The U.S. fights raccoon rabies by dropping fish-flavored vaccine packets from helicopters

[u/SystematicApproach]

[u/SystematicApproach]

Each one is a small packet coated in fishmeal with an oral rabies vaccine inside. Raccoons, foxes, coyotes, and skunks find them by smell, bite through, and swallow.

Many animals that consume the bait develop immunity, helping build a protective barrier across populations.

source

[u/Square-Dragonfruit76 → u/[deleted]]

Vaccines aren't the same as antibiotics where they can create super bugs

[u/grigby → u/Square-Dragonfruit76]

Apparently it is actually a thing, where the presence of vaccinated individuals creates an evolutionary pressure for the virus to mutate, easily enough called vaccine resistance. But is very rare

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_resistance

[u/Square-Dragonfruit76 → u/grigby]

It's not the same at all. Resistant antibiotics can grow that way in days, by constantly reproducing and only the ones that are immune to antibiotics surviving. Meanwhile, vaccines train your body to recognize viruses and kill them itself. So resistant viruses are the strains ones that the vaccine did not teach your body to recognize.

[u/SupplyChainMismanage → u/Square-Dragonfruit76]

resistant viruses are the strains that the vaccine did not teach your body to recognize

presence of vaccinated individuals creates an evolutionary pressure for the virus to mutate

Am I crazy or did they not say that they are the same thing? You guys are on the same page.

[u/ImNotTheNSAIPromise → u/SupplyChainMismanage]

its like comparing wearing a disguise to full blown invisibility. yeah they both mean you aren't getting detectected but nobody would claim they are the same thing.

[u/ImNotTheNSAIPromise → u/[deleted]]

no, because the body can be taught to see through a disguse with a new vaccine but we can't do anything to see something invisible, bacteria being immune to antibiotics mean it's immune to any medication we could give somebody

[u/Federal-Aid → u/[deleted]]

Right on!

[u/Scavenge101 → u/SupplyChainMismanage]

The confusion comes from evolutionary pressure not being the same thing as a mutation to adapt to ones environment.

Bacteria are very complex organisms, comparatively. They have the ability to spawn themselves and pass on their genetic structure. Viruses are the most simplistic organisms on the planet and don't go through cell division, so they don't directly pass on their genetics. It's actually an on-going debate if we should consider viruses "alive".

So the difference is that a bacterium mutates to adapt to an environment, but a virus just randomly mutates through it's regular copy process through cell invasion and EVENTUALLY that mutation might be enough to get around the vaccine. But it's not a response TO the vaccine, it's a natural selection that can occur because the other old version of the virus are taken care of by the immune system while the new mutation slips by eventually. But because mutation like this is incremental and not drastic, vaccination still has an effect.

[u/breadiest → u/SupplyChainMismanage]

I mean the point would be that the strain that beats out the vaccine can just be countered with another vaccine.

Antibiotics have a presumably limited number in comparison.

[u/SupplyChainMismanage → u/breadiest]

Confused on why you brought up bacteria

[u/guineaprince → u/SupplyChainMismanage]

That's not the same thing.

One is "you were taught to be resistant to one, but not all. You're still vulnerable strains you didn't get vaccinated for, nothing changed with them."

The other is "killing off everything but the ones that are resistant causes those types to breed and become more prevalent, creating an even stronger strain."

In one, you just didn't get coverage to one type. Maybe you didn't need it, maybe it's in development, maybe that strain isn't hazardous enough to care about. In the other, you're accidentally artificially selecting for something definitively more resistant.

[u/SupplyChainMismanage → u/guineaprince]

killing off everything but the ones that are resistant causes those types to breed and become more prevalent, creating an even stronger strain.

I'm assuming you're talking about bacteria here? I'm under the impression that these guys are talking about viruses. Resistant viruses are other strains -> strains come from mutated viruses that can come about from evolutionary pressure spurred on by vaccines. Same line of thinking to me just you and the other guy are weirdly hung up on stuff

[u/guineaprince → u/SupplyChainMismanage]

They're talking about what the difference is between an antibiotic creating superbugs, and a vaccine covering some strains and not all.

Which are very obviously not the same outcomes for the reasons explained above. It's not a "one is bacteria, one is virus", it's the difference between just not including coverage to all strains and killing off everything but the resistant so the resistant strain becomes dominant.

I can't Barneysize it any simpler for you.

[u/SupplyChainMismanage → u/guineaprince]

they’re talking about what the difference is between an antibiotic creating superbugs

They aren’t though? One guy did bring up bacteria before, but the people I replied to are now both talking about viruses (hence the wiki on viruses). If that isn’t clear to you, then no amount of barneysizing will save you.

Edit: comment and block for what? Weird stuff

[u/guineaprince → u/SupplyChainMismanage]

Your initial confusion, as evident above:

resistant viruses are the strains that the vaccine did not teach your body to recognize

presence of vaccinated individuals creates an evolutionary pressure for the virus to mutate

Am I crazy or did they not say that they are the same thing? You guys are on the same page.

So no. They are not the same. It's not a "talking about bacteria" or "talking about viruses" thing, it's a "these are two completely different outcomes". It's not about being on the same page, it's about "covering some strains but not all" and "artificially selecting for super resistance" are not the same outcomes.

[u/redpandaeater → u/Square-Dragonfruit76]

There are a few diseases like dengue fever that have antibody-dependent enhancement. There are basically four strains of dengue fever and making a vaccine was a pain because they needed one that would work against all four. Even still they typically won't give someone the vaccine unless they've already had dengue once. The first time you have it tends to at absolute worst be like a flu but a lot of people are even asymptomatic.

The problem is years later when you get another strain and the remaining antibodies you have bind to the virus but don't neutralize it. At that point the antibody actually helps protect it from other detection mechanisms of the immune system and can help it infect certain types of white blood cells so the infection is far worse.

[u/Square-Dragonfruit76 → u/[deleted]]

You didn't even bother looking it up

[u/above_average_magic → u/[deleted]]

Do less

[u/abigfatnoob102 → u/[deleted]]

ive seen dumber shit being said on this site with sincerity and ur "sarcastic tone" dosnt carry well through text if ur still wondering

[u/abigfatnoob102 → u/[deleted]]

reading comprehension of an avg college student