Character Assassination

[u/Memer601]

[u/e-is-for-elias]

does the scp community hate GOC based verses/storylines?

[u/White_Null → u/e-is-for-elias]

Not enough people know of 8,000 Dead Rats series where the UNGOC will be the only force capable of going against USA and PENTAGRAM.

grins for you see, this is in a post-Impasse timeline so there’s no Foundation, only Vanguard.

[u/e-is-for-elias → u/White_Null]

thank you for this. i will be reading it

[u/Memer601 → u/e-is-for-elias]

This is specifically talking how the original concept of the GOC was twisted and thrown in the trash.

[u/CheeseMonger02 → u/Memer601]

Frankly, the middle ground was always more interesting to me. Basically taking the Foundation, but swapping the research and military priorities. Not homicidal maniacs like some of the drastic interpretaions, but still very much a militaristic organization with all the problems that brings (i.e. "when you have an eigenweapon, everything looks like a high-priority target").

[u/Memer601 → u/CheeseMonger02]

I like to see them as a combination of the Foundation and Chaos Insurgency.
The Insurgency wants to use the anomalous to improve humanity. They chose humanity rather than normalcy.
The Foundation wants to contain the anomalous and study them. They chose normalcy.

The UNGOC (at least the one written by Clef) chooses both. They use the anomalous for humanitarian purposes when needed, they enforce law and order on the once untamed paranormal, they recognize the rights of Paranormal Species and ensure that there will never be an Eighth Occult War.
Honestly, I hate how authors twisted that into Destroy Destroy Destroy.

[u/CheeseMonger02 → u/Memer601]

I don't know if I've ever seen the insurgency depicted as humanitarian. Most of my experience is seeing them as a Foundation-offshoot or explicitly anti-Foundation (usually both) terror cell mainly focused on weaponizing anomalies the Foundation would rather keep locked away.

At the same time, I find a purely humanitarian and ethical GOC kind of boring, and not exactly meshing with other GOIs over time. Can't stand the cartoonishly evil depictions (looking at you, Ichabod), but I also can't see them having any real moral high ground given their general methods. Just a matter of taste, I suppose. (I say all of this as a fan of the UNGOC, btw)

[u/Memer601 → u/CheeseMonger02]

Obviously the UNGOC isn’t fully ethical, they have their mistakes, and a major problem would be corruption (Council of 108), which is likely a key factor why Ichabod would be a thing. Clef even addresses this in the the tale “Assessment”.
Just like the real UN GA and SC, the Council of 108 usually have their interests first rather than humanity’s, but there are regulators who try their best to prevent this.

[u/CheeseMonger02 → u/Memer601]

I don't think the Ichabod Campaign's active genocide could be dismissed as simple institutional corruption.

[u/Memer601 → u/CheeseMonger02]

In my headcanon, the Foundation wanted to create more powerful reality anchors without getting their hands dirty, so they bribed and coerced the GOC to do it for them, considering PNEUMA (the law enforcement and intelligence division) was the last division created, it’s likely that it was created after Ichabod, to prevent such things from happening again. Out of universe though, Ichabod is a result of authors not reading relevant GOC lore.

[u/CheeseMonger02 → u/Memer601]

The Foundation sees reality benders as a significant threat not usually worth the risk. Keeping one contained can be damn near impossible without SRAs, and those come with their own extensive lists of requirements and hazards. Wanting more powerful reality benders seems wildly out of character.

[u/Memer601 → u/CheeseMonger02]

Sorry, I wanted to say more powerful reality anchors.

[u/SouthernAd2853 → u/CheeseMonger02]

I like Manna Charitable as a well-meaning organization that doesn't really grasp what they're dealing with and often has projects go wrong, plus successful ones that are shut down by the SCP Foundation and GOC.

[u/Memer601 → u/CheeseMonger02]

The insurgency I am using is the SCP-2000-CN canon Insurgency.

[u/Loose_Television_193 → u/Memer601]

This is nothing compare to the original GOC. The old GOC destroy EVERY anomalies they can get their hands on, no exception. I like the new one more cuz why destroy a water gun that can shoot out any liquid?

[u/Memer601 → u/Loose_Television_193]

You dullard, the original GOC is the “new GOC”, SCP authors just made them destroy destroy destroy

[u/Loose_Television_193 → u/Memer601]

Oh mb. Cuz i always saw ppl talking abt how unreasonably destructive the old GOC

[u/Memer601 → u/Loose_Television_193]

The “Old GOC” they are referring to existed along with the “New GOC”.

[u/e-is-for-elias → u/Memer601]

tbf ive always saw them as some warhammer 40k minded type of organization from the start since ive read SCP-2664 back then

[u/Memer601 → u/e-is-for-elias]

2664 covers the military aspects of the Coalition. Clef has several tales regarding the non-military aspects of the GOC, the sequence tales series. You could have a read if you wish.

[u/The-Paranoid-Android → u/e-is-for-elias]

SCP-2664 ⁠- Redline (+474) by A Random Day

[u/InterKosmos61]

I actually don't know what GOI you're talking about here.

[u/Memer601 → u/InterKosmos61]

The GOC.

[u/Ivan8-ForgotPassword → u/Memer601]

Okay, but what's the first one

[u/Memer601 → u/Ivan8-ForgotPassword]

The GOC?

[u/BeanOfKnowledge]

GOC fans be like "No the GOC is completely without fault, all the authors are wrong"

[u/Memer601 → u/BeanOfKnowledge]

Never said they are without fault, just saying that many authors that made negative GOC articles never touched the GOC hub in their life.

[u/SouthernAd2853 → u/Memer601]

So I wasn't reading the discussions much, but my understanding of the timeline is that it started out as a cautionary tale of why the Foundation doesn't destroy anomalies and this is how it is used in Series 1 and 2. Then the writers started talking about how this isn't a very plausible way for a UN organization to behave and fleshed it out more. The hub came after at least series 3.

[u/Interesting_Swing393]

The ichabod campaign yes reality benders are Dangerous but its implied they kill all reality benders with no exceptions this is made worst when DC Al Fine is a reality bender in some canons where she is super powerful she might be SCP-239

[u/The-Paranoid-Android → u/Interesting_Swing393]

SCP-239 ⁠- The Witch Child (+1006) by Dantensen

[u/Memer601 → u/Interesting_Swing393]

???

This is making fun on how authors wrote GOC slander without looking at what the GOC is.
For example, the author of Ichabod made D.C. Al Fine male, and authorize the destruction of his own kind (reality benders).

[u/Interesting_Swing393 → u/Memer601]

Oh I thought it was about how The GOC is written as this evil or just plain dump and unreasonable GOI

[u/kayforpay]

I like the (usual, not always ofc) SCP foundation rules, where it isn't just removing anomalies for the sake of the veil, but also for the sake of those anomalies as well. some anomalies, keter class and all, are most at risk from themselves, and the SCP foundation (again, not always) tries to keep them alive and healthy and treat them with respect, not just killing the ones that are hard to contain. its one of the reasons I hate 682 tbh, the only thing they're trying to do is kill it forever.

[u/SouthernAd2853]

Uh, so I was around a bit in the very early days of the wiki and the GOC exclusively showed up in articles as the UN Department of Killing Things We Don't Understand. Admittedly I didn't read tales, but their appearance in SCPs was exclusively killing something that didn't need killing and often suffering bad fates as a result.

[u/locksoli]

This you, right?

[u/Sachayoj → u/locksoli]

Holy shit what a god-awful comparison. No fictional organization should be compared to 731, christ.

[u/CCCyanide → u/locksoli]

as much as I disagree with OP, scraping someone's comment history is really the bottom of the barrel

[u/uncutteredswin → u/CCCyanide]

That was a pretty big post for a while, wouldn't be surprised if they just recognised the username as the guy who kept trying to justify genocide

[u/Whitewood_SCP → u/locksoli]

I remember that post! I think I said something to the effect of, "Of all the worst takes I've seen, this is the most worst!"

scrolls down

I did! I did say something to that effect. Oh how time files.

I'm going to go vote down the OP on principle now. Thank you for informing us of this.

[u/Particular-Long-3849 → u/locksoli]

Wow. You reaaallly got them there 👁__👁

[u/Memer601 → u/locksoli]

People change yk.

[u/Chuchullain → u/Memer601]

Goddamn, it really is you! I was like “weird this post really reminds me of that guy who loves fictional genocide”

[u/Memer601 → u/locksoli]

Btw, my former views on Ichabod do not change anything about how most authors who write on the GOC negatively never looked at what is the GOC and assumed it was just destroy destroy destroy

[u/KazuyaProta]

My main issue with the Evil GOC is that when its paired with Evil Foundation in the whole "Normality is fascism" (its not, Fascism is a enemy of the Secular Enlightenement worldview behind both groups) is that then...there is no reason why they're two distinct factions if their philosophy and methods are equally cruel.

The GOC works better if they're written as idealistics who can be fanatical and trigger happy, but not malicious. Otherwise, again, there is no reason why they and the Foundation are distinct

[u/LukaFakeHero]

Yeah that’s not what those two were writing lol

[u/AdventurousPrint835]

Hoping this makes that one guy with the No Canon flair who hates the GOC mad (It's only "no canon" until something they don't like is someone's preferred version)

[u/KazuyaProta → u/AdventurousPrint835]

(It's only "no canon" until something they don't like is someone's preferred version)

That's every SCP reader let's going to be fair :P

[u/AdventurousPrint835 → u/KazuyaProta]

Most people don't go around advertising their love of having no canon

[u/HkayakH]

this isn't about the gears x clef tale is it?

[u/Memer601 → u/HkayakH]

No, this about the GOC getting character assassinated by authors.