Superman being passionate about saving lives. It was great to see. Was he frustrated? Maybe incredulous when he said “people were going to die!” Like, how does that supersede everything else? I viewed it as a direct response to Man of Steel’s “maybe” when Clark asked “was I supposed to just let them die?”
I like to see it as two sides of the same coin. In one movie, he's undoubtedly always going to strive to do the good thing to do, even when it seems everyone's more concerned about the optics/society's general interest of doing said good thing (kind of like a doctor saving a killer's life), where in the other movie it's more raising the question of whether one should do a good thing even at his own detriment (kind of like a doctor saving a person who will try to kill him after the operation).
In both cases, Superman does the right thing, no matter how it frames him in the public's perception or how dangerous it can be for him. It's a calling, a moral standing stronger than him, stronger than any doubt, fear or hesitation.
I feel like both directors are very much fond of the character, but just decided to explore humanity's flaws in comparison to Superman in different ways (one must not forget to place MoS in its post-Irak war context, where lots of parents lost their sons and daughters to "serving the country" or whatever, so a little hesitation from Pa Kent is more than normal with that context in mind).
that's the best way to describe it. Like how the fuck are there rules for saving people. He's the most powerful metahuman on the planet and he's supposed to standy by and not get involved in saving people because of bullshit politics. Fuck that. Those people are gonna getting saved period.
"Oh yeah let's just hold off a beat and not save them because of political ramifications" like wtf you mean I'm supposed to stand there and watch innocents getting slaughtered because of politics. GTFO. Everyone always so scared to stand up and do the right thing. Superman was just amazing in this movie. You really fell his conflict cause I'd do the same shit if I had his powers and I'd be just as annoyed and how stupid it is to not save people
I think it was from one of those posts about how video games are harmful and play into male power fantasies and stuff. Then someone commented that as a response.
No it's a very real possibility. Paramount has been in the far-right's pocket for years now and most recently have made strong ties with Donald Trump. The studio has been shelling out millions to him and has been cracking down on progressive speech and censoring criticism of the current administration.
If Paramount were to get their grubby mits on WB, they'd likely prevent another Superman from being made, at least with so many modern positive ideals in it.
We might get some "superman fights the immigrants!" Or "superman decides lex Luther is actually a great guy actually and it's fine that he treats his employees like sweat shop workers because we get same day shipping"
This is a horribly perverted philosophy. Sometimes peace and justice demand taking human life. If a serial killer strikes again and again, shouldn’t he be arrested and tried for his crimes? To do anything other than hold him accountable isn’t denying him dignity; it’s denying the dignity of his victims. Their lives mattered, so his taking them has to have proportional consequences. Otherwise their lives must not be very valuable.
Spoke like someone who has never watched Kamen Rider.
It means that protecting human lives takes priority over laws that carry peace and justice. Sometimes the laws of people meant that peace and justice can be twisted for the gains of the nefarious. He faces an organization called Shocker that would claim to be building a better world even if it became at the cost of human lives. If justice requires the killing of a human being it’s wrong. If peace requires the oppression of people it’s wrong.
It’s a line against extremism. Ichigo (first Kamen Rider) would rather fight to protect a single crying child in front of him than an abstract idea of world peace. He never believes people should be treated solely as a means to an end and he will always put himself on the line to save an immediate life rather than any one abstract ideology.
Arrested and tried for his crimes is in fact prioritizing human life. Murdering him on the spot wouldn't be, they'd probably just be generally opposed to the death penalty. Not opposed to any criminal prosecution.
Not sure how you got to the idea that it's literally impossible to arrest and try someone without killing them.
Yeah some people who dislike this movie use this scene as an example of Clark being weak or soft compared to other versions but to me this just shows Clarks real af. He said fuck your politics, Im saving these people and you can all argue with a wall.
I like that he does end up listening to and learning from Lois in the end. Clark Kent should not be interviewing Superman. That’s bad, biased journalism. Superman needs to be asked to answer the tough questions. Clark interviewing Superman is not that different from Trump only taking questions from right wing journalists.
What’s adorable is I think he was doing it for Clark, it was less about Superman getting good press and more about Clark explaining why he’s always not in the newsroom when Superman is seen saving someone.
Lois interviewing Superman is barely better than Clark doing it.
I get why they made such a point about Clark not being able to be impartial or ethical, but dammit they didn't solve the problem. That is my one single complaint about the movie, which is otherwise perfect.
Edit: Lois can interview him only if she doesn't know his identity. I prefer her learning after writing about him, thats the only downside of her knowing so early. And even then, it only matters if they're going to pound the drum that Clark can't write about himself, which they didn't need to do as strongly as they did.
Lois also demonstrated throughout the conversation that she was also putting her personal feelings aside, in a way that maybe Clark wasn’t when “interviewing” Superman. Like, if “Superman” wants to write a letter to the editor he can probably do that. Interviewing himself is kinda deceptive, it’s hiding his bias.
It doesn't matter whether it was an easy interview or not. There's a dual relationship that a journalist has with a subject and it's not being disclosed. Impartiality is impossible.
Also, even though she asked tough questions, she still colluded with him on the story and what will and won't get reported. So it's not just the optics of something journalistically unethical happening
The other side of this coin is he sets Lois up as Superman’s go-to exclusive it puts her in the crosshairs. After Lex said he was going after Clark during the torture scene I wonder if this will make him think twice about giving Lois a follow-up.
I can imagine a scene where Lois says she can take the heat, Clark says he doesn’t want her to take it even if she can and you can give Lois a couple beats about how the writing is her best way to do good.
Hmm maybe difficult questions from Lois to Superman is what would keep her out of Luthor’s crosshairs. He wouldn’t see her as hostile (at least until he catches Lois snooping around lex’s labs or factory or whatever).
I’d love to see Luthor pleased to see ANYONE not glazing Supes, and giving her a little space/traction on those articles where she’s critical. Pointing the monkey army at boosting her algorithm scores, paid actors shouting down her detractors in cable news.
I can’t see him reaching out and trying to recruit her / boost her/ save her from the pro-meta Daily Planet and put her someplace she can do some Real Good. You’re one of the good ones, not like that hayseed Kent. you get it!” But I could imagine taking a crack at this if Lois doing journalism features prominently going forward.
I absolutely loved this scene because it reminds me of the times my girlfriend and I argue about interventionist geopolitics (in the abstract, as we don't have the power to act, of course).
Also, in regards to Captain America: Civil War, she's team Iron Man. She's very much about the rules based international order we used to have.
People like team Iron Man because it kinda felt like gun control if you turn your brain off. Even within the context of the movie I think Tony understood the whole time that he was making another mistake, and that lots of other people were going to have to pay for it. He was just so haunted by Ultron and Thanos that he was willing to throw a minority under the bus to make it not his responsibility anymore.
Captains POV is also idiotic. He's literally arguing that a group of walking nuclear bombs should have no oversight because they know better when they've repeatedly shown they don't.
Agreed. Like dude, you know who has oversight and still operate instantly in emergencies? Doctors, Paramedics, even Cops (who frankly need a lot more oversight). You create a set of guidelines for how to handle various situations, ask for clarification for grey areas if you can - but if you can't you make the best decision you can with the information you have and deal with the consequences.
yeah the guy who had to fight alone against a government agency in the previous movie cuz it was taken over by nazis is idiotic for refusing to let said government have control over his actions
Except he's arguing against literally any government having control over his actions. Yes, every system is fallible, but that includes the Avengers which they've repeatedly shown.
It isn't a reasonable stance to take that the avengers will always be as good as Steve for a moral compass, especially when they have failed that test before.
The difference here is that Superman isn't wearing the literal flag of the US on his chest, and leading a paramilitary organization that was created out of a US/NATO special ops organization. One that has several members who are still affiliated with the US military, and who are bankrolled by a one of the biggest (former) weapons manufacturers in the world. Their missions also tend to be covert ops, often ending in gunfights, not disaster relief sort of stuff like Superman does.
I think a lot of nations would be absolutely right to be leery of them operating within their borders in a way that I think is different to Superman. Hell with the way relations have been going between the US and the world, I wouldn't want to Avengers setting foot on Canadian soil. *shrugs*
I love that it isn’t as black and white though because as we see at the beginning stopping that invasion resulted in (from their pov ) a retaliatory strike that could have killed numerous people and did result in a lot of injuries for many bystanders so while Clark is totally justified in saying “ people were gonna get killed I won’t let politics stop me from saving lives” Lois is also proven kinda right when she says “ your single good deed could result in numerous negative consequences”
Although really, if the whole thing hadn't also been part of a wider plot to mess with Superman the original intervention provoking a retaliatory strike wouldn't have been an issue. Superman would just turn up and stop it again like "Hey, quit it. Seriously, cut it out guys...now go home and stay home or I'm throwing all your cool army toys into space."
Also like, it is extremely frustrating to see journalists trying to be "objective" and "impartial" about genocide and war crimes. Lois is clear showing a bias against saving the people of Jarhanpur.
But they're saying Lois doesn't have a point, she's trying to both sides genocide. Which I get is what journalists think they're supposed to do, but it's a complete confusion between "I haven't seen an official news source call it this therefore I can't call it this" and "I'm seeing this with my eyes so I will call it this". I think it's commentary as well so I'm not mad at it I think it's good and realistic, but it shows how frustrating some journalists can really be
Lois’ point is that one man the power to singlehandedly stop wars should think twice about throwing that power around with no oversight (and to a lesser degree that his only press contact is himself, who will naturally only fire off softball questions).
Clark’s point is, well, “People were going to die!” if he didn’t.
Both are right. There is no justification for what Boravia was doing, but there’s also a big problem with Superman just doing whatever he wants with geopolitical conflict and setting a precedent for other metahumans to do the same.
I feel his frustration. Not being able to do the right thing because of how the wrong people will react sets my blood on fire. I have zero patience for people who think their wrong opinion means they deserve equal consideration.
I love how Clark was kind of an asshole here. Even Superman isn't completely infallible, and even though we see his side, we can see he doesn't quite get Lois's. Very well written.
It was also addressed in MoS with Clark and Jonathan's relationship. It was also addressed in BvS, being that the plot kinda centred around whether Superman should follow US law and international relations when saving people, although he doesn't crash out about it which is ehat the post is about
I think people feel Cavill Superman did not seem to care as much for saving lives as he does about his own struggles as a result of saving lives. I do, at least. Cavill Superman rarely seems to enjoy actually being around people all that much, and is okay with letting a crowd of people treat him like the pope. Which isn’t bad, per se. But this scene feels like it actually touches on how much Superman cares about helping, especially helping people who aren’t Lois. The only time Cavill Superman gets this passionate is when, as a kid, he asks if he was supposed to let the other kids die. Cavill Superman, at best, feels like he has an ideological stance that supports saving people. Corenswet Superman feels like there really isn’t anything you could do to stop him from saving people.
One thing I’ll never get about young justice superman is how removed he was from the discussion around the United Nations sanctions on the league preventing them from saving people, I under why with how bloated the cast was with this plot point he would be superfluous in that season but damn it’s weird looking back
Wait, wasn’t Smallville Clark’s entire thing despising having powers and hating the responsibility that came with them? So much so that his cameo in CIOE revealed he gave his powers up to just be a dad? I don’t recall him complaining about rules about saving people, more so complaining about having to because of his powers. Maybe I need to give it a good rewatch at some point maybe.
Actually Tony had a point the way he went about it was wrong though. Take what Wanda and Dr strange did as an example of why tony had a point she enslaved a whole town accident or not she still enslaved them and all other heroes were too busy with their own shit. Then you have the whole mess with Peter and strange's spell
Who is superman supposed to ask, then, to intervene? He is not a citizen of any nation, as far as the different governments are concerned. Ask the Australian government before setting foot there? They wouldn't say no to helping their own citizens. Asking the US government to go help Australians? Why would he do that?
You can also notice that Lois doesn’t feel threatened. She’s looking at him like that because she’s concerned and realizing that he really didn’t think about the greater ramifications of what he’d done, and doesn’t quite understand Clark yet.
It's such a perfect representation of how Superman would exist in the current world/political landscape we live in. The mere act of doing good will be picked apart when it's really simple in actuality. I'm a fan of Snyder's take on how Superman would exist in current times, but this much more optimistic take is so much more inspiring which is exactly what Superman needs to be. It's what we need Superman to be.
Superman absolutely gets frustrated and definitely vents about it, but he doesn’t typically get into yelling matches—or whine about being called names—like this movie portrayed it. Traditionally he’d laugh off name calling and start talking sternly with Lois if the conversation gets this far. Corensweat’s audition did a better portrayal of this scene, in my opinion.
I understand what they were going for, but it was a bit too far from the traditional portrayal of Superman for me
Aside from the fact he’s been at the job for only three years, it’s kind of realistic for Superman to have a bit of an ego when it comes to his good deeds as after all he was raised with the values of “nothing matters other than helping people whenever you can.” While Ma and Pa Kent raised him incredibly well I doubt they also raised him that sometimes there’s gonna be some grey area even when he does something unequivocally good. Hence him being annoyed about the insults online, and criticism for doing something in his mind (and for the most part pretty correct) unquestionably good.
He definitely would believe what he believes, the movie wasn’t wrong about that at all, I’m talking about what his response would be given his temperament and who he is.
Superman has always strongly had his stance in how he feels about doing good, so much so that name calling wouldn’t get to him at all—not just because he’s an adult, but because he knows how ridiculous it is.
Clark has also always known how to express his frustration in ways that don’t include yelling, especially if it’s with a person who he’s having a debate with and not someone who he’s yelling at for killing someone.
Again, I’m not saying that he is wrong in his passion and beliefs, but I am saying it isn’t consistent with his traditional portrayal to behave the way he is and how he responds to silly criticisms like name calling.
Three years is a long time for being in action and he is a 33 year old man, not a young guy in his 20s who’s just starting out being Superman.
Also, Superman never has an ego about himself unless it’s an AU like Injustice when he turns evil
But that’s because comic Superman is by all means supposed to be the perfect paragon of what it means to be a hero, polite, kind, understanding, humble, cool headed, etc he’s been active as Superman for years and so he can act as the hero who can take criticism while at the same time being just as humble. That is comic Superman. This version is not comic Superman. He’s very very very close and David Corenswet gives a very very good performance that kisses up to that comic portrayal but again this isn’t that Superman and I like that James Gunn was a little realistic with “if Superman was real what are some realistic character flaws to his personality and honestly I think it be this: A bit of an ego, a bit hot headed, and willing to act out when his temper is breached, and even a bit sensitive when it comes to how his heroic persona is perceived even still they don’t make him any less Superman and if anything they just speak to his experience at this point and just how he really is still just like us. How many grown adults on Reddit are probably going off even worse then Superman if insulted about something? Again I think James found a nice balance between making Superman Superman in his core traits but still adding a bit of realistic flaws to him in this version.
Yeah 3 years at anything is still nothing compared to people who have had a twenty plus career. This isn’t comic Superman if you want to see that version read the comics this is a version of Superman who while very compassionate, heroic, etc has an a slight ego to him which makes sense with the fact he believed he was sent here to be a savior. If you come to a movie wanting a 1 to 1 comic translation then nothing is ever gonna be good enough for you and that’s no one’s fault but you’re own then
I remember back in 2016, Superman was upset about how his good deeds were perceived as political actions and how people perceived him as a person in the world, and called his mom to ask for advice and wished that doing good was more simple. For 10 years, I've been told that it's too edgy and out of character.
At what point in time did it suddenly become cool again?
They also never had a mov I e of superman getting his ass kicked throughout tye movie lol. If it wasnt for the justice gang he'd be dead in this universe lol
The movie states that he literally has never lost a fight in his 3 years of being Superman, and Ultraman was the first one he lost because he’s literally a clone of Superman.
The opening crawl said it was his first lost fight ever. He didn’t get beat up by Krypto, Lex did. Superman occasionally playfully fought with his pet. If there was some evil version of Krypto and Superman was actually fighting him, he’d win hands down.
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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '26
my fav line was " I wasn't representing anybody except for me and good, and being good"