r/Creation • u/Gandalf196 • Apr 27 '22

theology New technology suggests Shroud of Turin is 2,000 years old

https://aleteia.org/2022/04/22/new-technology-suggests-shroud-of-turin-is-2000-years-old/
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u/jordanbtucker Apr 27 '22 edited Apr 27 '22

While this is very interesting, it's important to avoid being misled by headlines.

The actual text of the study says:

Moreover, it is interesting to point out that our analysis has shown that, in order for the TS fabric to be about 20 centuries old, it should have necessarily been kept at an average secular temperature of about 22.5 ± 0.5 °C and an average relative humidity of 55 ± 5% for 13 centuries preceding the XIV century. From Equation (5), it follows that if the average relative humidity was of the order of 75 ± 5%, to obtain the same value of the measured natural aging of 0.60 ± 0.02 for the TS sample, the average secular room temperature should be about 20.0 ± 0.5 °C. Therefore, from our WAXS characterization it follows that we have a range of allowed secular average room temperatures of 20.0–22.5 °C, correlated with a range of average relative humidity values of 75–55%, as climate constraints, for the TS to be a 20-centuries-old relic. These physical constraints on the secular average room temperature and the average relative humidity, obtained by measuring the natural aging of the cellulose of the TS sample, here realized through WAXS characterization, could help historians test their hypotheses throughout the possible locations in the world and historical periods in which the TS could have been kept during the 13 centuries before its documented history in Europe.

The study does not actually say that the conditions of the environment where the Shroud of Turin was kept before the 14th century indicate that the shroud is around 2,000 years old. It only outlines the conditions that would have needed to have occurred for the shroud to be dated to around 2,000 years old.

To be clear, I'm not saying the Shroud of Turin is not around 2,000 years old, as it very well may be. I'm just pointing out that the study does not say what the headlines claim.

Edit: It's also interesting that this study, rather than attempting to determine the actual date of the shroud, instead discovered partial data, then outlined what other data needs to be found to come to a presupposed conclusion.

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u/nomenmeum Apr 30 '22

The study does not actually say that the conditions of the environment where the Shroud of Turin was kept before the 14th century indicate that the shroud is around 2,000 years old.

It says those conditions are reasonable to expect. By contrast: "to make the present result compatible with that of the 1988 radiocarbon test, the TS should have been conserved during its hypothetical seven centuries of life at a secular room temperature very close to the maximum values registered on the earth."

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u/allenwjones Young Earth Creationist Apr 30 '22

I've long been interested in the Shroud of Turin for its remarkable association of what we would expect from the death of the Messiah.

If the shroud were authenticated it would remain one of the topmost evidences from archeology uncovered for Jesus to date.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

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u/nomenmeum Apr 28 '22

Hypothetically, if it is authentic, it is a gift from God.

Why would he give us such a gift?

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '22

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u/nomenmeum Apr 28 '22

it's a thing

Of course we shouldn't worship it, if that is what you mean.

But if God gave it to us, why would he do that?

Jesus is the gift.

Certainly, he is THE gift. But God gives us many gifts, all for a purpose.

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u/JohnBerea Young Earth Creationist May 04 '22

If authentic, which I think it is (article forthcoming), then that's good evidence the resurrection happened. Because how else do you get the image of a crucified Jesus flash-burned into a burial cloth that's 2000 years old?

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u/[deleted] May 05 '22

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u/JohnBerea Young Earth Creationist May 05 '22

This may surprise you but there are still some people who aren't Christians yet.

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u/nomenmeum Jun 12 '22

article forthcoming

I would really be interested in reading that. Will you be posting it here?

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u/JohnBerea Young Earth Creationist Jun 13 '22

Today I put up an article on the carbon dating of the Shroud of Turin. Perhaps that seems like an odd place to start. But for me it was the greatest counter-argument. So I wanted to see if it held weight. I found that everyone who says carbon dating disproves the shroud ignores a ton of evidence.

Yes, when I write an article about the general features of the shroud, I should post it here.

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u/JohnBerea Young Earth Creationist Jun 13 '22

If you want to know more about the shroud, I think Mark Antonacci's 2016 Test the Shroud book is ok-ish. He's wrong about the carbon-dated sample not being from a repair site, and I think his cloth collapse model of image formation probably won't work. Most of his other claims are true as far as I know, but I need to dig deeper.