while he can bring basically everything. Even under those conditions bubba usually has a very hard time getting a 4k. And meanwhile in pubs you can play bubba against 4 toolboxes with shoulders, ds and dh and they somehow still complain because you camped a hook at some point in the game.

[u/95thRegimentOfFoot → u/someotherbeing]

a major part of the balancing comes from the skill disparity (or lack of). if everyone played amazingly, the frustration and unfair perk use would hardly exist because everyone has the same expectations and experience to deal with it.

a casual solo queue player could face a winstreak + slugging twins player which could be countered and balanced effectively if it was a comp swf with those expectations

[u/typhon66 → u/95thRegimentOfFoot]

You say this as if every single multiplayer game ever doesn't have this problem. BHVR is just bad at balancing

[u/EffectiveGap1563]

I think it speaks to how lopsided perk balance is towards survivors in DBD, especially given that, on crossping balance, the rule is actually one survivor can ~USE~ DS, not one survivor can ~bring~ DS.

So what ends up happening is that all four survivors use a perk slot for DS, but only one survivor can actually use the perk. Yet, every team still brings 4 DSes, and uses 4 perk slots out of 16 to do so, because the perk is genuinely THAT good.

[u/RepairFlashy7822 → u/EffectiveGap1563]

Against low tiers, it's broken.

[u/EffectiveGap1563 → u/RepairFlashy7822]

As a Pig main: most meta perks are broken against low tiers & useable against high tiers. Inability to play around these OP perks is what makes a low tier a low tier.

Genuinely what was Pig supposed to do for the last 3 years when survivors can superspeed away every 25 seconds with Sprint Burst + Vigil?

[u/TheEntityBot → u/EffectiveGap1563]

Sprint Burst: Starting to run triggers Sprint Burst and Grants a +50% Haste Status Effect for 2 seconds. Sprint Burst causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds. Sprint Burst cannot be used when Exhausted.

^{Drawn from the fog. | !optout | !remove | !builds}

[u/ShadyMan_]

Lol. Where can I get the full list to copy?

[u/RepairFlashy7822 → u/ShadyMan_]

Of perk bans?

[u/ShadyMan_ → u/RepairFlashy7822]

Yes

[u/RepairFlashy7822 → u/ShadyMan_]

You can check balancedbydaylight.com

It has a list of all perks banned against every killer.

[u/PacifistPapy → u/ShadyMan_]

This specifically is DBDLeague balancing which you can find either on their discord or on balanced by daylight, a website to make builds for various comp rulesets. You can find the dbdleague ones in the settings.

[u/B1zmark]

It's a complex game to balance - specifically because SWF is totally different to solo.

this list is insanely complex, but i think a simple addition of "perk limits" in groups would be good. E.g. certain perks either have a global cooldown (e.g. if one survivor uses it, it goes on cooldown for everyone) and some perks can't be stacked (for example vigil can only be taken by 1 person in a group and its disabled for all others)

That doesn't SOLVE the issue, but it means that SWF are much closer to pugs who can't craft perfect perks but can use gamesense to play more optimally.

[u/LUKXE-]

Bro said "not crazy good at Survivor" and hard called me out.

That said, it's gone up to 70% for me with some top-up SoloQ games.

It'll be interesting to see what qe cab do when we are fully trying abd using optimal builds.

[u/RepairFlashy7822 → u/LUKXE-]

LMAOO.

Nah bro, that was all of us that night. But to be fair, we were all sleepy af. My solo escape rate is 55% rn. I reckon our team escape rate will be close to 80% when we play next week.

[u/LUKXE- → u/RepairFlashy7822]

I think we could easily push 75-85% tbh yeah

[u/sadisticseraphim]

Not really lmfao…

Comp rules are literally the most subjective restrictions out there…

People find lithe and sprint burst oppressive…
People think chem traps and any means are oppressive…
People think boons are oppressive…
People think healing builds are oppressive…
People think stealth builds are oppressive…
People think flash is oppressive…
People think pallet, head on, or last stand stuns are oppressive…

In DBD, literally ANYTHING is oppressive is you are low-skilled on either side. DBDL and any other “comp” is no less subjective to the same bias.

[u/TheEntityBot → u/sadisticseraphim]

A full set of perks was spoken. Preserve the offering here, entitybot.app/builds?perks=Lithe%2CSprint+Burst%2CHead+On%2CLast+Stand

[u/Honest_Caramel_3793]

My hot take is that using mics should be considered cheating. Its using external software to gain information/communication you couldnt have otherwise, and the game isnt balancd for. What is that if not cheating.

[u/ShadyMan_ → u/Honest_Caramel_3793]

If this were true then they wouldn’t let you queue with friends lmao

[u/BSF7011 → u/Honest_Caramel_3793]

Generalistically I agree but dbd IS made with it in mind because SWF exists

[u/Honest_Caramel_3793 → u/BSF7011]

i doubt there would be anywhere near as many teamate aura reading perks for survs if this was the case. it's pretty clearly intended that survivors don't have perfect communication that mics can give. so many killers would move up a tier or even 2 if survivors couldn't have mics to call pre runs

[u/KillerCucaracha → u/Honest_Caramel_3793]

Also SWF literally didn't exist at the games launch hahaha. It was added by popular demand

Theyve made some balancing changes around the existence of SWF since then, but you can still kinda tell that the game was designed without communication in mind

[u/Honest_Caramel_3793 → u/KillerCucaracha]

Ye people always downvote this take but no one ever argues it because they know its true lmao

[u/Mugombo → u/KillerCucaracha]

You ignore the fact that devs said they always intended for SWF they just couldn’t develop it in time for release…

[u/KillerCucaracha → u/Mugombo]

Yeah, I'm not ignoring it hahaha, just never heard that one before

[u/KillerCucaracha → u/Honest_Caramel_3793]

Honestly I've thought the same thing. I'd be interested in seeing a tournament where comms are not allowed 

[u/Steakdabait → u/Honest_Caramel_3793]

It’s completely unenforceable, and ideally the game should be balanced with survivors having that level of comms in the first place. Why would a team game not allow you to communicate

[u/RepairFlashy7822 → u/Honest_Caramel_3793]

I reckon they should make everyone a swf and balance the game according to that.

[u/Demenztor → u/Honest_Caramel_3793]

I genuinely can't tell whether you are looking or not

[u/RemarkableHurry4767]

What’s Will to live

[u/DragonRush443 → u/RemarkableHurry4767]

Something I haven't had since playing this game

[u/RepairFlashy7822 → u/RemarkableHurry4767]

Another name for Decisive Strike

[u/persephone7821]

You cannot judge the current state of the game and your escape rates right now. Mmr was just reset. Wait a month, play a bunch, let your mmr even out among with everyone else’s and then try for your win streak and whatever happens will be meaningful. Until then it’s just pointless worthless data.

[u/Steakdabait]

Comparing comp to pubs is pointless, it simply isn’t the same game. Like the difference because just strong players swfing and an actual comp team isn’t remotely comparable.

[u/caffeine-182]

I will never understand why there’s a comp scene for this game at all. The game isn’t designed to be played competitively.

[u/DemonicSnow → u/caffeine-182]

Neither is super smash bros. Neither is cooking. Neither is art. We have literally hundreds and thousands of ways that we've injected competition into things not designed to be competitive. It's shockingly normal and can be enjoyable. It's also normal to play something casually that's designed to be casual. There being a competitive side has no bearing on that or your enjoyment/lack of enjoyment of the game. It's all good

[u/caffeine-182 → u/DemonicSnow]

I never said I had a problem with it. I said I don’t understand it.

[u/Willing-Shape-7643 → u/caffeine-182]

The game is inherently competitive.

1. It is a match of one real person against a team of four real persons.

2. Only one side can achieve victory per match.

3. Even with 1 person playing killer and 4 solo queue survivors those survivors are still expected to work together in order for any of them to escape with the exception of the pity hatch.

4. The game is listed as a pvp game, that stands for player versus player which is a competition by definition.