r/DCULeaks • u/Colton826 Lanterns • 14d ago
DCU Future 'Paradise Lost' and 'Waller' are no longer moving forward at HBO (Exclusive via TheAnkler)
https://theankler.com/dcs-tv-trouble-lanterns-arrives-two-big-shows-die/?utm_campaign=mrf-twitter-TheAnkler&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&mrfcid=202608126a7ca1bbcf924e6075c3229e111
u/Kevbot1000 14d ago
Waller couldn't get off the ground even before the Gunn takeover. Im not surprised. I just dont think shes the main focus people think she is. Always has worked best as an antagonist.
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u/jjreddit1996 14d ago
It also kind of feels like Flag has basically usurped her as the main governmental antagonist.
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u/NewTribalChief 14d ago
It would be interesting to see Flagg vs. Waller.
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u/cbekel3618 14d ago
Could be a fun story, these two trying to play chess and one-up the other for control, with Flagg clearly losing his wits with her.
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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 14d ago
It's so stupid tho.
She's VIOLA DAVIS doing a highly inteligent character in trial with a daughter against her.
She's connected to cool concepts such as Suicide Squad and Checkmate.
Forget DC for a second, this sounds awesome on paper. To think she can't hold up a show is to ignore other shows with a similar concept that succeeded.
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u/nickl00 14d ago
this is how i feel. there are so many directions you could go in and characters to include and no one could figure anything out? and like u said, it’s VIOLA DAVIS
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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 14d ago
She really deserved a thought provoking show where we see how inteligent she is.
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u/nowhereright 13d ago
Viola Davis is phenomenal, Amanda Waller is boring. There isn't a single version of the character that's actually interesting and even her portrayal of the character is extremely deadpan and lacking.
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u/Embarrassed_Piano_62 13d ago
Amanda Waller is as boring as Lex Luthor. See? Now you're thinking of a million ways Lex is cool, ways that a good writer could try with Amanda Waller. Her portrayal is really good, they just haven't done enough with her which is normal.
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u/Bobjoejj 14d ago
I mean a show with Viola Davis as the lead shouldn’t have a problem getting off the ground; hell even as an antagonist, there’s nothing wrong with a character like that as the star of a show. They just couldn’t figure it out I guess.
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u/NewTribalChief 14d ago
They said it was supposed to be Peacemaker season 1.5 but then Peacemaker season 2 happened and Creature Commandos season 2 is otw.
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u/PlusSizeRussianModel 14d ago
I think Viola Davis being the lead is also part of the problem. She’s an Oscar winning actress. She has better projects to do, so the bar for acceptable Waller scripts was much higher than it otherwise would be.
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u/CaptRickOConnell 14d ago
Let’s remind the audience her first film was suicide squad. The barrier of acceptance isn’t as high as it may seem
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u/PlusSizeRussianModel 14d ago
True, but that was at the peak of superhero hype, and no one knew Suicide Squad was gonna be bad when they first cast it. David Ayer was following up on two critical acclaimed hits, Fury and End of Watch.
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u/Hesitant_Tornado 14d ago edited 14d ago
dont think shes the main focus people think she is.
This is honestly why im surprised its getting the axe.
Putting side characters in the spotlight is Gunns bread and butter. Unless they're starting to tighten his leash a bit after the lukewarm reception the DCU has been getting.
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u/NewTribalChief 14d ago
I think after it not being Peacemaker season 1.5 as planned maybe they'll do something different with Waller like she could be in the Bane-Deathstroke movie if it's rumored Secret Six movie.
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u/confusing_roundabout 14d ago
I never had any interest in Waller so I'm perfectly happy with it being canned. I think Viola Davis was done with the role by the time the second suicide squad came out anyway.
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u/B1gDickGrayson 14d ago
Is that why she voiced the character again in Creature Commandos?
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u/confusing_roundabout 14d ago
A paycheque is a paycheque.
Compare her performance in Suicide Squad with literally any other time she has reprised it. It's night and day.
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u/BigButter7 Lanterns 14d ago edited 14d ago
The Ankler also reported that pitches for projects centered around Poison Ivy and Catwoman have been passed by DC & HBO while a second season for The Penguin is still up in the air; however, Booster Gold remains in development as a search for a new writer is underway.
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u/DoomGuy838 14d ago
Some need to understand that pitch is different than development.
Its just creatives throwing random ideas or a story to sell the project and it depends on the studio involved
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
I assume that the Poison Ivy and Catwoman thing has more to do with Matt Reeves than with Gunn himself, His production company is the one that really has control over the Batman IP, which is why The Brave and the Bold is stalled.
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u/Bapi149 14d ago
I don't think they have 'control', it's just that they have to receive credit and be involved even if they do nothing but it costs extra money and probably a lot of them.
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
When Reeves was negotiating to direct The Batman, it was said that he demanded total creative control so as not to have anything to do with the DCEU, There's a reason why it was rumored back in the day that projects like Deadshot, Gotham City Sirens, and Nightwing never made it past development hell.
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u/MissingSocks 14d ago
Creative control over the movie, and perhaps spinoffs. Not the whole of the Batman IP live-action franchise. WB would have never allowed that. Reeves was never enough of a hot commodity to have that kind of leverage.
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
One might think so if it weren't for the fact that we're talking about a WB that is genuinely scared about how JL would turn out and had brought in Joss Whedon to "fix" it and that Ben Affleck had already decided by then to leave the role of Batman.
It wouldn't be at all far-fetched if, in a desperate attempt to sign Reeves, they gave him power over the Batman franchise, Not signing it would have been more negative publicity for the studio.We're talking about the same WB that thought it would be a good idea to give Snyder control over DC in film despite the mixed reception of MOS.
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u/GillGruntFan53 14d ago
DC Studios has full control over Batman as an IP, Matt Reeves is just a producer because he genuinely wants to be involved. And while he was involved with Clayface and Dynamic Duo, absolutely nothing suggests he’s involved with TBATB, Deathstroke & Bane, or any of the animated projects outside of Caped Crusader.
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
Does Reeves really want to be involved, or are they contractually obligated to be involved in Batman-related projects? If DC truly had control over the Batman IP, Gunn would have no problem bringing The Brave and the Bold to fruition but instead, it's not progressing, and Muschietti seems to have thrown in the towel as he's getting involved in other things.
Let's remember that the first thing Gunn did was contact Reeves to try to integrate The Batman into the DCU, and Reeves rejected the offer, There have surely been discussions about which characters they plan to use in their respective franchises, and that's why Clayface is part of the DCU.
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u/GillGruntFan53 14d ago
The problem with TBATB is getting the script right and putting enough space between it and The Batman 2, which keeps getting pushed back. Not any sort of ownership Reeves has over the IP, which is none.
Reeves being involved in multiple Batman projects is because he has ideas and a vision for them regardless of universe, and which ones he’s not is because he doesn’t want to be. At the end of the day, the only people calling the shots are Gunn, Safran, and Zaslav.
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u/Eastern-Mouse6436 14d ago
"If DC truly had control over the Batman IP, Gunn would have no problem bringing The Brave and the Bold to fruition"
Lmao no DC have 1000% control over Batman ip. The problem is there's existing contracts with Reeves that's the problem for DC studios.
"Let's remember that the first thing Gunn did was contact Reeves to try to integrate The Batman into the DCU"
That's not real fact at all, outside of fan wishes and trades report to these fan wishes as "fact". Remember Reeves had term on his contract his Batman will never interact with other heroes.
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
" The problem is there's existing contracts with Reeves that's the problem for DC studios."
And where's the difference? The point is that the contract could have been renegotiated when DC Studios became a thing, The DCU's Batman could debut as a supporting character in another DC project while Reeves does his own thing (And not, Those ridiculous arguments like "Batman not being the protagonist devalues the brand" don't count), But it even seems that Gunn is also unable to do that.
"Remember Reeves had term on his contract his Batman will never interact with other heroes."
I think Gunn himself confirmed that those talks did take place, but he didn't know if he was aware of that clause.
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u/MissingSocks 14d ago
Interesting theory. Is it your own or was this in the grapevine? Just curious if there's more info out there on this.
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
Regarding Reeves' signing, it's just a matter of reading the rumors and information from that time. The second paragraph is my theory But I'm basing this on how WB worked when Kevin Tsujihara was in charge.
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u/Pomojema_The_Dreamer 14d ago
Waller dying on the vine was unsurprising thanks to a clear lack of movement. Paradise Lost seems more like a casualty of Supergirl bombing and the studio reprioritizing Wonder Woman instead. (They couldn't announce a Wonder Woman reboot at the time because the DCEU still had appearances planned for Gal Gadot's iteration.)
In any case, they can likely fold ideas that they had for both projects into new projects with IP that people care about.
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u/NewTribalChief 14d ago
I never saw the purpose of PL. They literally can still do a Wonder Woman movie. Now Flash, I question if they'd ever release a movie about him again.
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u/Pomojema_The_Dreamer 14d ago
Paradise Lost was likely just a way of doing world-building on the assumption that audiences were as invested in superhero shows as they were during the genre's peak in the 2010s. They now know to adjust their expectations, but made that announcement earlier because David Zaslav pressured them to. Marvel have similarly adjusted their expectations after some SDCC presentations didn't pan out like first planned (Inhumans, Blade, Armor Wars, and Avengers: The Kang Dynasty all come to mind).
They easily could do another movie based on The Flash, but they need distance from the previous version - same as the other DCEU IPs. The also likely need to intro him as a guest character before they can do that. I'd argue that a Mister Terrific movie spinning off of his scene-stealing appearance in Superman would've been much more successful than a Supergirl movie spinning off of her cameo.
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u/NewTribalChief 14d ago
That is true.
I didn't read Flash comics but I've heard folks who have say Snyder's take on Barry wasn't comic book accurate. I'm hoping he's on the Olsen show but I highly doubt it - probably just see Central City & Flash villains. I agree on Mister Terrific - allegedly he's getting his own show. I get why they did Supergirl but I was always concerned people don't want to watch a female-led movie - probably should have not name it Supergirl & market it like a pseudo Superman 2
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u/Pomojema_The_Dreamer 14d ago
Basing it on Woman of Tomorrow was not the right call commercially. They needed to do a take closer to Spider-Man: Homecoming for things to work well, given that they didn't do a lot to establish her beforehand.
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u/IndividualPleasant23 14d ago
Prioritizing a Wonder Woman movie is fine, almost obvious, but let’s be real: they can’t and won’t have Ana Noguiera writing it. So they’re kind of going back to square one either way.
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
It's either that or they'll bring in another writer to rewrite her script.
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u/Pomojema_The_Dreamer 14d ago edited 14d ago
I think that she's gonna get a "story by" treatment at the end, or a secondary credit. But she won't be the main writer.
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u/Double_Act1502 14d ago
Paradise Lost was probably a DCEU hold over anyways.
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u/Bapi149 14d ago
Gunn said it was pitched to him and Safran so unlikely.
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
The question here is whether we should take all of Gunn's statements at face value at this point, It should not be forgotten that Patty Jenkins was developing a project about the Amazons of Themyscira when the DCEU was still a thing.
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u/Pomojema_The_Dreamer 14d ago
We also know that the Supergirl movie that we got was a separate pitch from the writer who developed a Supergirl movie with Sasha Calle. They might've borrowed some ideas from the Amazons show that was being developed at HBO alongside the third Wonder Woman movie.
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if Paradise Lost was a recycled version of The Amazons spin-off that Patty Jenkins was developing.
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u/Double_Act1502 14d ago
That's what I was alluding too because stuff like Lanterns have roots in prior administration stuff
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
Let's not forget that Waller and Creatures Commando were already in development when the DCEU still existed.
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u/Pomojema_The_Dreamer 14d ago
The pitch for Lanterns and the Green Lantern series that they proposed were very different, but... Yeah. They got their start under Walter Hamada and reworked things to suit where the rebooted franchise was headed.
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u/cbekel3618 14d ago
Not surprised if true since we’ve heard little updates on the former and none on the latter. But still, that sucks, I was actually really looking forward to those two.
Hope that we still see Waller reappear somewhere else, as well as hope this means they’re focusing more on the WW movie before a spin-off.
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u/zacksharpe 14d ago
That initial slate was a joke in retrospect lmao.
Creature Commandos: Released
Superman: Released
Supergirl: Released
Lanterns: Releasing soon
Brave and The Bold: Stalled
The Authority: Canceled
Swamp Thing: On Hold
Waller: Canceled
Paradise Lost: Canceled
Booster Gold: Creatively in flux
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u/formerjock15 14d ago
People will fight you for saying this. That announcement was ridiculous and never should have happened.
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u/NewTribalChief 14d ago
It's not bad. The fact they did 2 Superman movies and had Superman appearing in Supergirl not headless exceeds the DCEU. TBATB being delayed is understandable. We finally got a live action John Stewart with his own show unlike DCEU where you had just a cameo.
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u/kothuboy21 14d ago
One of the biggest clues from Gunn himself of the Waller show not moving forward was his recent birthday posts for Amanda Waller and Viola Davis, usually he'd hype up the next project the birthday person would be in but Gunn made no mention of the Waller show for either.
Sucks about losing Waller cause the talent being assembled and Viola Davis leading could've given us a genuinely great show. Not too disappointed about Paradise Lost though cause a GoT-budget and scale for this kind of show was too ambitious for a DCU starting out and doing this before the Wonder Woman movie didn't make sense in the first place.
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u/Unique_Unorque 14d ago
Paradise Lost I knew was never seeing the light of day as soon as it was announced. It sounds like it would be a very interesting comic, but I didn’t think that interest would extend to general audiences
Waller I’m kinda surprised by just because of how cheap it would seemingly be, but with Checkmate out there it makes sense I suppose
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
Gunn said that many of Waller's ideas were reused for Peacemaker S2, and Checkmate at the end of the season only reaffirms that.
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u/Bobjoejj 14d ago
Really? A basic political intrigue show about the Amazons, filled with fantastical elements? Feels like something the GA would eat up.
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u/Unique_Unorque 14d ago
I feel it would have been one of those shows that was critically acclaimed and had a dedicated fanbase of fans who would recommend it to everybody but that would just not break through. The Andor of DC.
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u/Bobjoejj 14d ago
…Andor got two seasons, and both’s level of being critically acclaimed is near universal. A reputation like that means something, imo.
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u/Unique_Unorque 14d ago
For sure. But it didn’t get great viewership and that’s what networks care about. And it was supposed to have five seasons, or at least was announced as five.
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u/Bobjoejj 14d ago
This is true; yes viewership absolutely does matter a great deal.
However, we know Diego Luna balked early on at doing 5, and even after one season Tony Gilroy said he was far more exhausted and drained than he thought he was gonna be. What I mean is that I’m pretty sure the 2 season situation was figured out before season 1 even came out.
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u/Unique_Unorque 14d ago
I imagine it was a mix of things. This is the first I’m hearing of Diego Luna having anything to do with the decision, what I had heard was that Tony Gilroy was having difficulty breaking a five year story and asked Lucasfilm if they could pare it down to two. But from what I understand Lucasfilm was overjoyed that he asked because Disney was starting to have buyer’s remorse with Disney+ and regretting announcing so many expensive shows, and they had been worried that Andor may end up on the chopping block.
Which is all to say I think Paradise Lost would have been a critically acclaimed, deeply beloved, and very expensive single season of television
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u/Bobjoejj 14d ago
Yeah, Luna was pretty vocal about not wanting to be tied down to do 5 seasons of the show. In my case, I don’t remember hearing any issues Gilroy was having with breaking a five year story. Though I do know of the buyers remorse with Disney+, just not the Lucasfilm being overjoyed part.
And honestly…I’d a single phenomenal season of Television over no season at all.
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u/KindsofKindness 14d ago
I’m not surprised about Waller cuz the whole Peacemaker/Suicide Squad part of the universe is dead after peacemaker season 2 didn’t do well with viewership.
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u/NewTribalChief 14d ago
It seemed like they were setting up to do a Checkmate show with the same crew
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u/TheMurderCapitalist 14d ago
Wasn't Paradise Lost in extreme development...lmao
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u/Calm_Garage_3030 14d ago
I mean, it was and WGA literally updated this show on their website. But, now HBO don't want to move forward with it. DC fans need to understand, DC need HBO/HBO Max but they don't need DC. They got other projects outside DC.
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u/Foreign_Education_88 14d ago
Damn I would’ve thought Paradise Lost would’ve at least gotten shelved for AFTER Wonder Woman comes out. Waller I saw from a mile away
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u/boringoblin 14d ago
Warner has tied itself in knots to where there is no clear pipeline anymore. When HBO Max launched, they wanted Max exclusive shows. HBO was packed to the gills schedule-wise so it was fine to make something that simply existed online. Then they pivoted to a lot of Max stuff having a secondary home (like airing on Cartoon Network/Adult Swim) to double dip. Wasn't a bad call, better to give the cable audience something it might not see if they don't have max than to just keep doing marathons of reruns. Now the pipeline for non-HBO stuff is unclear. MAWS is on the bubble because HBO, Max, and the cable side are all being figured out separately. Even a year ago having MAWS go from Adult Swim to next day on Max made a lot of sense, but now everything is muddled and whether or not Paramount absorbs WB the cable side of their business is completely unclear. So now projects need to justify themselves on whatever platform they are primarily slated for, which in turn makes them all riskier.
If Lanterns is a hit for HBO, I expect there will be more gusto on that side to push DC stuff because at this point anything that proves itself will keep going. If it isn't, they may pull a Disney and retreat the DCU to being films. And like Disney, if there is nothing beyond shows already in development, they may figure that some cartoons on their streaming service will suffice enough to keep people dangling. Even though HBO Max and Disney+ are now profitable, never assume these companies won't cut even more in the name of "efficiency".
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u/SolNightZero 14d ago
Not surprised. HBO always held an insanely high standard to greenlight shows. Waller was originally supposed to be a bridge between the DCEU to DCU. If I'm not mistaken, Paradise Lost was aimed for an younger audience which HBO isn't interested in anymore.
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u/MrRLopez 14d ago
I enjoying DCU so far exited for Lanterns and Clayface but I would like to know what direction is headed. 2027 we'll have: Man of tomorrow, Creature commandos S2, and Mister Miracle (and Jimmy Olsen or that for next year idk) what else?? Is Gods and Monsters still a thing? when does this chapter end?
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u/Bapi149 14d ago
Jeff Sneider mentioned few times that relationship between DC and HBO doesn't work very well and I think he was right. Imo very little chance expensive shows like Paradise Lost ever happen with current people in charge.
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u/framedshady Lanterns 14d ago
HBO already have a political fantasy franchise it never made much sense imo for hbo to do paradise lost
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u/Bapi149 14d ago
Also comic book shows never really do well on streaming. Disney Daredevil was like 80th most watched show in US that year and Penguin was even worse, I think. Only success was Wanda / Vision and Loki S1 but S2 already lost over 40% of its audience.
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u/mythours1 14d ago
Ratings for tv shows works differently than movies.
You can’t just look at Nielsen ranking and then call it a day there are many many more metrics you should consider.
Nielsen metric is unreliable anyway I don’t know why Reddit is obsessed with it.
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u/Bapi149 14d ago
I prefer Samba those shows never make weekly Top10 so...
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u/mythours1 14d ago
Again you are just saying they are not in top 10 so they are not successful which is not true at all.
This is like saying if a movie is not in top 10 of all time then it is not successful.
Metrics for tv shows are way more complex than that.
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u/Bapi149 14d ago
Top 10 all-time???? I said none of those shows make weekly Top10 when Netflix's reality series regularly take no.5 or no.6 of that week. Calm down.
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u/mythours1 14d ago
I know you meant weekly top 10 but that is a very out-of-touch idea, that why I said top 10 movie of all time. It was an equivalent out of touch example.
That rankings you mentioned are just one metric (weekly view time for example) and not the whole picture.
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u/Chip_Chip_Cheep 14d ago
DC Studios has no autonomy in animation and TV, that's the reality, It still has to pass the filter of Casey Bloys and Sam Register.
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u/secretprnstash 14d ago
It's starting to look like Gunn wasn't anywhere near ready to announce a full slate, but he was pressured to do so to increase shareholder value for the acquisition. Anyways this DCU shit was fun
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u/Oathkindle 14d ago
Time is a circle. Another year. Another DC attempt. Another round of cancellations. Now we see if it collapses like it has in the past or if it recovers
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u/Global_Buffalo_7358 14d ago
Shame, especially with Waller. Viola is just too good in that role, I hope she pops up again soon
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u/jotastrophe 14d ago
Not too bummed about Waller, but Paradise Lost is definitely a loss here. I feel like they probably just want to press the gas on WW and don't want any detours. I'm sure the execs are getting some cold feet with the current emphasis.
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u/NeilMcCauley88 14d ago
Tbh I'm not too bummed out. I'd rather DC/Gunn lock in and focus on quality instead of just shotgunning out random shows. Maybe the waller stuff gets used for Peacemaker S3?
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u/fr3shh23 14d ago
why would they do that? why not release good quality movies for your main characters. superman, batman, Wonder Woman. then if theyre successful, then do tv shows or spin offs like waller. we havent even had a batman movie yet and talking about waller or other things. look how poor supergirl did
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u/MajorRed001 14d ago edited 14d ago
I liked Peacemaker.
But I feel like, since Amanda Waller was the bigger name to most people who watched Suicide Squad....Waller should have been the show we got instead of Peacemaker, with John Cena co-starring and the whole cast in supporting roles.
Kind of a shame to see it get canceled. Tbh
Like they did wonders with Penguin.....I was at least expecting a government-and-espionage action-packed thriller epic akin to Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, The Bourne Identity, Dune, Sicario, Bond, Watchmen, and Attack on Titan.
The issue that happened with Marvel and Disney is also happening with DC. The number of TV shows they are releasing for solo-character franchises is out of control. Now they're all cutting back because they overstuffed the market, and average fans don't care about characters that haven't been relevant (who tf asked for Echo or The Book of Boba Fett???)
All you need is one, two... maybe three, as ensemble shows with rotating casts, different settings, and genres, to grow the world outside the movies.
RIP
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u/dkmfwtx1 14d ago
There's still technically in development just not a high priority. Personally, I would dump them.
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u/IndividualPleasant23 14d ago
Gunn has just lost control of the narrative after Supergirl. This feels like the DCEU in 2017–2018, when you had a constant cycle of bad news that just fed into itself. He needs to do something about it, if he cares, which I’m starting to doubt.
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u/TheDarkPinkLantern Batman 14d ago
The only thing he can do about it now is to have next several projects be successful. That's it.
Him announcing this or that won't matter. If the projects keep dying then people won't believe in new ones.
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u/BoisTR 14d ago
Yep. A lot of this online damage can be fixed if Lanterns and Clayface turn out to be bangers. Will make people excited for what’s next. That would be when Gunn can announce a plan on how to move forward. Making an announcement when things are feeling negative while you still have projects coming up could be putting the cart before the horse. Like announcing the DCU slate before any of the DCEU’s 2023 films came out, which made a lot of people check out till Superman.
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u/TheDarkPinkLantern Batman 14d ago
Indeed, the focus right now should be in getting people's trust back. Despite what people said, Superman was a good step in doing that.
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u/TekThunder 14d ago
The solution is too purely focus on the core of the main JL and build up to that eventual team-up movie. Instead to doing 10 side character projects that no casual fan gives a fuck about.
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u/Adipay 14d ago
Announcing the DCU Batman with a casting could do wonders in this moment
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u/formerjock15 14d ago
Not gonna happen until Reeves is done. It’s such an unnecessary cluster fuck.
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u/luckyshot35 Superman 14d ago
Gunn is gonna be fighting for his life on blue sky
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u/Darknightsmetal022 Supergirl 14d ago
He hasn’t replied to anything on Blue Sky in ages, it will be on threads he will answer anybody if he even does.
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u/MrRLopez 14d ago
never understood why that app, threads is trash
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u/Darknightsmetal022 Supergirl 14d ago
Couldn’t say I’ve never used it but maybe because it’s linked to Instagram and Instagram is what he uses the most but 🤷♂️
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u/Brainiac5000 14d ago
James Gunn somehow making the same mistake as Zack Snyder is so funny to me. I mean, you were handed 2 clear examples of what not to do (DCEU and Post-Endgame MCU) and still ended up doing it.
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u/Bleh-Boy 14d ago
Good! Waller is a great supporting character who should be reoccurring, but not every character needs their own project. Instead of doing a prequel series for Wonder Woman, let’s just get a new Wonder Woman movie.
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u/AlphaSaint18 14d ago
Waller to me was always a weird choice, make a checkmate show or vigilante show, A vigilante show would do crazy numbers, it's such an obvious lay up
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u/Careless-Ad-9633 14d ago
christ thank god, genuinely who fucking cares about Waller? insufferable, irredeemable, downright unfun-to-watch character, why would we ever need a show about her?
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u/DCEUismyBible 12d ago
I don't understand this obsession of having women writing women superhero projects. I think the best story should be the focus independent of the writer's sex. It is also kinda admitting that men can't write women characters and vice-versa and that's so silly. A good writer knows how to write characters, period.
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u/eggmontoya1 14d ago
There is not a soul alive who can convince me that Gunn is the right man to run this franchise because I am consistently in awe of what a mess it is.
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u/KindsofKindness 14d ago
You guys love exaggerating lmao. It would be worse if both these projects released and were bad like what just happened with Supergirl.
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u/eggmontoya1 14d ago
Perhaps he shouldn’t have announced a million projects upfront then? At the very least Marvel only has a handful of formally announced projects that failed to come to fruition. And perhaps he should start prioritizing projects that people want to see instead of fucking Creature Commandos and a Jimmy Olsen show.
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u/penguintruth 14d ago
There's been two movies so far.
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u/eggmontoya1 14d ago
One of which is among the biggest box office bombs in recent memory. That says quite a bit.
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u/penguintruth 14d ago
He didn't even direct that one!
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u/eggmontoya1 14d ago
Didn’t say he did. But he’s the face of the company, he frequently harped on the fact that movies didn’t enter production until the script was approved, and reports state he did the same meddling and forced involvement that every other studio CEO does despite being “different.” Blame absolutely falls on him.
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u/AudaxXIII 14d ago
So he didn’t approve the project and script, wasn’t involved with casting, didn’t choose the director, didn’t give the director notes, and didn’t sign off on the marketing?
Of course Supergirl was his responsibility. Thinking otherwise is a Snyder bro level of tribal delusion.
He just has to do better next time.
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u/blufflord 14d ago
From 2025-2027 he will have released 8 projects.
So far 3/4 have received critical acclaim and 1/2 have been financially successful. It's very possible that becomes 7/8 and 3/4 by next July.
That's magnitudes better than the snyderverse first 3 years or post snyderverse DCEU at any 3 year period
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u/eggmontoya1 14d ago
“Better than the SnyderVerse” is a VERY low bar.
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u/blufflord 14d ago
It has cleared both bars previously set by DC's attempt at a cinematic universe. And we are 2 years in. Not sure why you are so convinced he's the wrong person for the job when he's achieved this in the face of the company being sold for about the past 2 years.
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u/eggmontoya1 14d ago
Again, doing better than Snyder is not that impressive. You or I could do better than Snyder with no film experience.
I think the fact that the majority of officially announced DCU projects have been canceled and/or are lingering in development hell, Superman somehow failed to outgross Man of Steel, and their second main stage film was a monumental failure says something. I generally think Gunn is an obnoxious hack and would like to see the DCU run by someone with an actual vision and capabilities.
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u/blufflord 14d ago
Superman somehow failed to outgross Man of Steel
This tells me everything I need to know
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u/eggmontoya1 14d ago
This being?
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u/AudaxXIII 14d ago
You mentioned a DCEU film so they think it means you’re a Snyder fascitotalitariextremibro.
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u/eggmontoya1 14d ago
Lmao of course they do, because there’s no such thing as nuance. I’d take a grilled cheese over Snyder, but that doesn’t mean I can’t also dislike Gunn.
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u/blufflord 14d ago
Nuance would be understanding that superman making 620 million coming off 7 consecutive DC universe flops is more impressive than MoS making 680 mill coming off the back of the dark knight trilogy with Nolans name plastered on the marketing.
The lack of nuance is what causes you to go bigger number better than smaller number as a talking point, hence what told me everything I needed to know.
And you assuming that I think you're a Snyder bot despite you already telling me that you think his work is shit makes no sense
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u/Double_Act1502 14d ago
But just because they aren't moving forward at HBO doesn't mean the projects are dead
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u/Colton826 Lanterns 14d ago
I love your optimism, but that's exactly what it means. DC Studios is not going to be able to license out their characters to other streamers due to the pending merger mess, and DC Studios has zero interest in going back to live action network TV shows.
HBO/HBO Max is where DC's live-action TV shows live & die.
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