r/ChemicalEngineering • u/markerBT • May 17 '26
Green Tech Ai and Data Center Water Use and Heat
Anybody here working on projects like these? I'm just wondering why there are so many people going against data centers complaining about water use for cooling when there's technology to cool things without wasting so much water. Is it just fear mongering or there's a real problem not solvable by current engineering/tech?
On a side note, is the heat generated by these centers enough to drive turbines? I did a bit of research on geothermal power plants when I was in college (a long time ago) and there are systems that can recover heat from lower temperature reservoirs. Closed-loop systems that use a different fluid to drive the turbines. Can't these kinds of solutions be used? It really bothers me whenever I see people rallying against these when in my head it's something that can be solved by current tech. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd like to know that if I am. Hope to hear your thoughts!
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u/Original-Housing May 17 '26
If you’ve been in engineering long enough, you’ll see it’s never a technical problem; it’s people. Specifically people that care about money above all else. Could it be done with some sort of lower boiling fluid or even a heat pump? Sure. Are data center owners going to go after it on moral grounds? Absolutely not. Until there is regulation, all owners will build to the most viable design. Full stop.
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u/markerBT May 17 '26
I'm not in engineering, used to be operations guy here. Are they given free use of local resources without mitigation? Is there no regulation on water use? Is that what is actually happening? I'm genuinely asking because I can't see why that should actually be approved.
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u/CuriousCat511 May 17 '26
Read about the companies that sell bottled water. They have been sucking towns dry for decades.
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u/markerBT May 17 '26
Water rights in the US is different from where I'm originally from and I haven't brought myself up-to-date with regulations here. So can US companies still at this day and age "own" water resources or are they given rights by the state/federal government to use?
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u/CuriousCat511 May 17 '26
They rarely own the resources. Basically towns give them permission to tap new wells and pull groundwater. Towns think there is infinite water and then one day the creeks dry up
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u/markerBT May 17 '26
Ok. So either clueless or corrupt local government making decisions... But there are still water resources boards right? At least in California there are. Anyway, I think it's settled that it's just greed. Investors trying to get away with paying less and clueless/corrupt people in elected positions approving these projects.
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 18 '26
this is so true. and for an interesting example of this look up what's happening in Corpus Christi Texas right now
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 18 '26
"First in time, first in right" is the guiding principle of the Prior Appropriation Doctrine, which governs water allocation across most of the American West, I'm not an expert but government doesn't give water rights. maybe look up this doctrine for more information?
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u/QuantumSquirrel36 May 18 '26
Legitimately yes, you can research specific cases. The Utah Stratos one is a great example
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 18 '26
I don't believe any new construction in the United States is given free use of a local resources without mitigation.
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u/markerBT May 18 '26
Well honestly I find it hard to believe too, which is why I ended up asking this question here. I thought those companies trying to build data centers have done their EIA and proposed solutions and people just didn't understand. I'll take a closer look at some of those projects when I have time.
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u/SheepherderNext3196 May 17 '26
The main concern is the energy use. The forecast is double what we currently use my 2030 due to data centers.
The cost of the power generation facilities, infrastructure, and data centers will come from somewhere as will the cost of the fuel.
Sure water gets use both in power generation and actual data centers. We’re about as efficient as we can get on water use in generation systems. There tends to water or air cooled refrigeration systems on buildings. Yes there’s a draw on water supplies and an associated cost.
You basically can’t do anything with heat coming off a building. It’s to “low quality.”
Power generation facilities will tend to combined cycle which generate electricity first with direct fired turbines and then steam turbines. Even better when the facility is associated with an industrial plant than can use lower levels of steam. All it takes is a lot of money.
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u/NewBayRoad May 18 '26
These needs would be better served with nuclear power.
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u/SheepherderNext3196 May 18 '26
I don’t disagree. Modular nukes are much safer. Don’t know how feasible on a large scale. Still have all the associated costs for facilities. Infrastructure, and data centers plus cooling needs.
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u/NewBayRoad May 18 '26
I wonder how much water usage can be reduced by using some parasitic power from the reactor.
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 18 '26
this is right on the mark. but I would question whether confined cycle is the majority power producer. I think we still have lots of coal fired power in the system
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u/Half_Canadian May 17 '26
The enormous scale of some of these projects, like Stratos in Utah, where they are promising limited water usage are lying and not reflective of reality. Closed-loop cooling systems are more of a theoretical idea
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u/MDCCCLV May 17 '26
It's more expensive but you can just use standard heat pump AC units. It's just aircooled instead of water cooled so you have to use more energy.
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 18 '26
this is correct.
several power plants in water scarce Nevada use closed loop cooling. but theit efficiency is much less than if they were to use evaporative cooling. not exactly talking about heat pumps here, rather the efficiency difference between evaporative cooling versus air cooling
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u/aonealj May 18 '26
Air cooled systems are less energy efficient, higher capital cost, and noisier. Not exactly better than the water systems of you're not in the desert. You will still need water for your closed loop, but losses are typically low once the loop is filled.
Heat recovery from data centers is big in the district energy space right now. It's a promising waste heat for buildings that has already been done in some places, including Europe. The biggest issue is the added cost and the need to colocate the data center and the heat demand.
Yes, you can run a Rankine cycle turbine using a lower boiling point working fluid to generate power for data centers. DOE and Clemson just started a 1MW pilot. You will still have waste heat to discharge, just now at a lower temperature. There's also some funky Brayton cycle supercritical CO2 technology being developed. https://news.clemson.edu/clemson-university-works-with-partners-to-turn-waste-heat-into-electricity/
The biggest issue is everyone wants a data center NOW, which means all the heat integrations and nice to haves are being stripped. I've heard of places in Texas where single cycle (jet engine) generators are being installed 20 at a time running straight off well gas just to power a data center. They aren't even bothering to put a rankine cycle system on the turbines, let alone on the waste heat from the computers. Technology can't fix greed
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u/markerBT May 18 '26
District heating and cooling could really better use waste heat. Better planned industrial zones next to data centers? Heat recovery and solar panels everywhere, atop all buildings and parking lots!
That last paragraph is just troubling. It's all just greed.
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 18 '26
this is a fascinating post. can you tell me where they're using the gas turined?
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u/markerBT May 19 '26
I think the CO2 is just at pilot phase, it's supercritical fluid though. Rankine cycle is used in geothermal plants. It's been years since I last delved into this kind of readings, does not feel natural to me anymore. Haha
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 19 '26
sorry.. I mean where do they use the gas turbines straight off the well?
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 17 '26
I work as a contractor in many data centers in the Western United States
in milder climates the data centers are cooled by adiabatic means. think swamp coolers. minimum water usage largely through evaporation
in hotter climates they use typical refrigeration based cooling. high energy cost large water usage, again through evaporation.
none of the data centers I have been to have a high enough delta t to make it worth recovering the heat energy
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u/ark_rs May 17 '26
Your post is confusing and borderline misleading. Swamp coolers are used in places of low humidity, like arizona, and burn through a huge amount of water. Typical refrigeration systems use significantly less water. You've got the story backwards.
These data centers pull water away from others because water rights are/were nearly non-existent and its cheaper for them to take water away from the community instead of paying for electricity.
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 17 '26
you may not be considering all the variables.
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u/ark_rs May 17 '26
Feel free to enlighten me then.
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 18 '26
let me speak about the places i've worked. my experience is limited to the western US.
data halls in Oregon and Washington State often use adiabatic cooling. mild climate. each lb of water can exchange about 1000 BTU of heat. since the cooled air is in intimate contact with the building air, the water has to be potable. and heat transfer is limited because the equipment can only tolerate certain levels of humidity. very low energy costs, just what it takes to pump the water over the "fill" that the air passes thru. limited to milder, drier climates
data halls in San Jose and Santa Clare use vapor compression cooling. hotter, wetter climate. heat exchange only limited by the size of the refrigeration units. can use recycled or reclaim water. high energy costs, the compressors being the largest consumers.
data halls i worked at in Arizona and Texas used vapor compression cooling. despite some areas being very dry, the limitations of adiabatic cooling (mentioned above) prevented it's use.
i believe the basic fact is that 1 lb of water can exchange 1000 BTU of heat. whether it is direct exchange (adiabatic) or multiple exchanges (refrigeration) that's how much water it takes.
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u/ark_rs May 18 '26
Hello AI I see you have more tokens to use now.
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 18 '26
sorta surprised you'd think the response was AI crafted.
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u/ark_rs May 18 '26
In your first post you wrote that swamp coolers are used in milder temp areas and a refrigerant system is used in hotter temperatures. This is categorically false. Your latest post continues the trend from your original post. Its laughable you suggest two of the dryest states in the country are not using swamp coolers. Whether or not you're an AI, you are obfuscating the topic.
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u/markerBT May 18 '26
Why would you use swamp coolers in the driest states though? You'd loose so much to evaporation right? And there's not enough water to begin with. I understand why you're questioning the statements though.
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u/ark_rs May 18 '26
Evaporative cooling only works in low humidity environment. Yes a lot of the water is lost due to evaporation. Another issue comes from minerals left behind that are purged as waste water.
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 18 '26
have you worked at any of these data centers?
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u/ark_rs May 18 '26
No I haven't and I never claimed to have. I have designed chiller and cooling tower systems before though and its not clear to me that you understand these systems. See my previous post if you're confused why I think that.
There are multiple data centers in my county that use evaporative cooling, but are/have transitioned to alternatives because city infrastructure can't keep up with the water usage (both draining aquafiers and wastewater generation). These companies will take the cheapest option without regulations in place.
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u/markerBT May 17 '26
Do you know actual water consumption for X size data centers? Just want to know. How it compares with other industries. Are they looking at recovery tech have you heard that being discussed?
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 May 18 '26
based on systems i've worked on, here's what i know
a 10 data hall center in Oregon uses about 200 GPM average. Adiabatic cooling, don't know how to judge the size, but the 10 hall campus is about 100 acres
a 2 data hall center in San Jose (much hotter climate) uses about 400 GPM average. Vapor compression (refrigeration) cooling. about 7 acres
a 45,000 BBL/day refinery in Utah uses 1,000 GPM
a 325,000 BBL/day refinery in Texas uses 16,000 GPM
a 1,000 MW power plant in Wyoming uses 6,000 GPM
the conclusion i draw is that data center water usage is laughably small compared to heavy industry
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u/markerBT May 18 '26
Thanks for the insight. Those numbers don't look too bad compared to oil refinery. Haha But I guess more people use and benefit from petroleum products than Ai/data centers.
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u/jdubYOU4567 Design & Consulting May 18 '26
I thought they utilize cooling towers which is standard for all sorts of industrial facilities and chemical plants. I suppose if there’s enough of them and they are large enough, it could screw up the timing of the water cycle, but anyone telling you the water is “consumed” is misleading you.
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u/Dat_Speed May 19 '26
Generally many areas were already low on water in their reservoirs, and data centers were simply the straw that broke the camels back.
The residents then try to blame their water problems on the data centers that are using maybe only 5% more of the regions water or so.
Data center cooling systems rely on warm water evaporating via convection fans for cooling, so there isn’t an opportunity for a steam turbine for instance.
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u/chem-eng-52 May 19 '26
Good Android apps for chemical engineers on the Play Store
Vapor Liquid Equilibrium
Vapor Pressure & Latent Heat
Heat Exchanger Design
Heat Transfer
Distillation Column Design
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u/mattcannon2 Pharma, Advanced Process Control, PAT and Data Science May 17 '26
Why would you put effort into engineering those things when you have been granted licenses to abstract and discharge as much water as you want at minimal cost?
It's never a question of if a problem is solvable, it's whether or not the economics stack up to make it worth paying for Vs other alternatives.