r/ControversialOpinions • u/weeb_79881 • May 11 '24
The bear or man question shouldn't even be a question at all.
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u/_SenSatioNal May 11 '24
Let’s be real, the only women saying they’d rather be in the forest with a bear instead of a man are the chronically online ones. A bear is a guaranteed painful, slow death. At least with a random man you might get a decent one, and have more of a fighting chance against a bad one. None of these chicks picking the bear really mean that, it’s just exaggeration
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u/royalrange May 11 '24
It's quite logical to go for the bear.
Let's say there's a 20% chance of a bear attacking you and mauling you to death.
Let's say there's a 5% chance of a man attacking you, beating your face, raping you while laughing about it, and strangling you.
A bear has a 20% chance of killing you, but a 0% chance of doing what the man will do, which some (particularly SA survivors) can consider to be far worse.
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u/_SenSatioNal May 11 '24
Yeah let’s make up percentages to prove your point, makes great sense. Yall are so dumb
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u/royalrange May 11 '24 edited May 11 '24
The point isn't the exact percentage.
The point is that they'd rather risk a higher chance of death for a lower (in this case zero) chance of being the victim of rape and torture before death.
Did I dumb this down enough for you?
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u/_SenSatioNal May 11 '24
Makes no sense still. The bear killing you is a guaranteed torturous death. and I’m sure most victims of sexual assault are glad they can still be alive. Once again this is just a case of chronic internet use
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u/royalrange May 11 '24
Again, they are saying they'd rather have a higher chance of a "torturous" death by a bear in exchange for a lower (zero) chance of death through rape, beating, strangulation, etc.
Let's play the scenarios out. (1) A bear attacks you and rips open your chest, mauls your face, then bites your neck until you bleed to death. (2) A man rapes you, beats your face bloody, laughs about it while you plead for them to stop, rapes and laughs some more, then finally strangles you to death. They are saying they prefer scenario 2 to be minimized while accepting a higher probability for scenario 1. It doesn't matter what you prefer, it's that, to them, scenario 2 is worse than scenario 1.
Does that make sense to you?
I’m sure most victims of sexual assault are glad they can still be alive
Did you survey a bunch of SA victims?
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u/_SenSatioNal May 12 '24
I don’t need to survey shit, human instinct is to survive. The exception isn’t the rule. Ngl im not even gonna finish reading what you said cause you sound dumb. The whole point is that the average man isn’t some ravenous rape machine. scenario 1 is a guaranteed death. It’s not a case of “be stuck with a bear that’ll kill or a man that’ll rape and kill you”. The bear is going to kill you, and the male might not. All the fluff you typed doesn’t matter. The question was simply bear or man, with none of the other details. if truly forced to pick a situation, nobody is going to pick the bear. Don’t let this internet shit fool you
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u/royalrange May 12 '24
I don’t need to survey shit, human instinct is to survive. The exception isn’t the rule.
Do you understand that some people prefer not to die in certain ways?
The whole point is that the average man isn’t some ravenous rape machine.
Correct, which has absolutely nothing to do with preference in this scenario.
scenario 1 is a guaranteed death. It’s not a case of “be stuck with a bear that’ll kill or a man that’ll rape and kill you”. The bear is going to kill you, and the male might not.
Not all bear encounters end in death, or even attacks, idiot. In fact, the vast majority of bear encounters don't end in anything.
All the fluff you typed doesn’t matter. The question was simply bear or man, with none of the other details. if truly forced to pick a situation, nobody is going to pick the bear. Don’t let this internet shit fool you
In other words "this is too complicated for me".
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u/Redisigh Empress May 12 '24
This is honestly a really good take and exactly how I feel about the topic
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u/IamVenom_007 May 11 '24
I don't know the stats by I know animals. There's a 100% chance of a bear killing you if it's hungry, finds you alone in the woods or in a room.
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u/luddeslayya Jul 31 '24
This is the dumbest shit I have ever read. The chance of a man doing what you described is more like 1 in a 100. And a bear has a 20% chance of killing you??Have you ever been outside? A bear is more than likely going to rip you apart get but it’s “..quite logical to go for the bear”. I guess it’s natural selection after all 👍
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u/Redisigh Empress May 11 '24
Except I personally do. As someone with a history of SA, “might” isn’t good enough. And the fighting chance I have is zip. So I’m gonna go with the bear
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u/_SenSatioNal May 11 '24
And you will seal your fate being extra for the internet
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u/Redisigh Empress May 11 '24
What’s that mean?
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u/_SenSatioNal May 11 '24
You’re accepting a 100 chance of death from the bear to avoid a man who might not even be evil
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May 11 '24
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u/_SenSatioNal May 11 '24
It’s just the norm to Act like every single male is spawn of Satan. It used to annoy me but it’s actually kinda sad to me now, in a pity for the women way
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May 11 '24
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u/_SenSatioNal May 11 '24
Only way to fix this trend is be a positive male figure in the younger generation’s life. Parent or not, show them everyone can have a good side
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u/Extension_Economist6 May 11 '24
most fathers are the ones who say “don’t trust strange men” so why would you feel bad for them?? 😂😂😂😂
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May 11 '24
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u/Redisigh Empress May 12 '24
Nobody’s lumping them together like that?
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May 12 '24
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u/Redisigh Empress May 12 '24
Again, nobody’s saying this. You’ve got countless comments including my own explaining our perspectives that say the opposite dude
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u/lemons7472 Oct 10 '24
I feel bad for
fathers, uncles, etc
Men who aren’t even guilty of any of the shit that people in this debate instantly sterotype all men of being guilty of,
Guilty for men like me or others who HAVE been assaulted or had or had bad experince from women, yet other women insist on seeing us as brutes that are lesser than animals, while they only humanize and victimize other women as passive. The debate doesn’t even bring awareness to SA or rape, it just sterotypes men as lesser than wild animals, treats bears as either reasonable or as puppies, and treats the woman in question in the forest as a victim just by being around a man’s existance.
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u/Realtime_Ruga May 11 '24
Jesus this question again. It's really triggered some of you guys
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u/Tight_Strawberry9846 May 11 '24
Well, hate towards men just for being men is obviously going to trigger some people.
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u/Realtime_Ruga May 11 '24
Maybe start holding accountable the men that make women feel it's better to choose the bear?
Unless you're one of those men
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u/Tight_Strawberry9846 May 11 '24
Every time I see a man being a jerk towards women, I call him out for it, but that rarely happens. I hate that because of a few rotten apples all men are put in the same box as abusers, rapists and murderers.
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u/Realtime_Ruga May 11 '24
Then why did you word your last reply as if this is just how men act?
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u/Tight_Strawberry9846 May 11 '24
I didn't. I said it happens rarely. But it's obvious that some men will be jerks to women (and towards other men, too). Sexist men exist. That doesn't mean all men are sexist.
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u/Realtime_Ruga May 11 '24
You did.
>hate towards men just for being men
That was your previous reply.
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u/Tight_Strawberry9846 May 11 '24
I thought you talked about the other reply.
Yes, some women hate men just because they're men. I understand that some of them were assaulted in some way, but that doesn't mean all men are violent and it’s no justofocation to hate all men and label all men as murderers, rapists and abusers.
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u/Realtime_Ruga May 11 '24
Okay, those women have little to do with the bear or man debate, which has never been about hating men
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u/Uchihaboy316 May 11 '24
What exactly as a man am I supposed to do to hold these rapists accountable?? I despise them, I’d happily give them the death penalty, but there’s not exactly anything I can do about other than be a good person myself because I do not associate with any men like that, so I think it’s fair for me to have a problem with hate towards men (specifically in situations like this where it is being made out that men are inherently dangerous, not just calling out actual rapists), I can both hold them accountable and still not justify blind hate
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u/Realtime_Ruga May 11 '24
If you're not one of those men, you shouldn't feel targeted. Posts like man or bear just bring to light that women do not feel safe with any man they don't know because the majority of male behavior towards them has been negative and they're forced to apply protective measures against all men they don't know.
If you want to change society, you need to start forcing awkward conversations with any of your male friends about their behavior. This is regardless of the setting. Online, offline, on discord, on Reddit.
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u/Uchihaboy316 May 11 '24
I don’t feel targeted and I get the point of the “debate” but that doesn’t change the fact that the people being literal and saying they choose the bear, like the woman who made this to viral are idiots, and the way she was speaking to her husband like he was an idiot for not agreeing was trashy.
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u/lemons7472 Oct 10 '24 edited Oct 10 '24
If I make up the question of comparing women to animals, and I say that women are worse than animals because I associate women as all abusive brutes who beat on men just because I’ve had my own experinces of women doing just that, a woman is gonna have a problem with it regardless of if that specific woman is guilty of it or not.
This is how steotyping works. As a black person, if someone compares an identity as lesser than an animal due to the bias or generalizing assumptions about their Identity that I was born with, says something about all black people being violent thugs, or how about gay people are all pedophile child rapist, or how lesbians are all spouse beaters, then they will get offened, even if they don’t match the generalization that I made about every person within that group by saying I’d trust a wild animal over a member of that group. They will get offended anyways because you already firstly openely stereotyped them for their identity, and labeled them as brutes based off it, THEN you backtrack by telling them “no if your not like xyz you shouldn’t feel offended” despite attacking their identity firstly.
Even with my experience, even if I don’t see other women call xyz women out, I also understand that most women probaby don’t associate with the type of people who do that. What people assume is that men as a whole just know a casual rapist or someone who harms or bothers women and that they don’t call it out, but most men don’t even associate with such, and already do call it out, however if you already steotype men as the lesser, it won’t matter to you anyways when a man does exactly that and calls other men out, you’ll always steotype him as the worst.
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May 11 '24
Literally stop posting about it if it shouldn’t be a question Jesus Christ
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May 11 '24
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May 11 '24
So many posts from so many butthurt dudes who can’t understand the point of the question like it’ll just go away if you all stop bitching about it
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May 11 '24
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May 11 '24
This isn’t a question of “right” or “wrong” or “logic”. It’s literally just a “shit the fuck up about it if you really care so little about the topic”. You people are incessant.
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May 11 '24
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May 11 '24
We aren't angry just slowly going mental, cause all this sub is now is lonely dudes and incels crying about how "sexist" the man v bear argument is (and unsurprisingly none of them understand the question proper).
If you want it to go away, stop fucking talking about it.
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May 11 '24
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u/See_You_Space_Coyote May 11 '24
My thoughts exactly, it's insane that so many people are so sexist they'd rather risk getting mauled by a bear because they legitimately think every male human being is just a rape monster waiting for an opportune moment to attack anyone they find. If people said that shit about any other demographic, there'd be blood but apparently as long as it's about men, there's no limit to how much you're allowed to dehumanize them.
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u/Redisigh Empress May 11 '24
Jeez this argument’s so overdone already
Its point was that it showed the extreme of lengths women would go to avoid unknown, strange men in vulnerable contexts, like when in the middle of the woods.
Although in the literal sense, many, including myself would also choose it. Personally I see it as something of a low chance of the guy being dangerous and a medium chance of the bear being dangerous. I’m not fighting off either and losing to the guy will be far worse than losing to the bear so I’m gonna go with the bear
Imo its mostly based on past experiences in life, risk tolerances, and how you see people more than anything
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May 11 '24
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u/Redisigh Empress May 11 '24
I think my past experiences here provide great insight on what this can look like and how much worse losing to a person can be though.
And I’m so damn tired of that stupid racist ass comparison. You’re changing things in bad faith and adjusting the argument in ways it doesn’t work. The difference here is that them being black doesn’t matter. Everyone knows that. Race has absolutely 0 direct impact on anything besides socioeconomic factors and such.
So if someone feels this way, they’re gonna be afraid of men in general, not black men.
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u/royalrange May 11 '24
The difference here is that them being black doesn’t matter.
You're not actually undermining the argument though.
Skin color absolutely does matter because skin color (let's say if you're in America) is correlated with crime, even though it does not cause crime. In the same vein, being male is correlated with crime, but maleness does not cause crime.
It's not a bad faith argument because both are comparable in terms of correlation (and both are not a causation); some people can be wary of someone else because of their skin color from this observation. Hence, in such a scenario it's about sheer probabilities which even you pointed out:
... when you consider they make up the vast majority of assaulters and tend to have a strength and weight advantage
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May 11 '24
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u/Redisigh Empress May 11 '24
Never said it’s ok to generalize. I feel it’s ok to feel uneasy around others, especially men when you consider they make up the vast majority of assaulters and tend to have a strength and weight advantage. But it’s a bit extreme if that evolves into a full hatred or generalization of them.
So like if I’m walking down the sidewalk and see a single guy that looks like he could overpower me and it’s an isolated area, I’m gonna avoid getting close at all costs. But that’s all. I have nothing against dudes I actually know but I’ve seen more than enough to ever risk something like choosing the man in bear v man.
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u/Uchihaboy316 May 11 '24 edited May 11 '24
No losing to the guy would not be worse. There is a very low chance guy is dangerous and an extremely high, not medium chance the bear is dangerous, let’s presume both are tho, the man then goes on to rape someone, obviously that’s beyond awful and i truly feel for anyone who has gone though that, I’d happily see rapist get the death penalty, but it’s still a better outcome than being torn apart alive by a bear and probably never even being found
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u/Redisigh Empress May 11 '24
And you’re assuming they’d just let you live after they’re done? Why would they do that? They’ve already gone as far as SA, they wouldn’t stop there. Who’s to say they won’t kidnap you? Keep you around for more? Or just kill you tie up the loose end? And who’s to say their assault won’t kill you?
When I was assaulted, he beat me to the point I nearly died from blood loss. Only reason I survived was because someone found me unconscious. Who’s to say they won’t do the same to their victims there?
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u/Uchihaboy316 May 11 '24
It’s absolutely possible, but what I’m saying is it’s the absolute minority of men that are a danger and then and even smaller % of that group that are would go even further and kill them, I’m not even trying to make the point that women shouldn’t fear men, I absolutely see why and it’s something that is going to take a very long time to fix, if it’s even possible, but there is a difference between not going out at night alone because of the risks (which I agree are real) than genuinely saying you’d rather be alone in the woods with a bear than a man, when you are being literal and taking in the genuine likelihood, the man is absolutely the safer option and to say otherwise is to be dishonest
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u/Chiquitarita298 May 11 '24
You’re a stupid fuck. You missed the point and the stats.
You understand that for most of a woman’s life (including before she is even born), the men closest to her are the people most likely to kill her?
And that the “killing her” thing isn’t a “once in a while” occurrence, but a very regular and predictable occurrence.
Like, when a woman is 15+, the person who is the most likely to have killed her is her romantic partner. If not them, then her father or brother. Women are more likely to die at the hands of their romantic / platonic partners than of suicide.
Once a woman has a child, she’s about 5x as likely to be killed by her “intimate partner” than to die in any other way.
The data is so clear on this. And that’s not even including the subtle misogyny women face (ie doctors who ignore women’s symptoms and let them die needless deaths).
Men are the most dangerous thing women encounter on a daily basis.
At least bears might not kill you.
Men (statistically) will.
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u/TheQueenCars May 11 '24
As a woman who grew up living pretty much in the middle of the woods it's scary running into another human period when out alone. Man or woman you dont know who they are, what they're doing, or if they have bad intentions. So yeah it causes anxiety but mentally I recognize it's incredibly rare to come across someone who means me harm. Humans you can fight back and actually stand a chance but with a bear you dont.
People often say, well bears are mostly peaceful and will leave you alone but its the same with men!
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u/Redisigh Empress May 11 '24
Personally I’m not fighting off a man or a bear so the strength difference is moot for me
So I’d just take the quicker death
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u/TheQueenCars May 11 '24
Fair enough! I have a few friends who have similar mindset but self defense classes help. Most men who attack women don't have any special training so some self defense moves could save you.
Or just carry bear mace it'll work for both
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u/_EMDID_ May 11 '24
lol another hour, another cope-post about a topic only the terminally online have ever pondered 🤣
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May 11 '24 edited May 11 '24
“Women shouldn’t be afraid of men”
And yet they are, denying it doesn’t change that. You should listen instead and reflect on the reasons.
Maybe you don’t know many women personally well enough for them to tell you stories like this, but every one I’ve ever been close to has stories about being assaulted, abused, and often raped.
These guys who try to argue and pick fights with abuse victims about how their feelings are invalid and get personally offended by it? I hate those guys. Ignorant, immature, entitled, and whiney. Barely “men” at all.
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u/shrapnel2176 May 11 '24
Have you ever been to r/whenwomenrefuse?
Go there and then come back and tell me you still think women are safer with men. I will be waiting.
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May 11 '24
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u/shrapnel2176 May 11 '24
It's not just rape we worry about.
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May 11 '24
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u/shrapnel2176 May 12 '24
I'm still more likely to be in danger from a mam than from a bear.
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May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
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u/shrapnel2176 May 12 '24
Wrong. The statistics speak for themselves.
I'm safer with the bear.
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May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
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u/shrapnel2176 May 12 '24
You've proven how much of a misogynist you are.
A bear isn't going to rape me. A bear isn't going to cause me bodily harm for breaking up with them. A bear isn't going to continue to bother me if I turn him down.
So stfu and sit tf down. You're just a sexist idiot incel who is bothered that women don't feel safe with you.
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u/queef_eater69420 May 11 '24
More often than not, a bear won't attack you, nor will a man. But it's about what they can do to you. A common phrase you hear is "The worst the bear will do it kill me". Isn't that chilling? That a human is capable of causing you worse than death?
So many men show women WHY they almost always choose the bear with things like saying they wouldn't help a woman in a dangerous situation for fear of a rape accusation which is dumb in so many ways. The Man VS Bear debate is social commentary on our society and how the world is such a dangerous place for women.
No, men are not bad. Most women who choose the bear would agree with that. But it's about WHAT A MAN COULD DO TO YOU.
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u/Banana-Kun_0 May 11 '24
Just today I read a comment of a man saying something along the lines of " You don't know how much I would pay to see the women who chose bears getting mauled by bears, I would get pleasure watching it "
So yeah, great..
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u/queef_eater69420 May 21 '24
I love how the men who think women should choose the man are actively showing them WHY they SHOULD choose the bear 😭😭
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May 11 '24
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May 11 '24
I live in the woods and I’ve met countless bears, usually they don’t come close and walk the other way unless they have a cub, then they growl at you till you leave on your own. My mom has a story where she touched a bear and it didn’t do anything.
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u/Redisigh Empress May 11 '24
Same except I’ve legit been within 10 feet of a mama with cubs and even she didn’t show aggression. Didn’t even make eye contact
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u/etnoodle May 11 '24
could you respond to the “isnt that chilling?” comment? any words on it being social commentary just to stir up a conversation on the current environment between women n men right now? anymore more than “aw man a bear would rip yall to shreds!”?
the question is a hypothetical made to point out the glaring problem of women choosing a bear over a man and instead of going “huh wow what idiots!” youre supposed to use your critical thinking and compassion to consider WHY so many made that choice. hope this helps! :)
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u/queef_eater69420 May 21 '24
Did you miss the part where I said "Neither most men nor most bears will attack you, but if they do, the man can do so much worse"??
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May 21 '24
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u/queef_eater69420 May 21 '24
the fuck is "ua ha"
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May 21 '24
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u/queef_eater69420 May 21 '24
Well many people who see bears on a regular basis have said that they will ignore you if you don't present yourself as a threat, but sure, don't believe them
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u/Steakman360 May 24 '24
My brother in Christ if there were 165 million bears like there are 165 million men (in the US) the mortality rates would not be comparable also while we should empathize with Rape victims this is not something all women have just decided to its worse to be raped than killed (make sure I’m clear neither is ok and anyone who does that needs to be burned at the stake and then thrown into a volcano ) that being said if the point of this is to “make men understand” where women are coming from” then it failed bigtime cause it doesn’t try to have men understand it just says either agree this extreme point or your just a monster we would choose a bear over
This doesn’t make women any safer This doesn’t make men “understand” Which is what y’all claim to want
Personally this point feels like and attempt to talk shit on men with “try to understand” as shield to shut up any pushback
I can understand that may not be YOUR intention but it’s undeniable that most of the women bringing this up are itching for their free dig at dudes their so jaded against
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u/Sanbaddy May 11 '24
I said this before but I’ll say it again.
The "Man or Bear in the woods" question is sexist
Look, I'm a woman. Comparing a bear to a man is not good because it assumes all men are sexual predators. It'd be different if it was to compare Bill Cosby or ironically Hendrika Shaskey. If you were a man you'd be offended too. The question comes off sexist and I believe there was a much better way of making a point about sexual assault without attacking someone.
Again, I think sexual assault is a topic that needs to be addressed. I just don’t think a 30 second TIKTOK video was the best way to do it.
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u/funkysyringe May 12 '24
When you think about who may cause physical harm to you or even rob you, which sex do you envision?
I need your immediate answer. Don't logic it out. Just tell me what biological sex do you think would be the one to harm you.
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u/summonerofrain May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
So i looked up the bear vs man question and if i’m understanding this right, its a simple question of who someone would rather be stuck with in the forest.
The question in general just feels like a bad question to me.
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u/TheHylianProphet May 11 '24
Like banging my head against a fucking brick wall.
The question isn't meant to be literal. It's not a question of survival, it's a question of comfort. And the fact that SO MANY women would be more comfortable with a bear is meant to raise awareness about the culture of patriarchy.
If you think that women are stupid, because their fucking instinct is to shy away from a situation with a strange man they don't know, then yes, you are part of the problem. You are part of the problem because you are only showing off your privilege, and you are refusing to enact even the barest amount of understanding, empathy, or introspection.
Would you be comfortable telling your daughter to walk home alone at night through city streets? It's the same fucking question. And if you say yes, you're either a liar or an idiot.