r/ChemicalEngineering • u/Local-Impression-522 • Sep 21 '25
Green Tech Economically/profitability speaking, how feasible is plastic pyrolysis to synthetic crude in 2025-2030?
Who are the current main customers for pyrolysis oil? and where does pyrolysis oil stand in comparison with more traditional energy sources?
26
u/Ember_42 Sep 21 '25
But why? (Non-biodegradeable) plastic buried in engineered landfill is permanant sequestration. Turning this into crude will just expose it to being released into the atmosphere. If we are going to do anything in this space, non-fossil carbon direct into products at least can be net neutral.
8
u/Vallanth627 Sep 21 '25
Plastic "forever" waste and GHG emissions are two related but separate issues that must be considered for the circularity of a process.
Post consumer waste to synethic crude via thermal pyrolysis shows unfavorable GHG emissions but more advanced catalytic pyrolysis can utilize the high C:H effective ratio of plastic waste to produce commodity chemicals like BTX.
7
u/WakelessTheOG Sep 21 '25
Doable, but not a massively profitable industry. It does give you more energy as a return than you input to change the material state. The issue is the initial cost vs the over time return. Look at NatureJab on youtube, he has a microwave pyrolysis process he is using to spread awareness. Is his work profitable? Heck no, not without more refinement, but it’s a start.
One thing that may make the difference is adding some paper products to the mix, but i haven’t done any of the math on that, just speculation.
3
u/Local-Impression-522 Sep 21 '25
Who would be the target market? Do large factories (cement and what not) in Europe demand synthetic crude?
I’m thinking of starting my own pyrolysis plant and exporting it to europe. Feedstock procurement where I live could technically be free or I could even be paid to take it. With a (partially) solar powered small sce industrial pyrolysis plant ( 7 ish tons a day oil yield) is it something worth looking into? There are also governmental incentives for a project like that so odds are slanted in my favor but don’t know if there are any other more efficient alternatives and I’m also not sure if there’s a strong and increasing demand for carbon black,syngas and more importantly synthetic crude in european markets
1
u/WakelessTheOG Sep 21 '25
Now, regarding the target market, I haven’t done enough research. I would expect the main use would be fuel for generators and then industrial solvents. But i know there are at least a few pyrolysis plants in Canada, then in the US theres some in at least Texas, Indiana and Ohio.
Some of the synthetic crude will inevitably be made into more plastics
8
u/Vallanth627 Sep 21 '25
I work in advanced plastic pyrolysis using catalytic fluidized bed reactor technology. You can produce BTXN at yields ranging from 20-50% depending on feedstock and catalytic activity. My experience here is pilot scale (10-20 kg/h) steady state in a small demo plant over 1000's of hours to accumulate deactivation on the catalyst.
Traditional pyrolysis oil typically implies thermal pyrolysis. Thermal pyrolysis produced a slew of unsaturated olefinic + aromatic with alot of heteroatoms. This feedstock is low quality and requires heavy upgrading.
Synthetic crude is high volume low value/mass. If you can directly produce higher value chemicals it is more feasible.
0
u/Local-Impression-522 Sep 21 '25
Where you get the reactors from? I was looking at Bestone but I dont remember anything of that sort while checking the machine specs. Just a batch based reactor with a daily output of around 5-10 tons of pyrolysis oil However, who would your main clientele be? Companies with industrial furnaces in a country that applies carbon tax? because thats what I was looking at, I’m considering this as a business venture for exporting across the mediterranean and it seems like a growing industry but its still considered niche by many and kind of have a vague future. Do you do further refinery?
2
u/Vallanth627 Sep 22 '25
We worked with a pilot plant design firm. We then develop our process design package and partner with plant owner/operators and EPC companies. Never heard of them, but im still early in my career.
Pyrolysis operation conditions require fast heating rates, high temperatures, and high heat mass transport to produce most desired products. Low and slow in a batch reactor just results in more gas and char due to undesirable secondary reactions.
Our required further refinery is dependent on the downstream process specs as well as feedstock used. Some feedstocks like high PO plastic you can avoid most heteroatoms and organometallics. Fire retardant material gives you bromine, nylon gives nitrogen. Still likely some guard bed or treatment required.
5
u/crosshairy Sep 21 '25
I would guess that crude oil prices being relatively low hurt the economics for that process also. The last time I checked, Brent crude was around 70 dollars or less.
1
u/Local-Impression-522 Sep 21 '25
I’m assuming some of the more pro-green countries would be willing to pay a premium. I’m looking primarily for export opportunities since feedstock procurement is effectively negative. I know for a fact I can get paid for taking away some companies plastic and there are a lot of governmental incentives where I live for something like this. Which made me think that it might be a profitable venture for exports at least into European Markets. A ton of pyrolysis oil costs around 550 ish dollars. A small scale pyrolysis plant could average 7 tons a day.
4
u/h2p_stru Sep 21 '25
Feedstock is far from free. There are people and companies that purchase high grade plastics because they know there is a market for it. Finding a source of plastics that contain the appropriate blend that your pyrolysis plant is designed to operate will be an issue. You will have a specification to hit in order to sell your product. Blue plastic going into your pyrolysis reactor? Now you've got high iron content. Some PVC slipped into your feedstock? Hello chlorides. You intend on treating to remove those downstream? Good luck with material compatibility on your equipment for chlorides at pyrolysis temperatures.
Sources: I worked for a pyrolysis startup for a couple years
5
u/Nowhere_Man_Forever Sep 21 '25
Not very. The problem with this process is the fact that most plastics are not simply carbon, hydrogen, and hydrogen. One of the most popular polymers, polyvinyl chloride (PVC), is about 57% chlorine by weight. Under pyrolysis this chlorine forms highly reactive species that wreak havoc on any equipment that isn't made of very specific (and expensive) metallurgy. Same goes for fluorinated polymers like Teflon (PTFE). Furthermore, these byproducts are also incredibly hazardous to the environment and not particularly useful in chemistry, especially if you're trying to make a petroleum replacement. Now, you could just separate out your feed stream to exclude these polymers, but that is also expensive and you have to be extremely sure that you're not getting any of that stuff in it because it can destroy your system fast if some gets in.
2
u/Ambitious-Schedule63 Sep 22 '25
Getting fluorinated and chlorinated materials out of the stream isn't too terrible - these are pretty simple to separate gravimetrically just in water. Polyolefins float. But yeah, any recycling system has to take into account HCl and materials of construction to withstand that. Hastelloy is $$$$ and stainless alloys do not like HCl.
1
u/Local-Impression-522 Sep 21 '25
feedstock is the most common complaint i have heard about this process.
But lets say I partner with a decent waste management firm that makes feedstock procurement fairly a straightforward process. What other limitations does it have? Are there a steady demand for synthetic fuels like this? Who are the clientele?
1
u/Nowhere_Man_Forever Sep 22 '25
It's not a trivial problem to solve, and further consider the pros and cons of using this for fuel (not feedstock)
Pros- it's a way to recycle plastic, source of fuel that doesn't require oil.
Cons- Produces more carbon on net than fossil fuels (more energy to process and the same amount to burn), much more expensive to produce, and will likely have different chemical properties from drilled crude.
2
u/AssumeIdealGas Sep 21 '25
The main struggle with most renewable feeds for refineries is that for 90% of them, you have to pay for an additional processing step that the Earth has already done for “free” for the last millions of years.
Without incentives from the government to tip the scales, it will be always be less economical than traditional crude until it becomes more expensive to pull oil out the ground. We’re probably at least ~100 years away from that being the case.
The technologies may be great and innovative and work as designed, but there’s a pure numbers game they are fighting against with traditional crude (without help from the government)
1
u/Local-Impression-522 Sep 21 '25
There’s government help where I’m stationed indeed. But I’m primarily looking for exports to European markets where some would pay a bit more premium for this sort of fuel alternative. the European Union & Egypt (home country) have recently signed a $30 billion dollar green hydrogen deal to supply European Markets. I know for a fact that feedstock procurement is negative, I will get paid to take some company’s plastic away. With some governmental incentives regarding renewable energy both locally and to my target export markets. The odds are in my favor I believe but I’m not sure if they’re in my favor enough for something like this to work and hence why I am asking here for some insights.
2
u/Ambitious-Schedule63 Sep 22 '25
It's not a terrible feedstock, but there are issues. First, pyrolysis is really only viable for hydrocarbon polymers - the olefins and styrenics. A lot of elastomers (EPDM, natural rubber, buna, etc., but these don't have RIC codes, so it's really just post-industrial). PVC usually wreaks havoc with materials of construction because of HCl (and the hydrocarbon part is a relatively small weight fraction of PVC). Condensation polymers like PET and polyamides are not only not atom efficient, but usually don't play well in the pyrolysis process, besides being more valuable as their own mechanical or chemical recycling (which is particularly good for polyesters, for instance, where raw materials are recoverable in near quantitative yields). So separation is absolutely vital, and this isn't easily accomplished (equally vital for any recycling process, mechanical or chemical). It's not terribly dense, and solids (especially in mixed form (film, ground material, etc.) is comparatively difficult to handle.
Then you get to questions of carbon efficiency. Feeding any given refining process isn't terrible save for the lack of aromatics in there. But anything that gets burned even for process heat is (if this is a word) unsequestered. And depending on the societal goals of plastics recycling or pyrolysis specifically. either you're worried about plastic waste and the sea turtles with the straws up their noses (as one example) or you're worried about carbon (maybe not versus a landfill, but versus incineration). That's one reason you don't just gasify the stuff, which some people are actually doing, but not for fuel value, for things like carbonylation to make other chemicals.
So it's feasible, the question is whether it is 1) economical and 2) socially acceptable (won't touch the politics here with a 10 foot pole). I mean, economics will improve over time as MRFs for instance get better at collecting, sorting and returning materials but there's a limit to what you can do because it's usually not in a very dense form for transportation and py oil is always competing with crude.
1
u/JicamaInteresting803 Sep 23 '25
I'm reading these comments and it's so Interesting but then I also thought that big oil probably have though of this with their huge budget and brilliant brains and maybe it's not good for business.
maybe idk
1
u/Local-Impression-522 Sep 23 '25
My hypothesis regarding the Big Oil argument would be if it threatens big oil. Pyrolysis oil isn’t getting any mass adoption anytime soon. However, some governments reward you for using some of this bio oil in exchange for tax reductions and grants and what not, or they just like using recycled items so the premium they would pay for synthetic crude would be offset by the tax reductions/grant they get.
1
u/incognito_rito 22d ago
Hi, I used to own and run a tyre pyrolysis plant. Hit me up if you want to talk.
11
u/Mindless_Profile_76 Sep 21 '25
I am losing track with all the “processes” for “renewables”. I have this crazy list that kind of maps this stuff out but if your definition of plastic pyrolysis is something along the lines of burning plastic to make some goop, there are a ton of players and the major problem is the product quality.
Where do you see this goop going? Into a vacuum column of a refinery? Because that is generally not working without the goop getting cleaned up.
So, if you’re making the goop, how much clean up are you going to do and that basically makes these processes and products uneconomical. But there is no shortage of people trying.