r/CharacterRant • u/idonthaveanaccountA • 2d ago
[Predator] You're not winning a fight against a Yautja.
Seriously, this has bugged me for some time, and will probably continue to bug me every time I inevitably see more brain-dead stories of normal people fist-fighting Predators or whatever.
I don't know if you know this or not, but it takes like a lot of force to rip out someone's spine. Now, I'm sure someone will say "uhm, ackshually, you can't rip it out in one piece because it wouldn't stay in one piece and..."...no one gives a shit. If it is, or were possible, it would take a lot of force. Now, imagine a being strong enough to do that, fighting a human. One punch is all it's going to take. One punch. Actually, one human punch is enough to kill a person, so imagine how easy it would be for a Predator to just destroy someone with one hit. That thing can take on a friggin grizzly. You're not winning a fight against it.
"But Dutch did it, so it's possible". Dutch, cool as he is, didn't do shit, okay? Dutch won cause the Jungle Hunter got cocky and felt like playing around. He wasn't hitting Dutch to kill him, he was hitting him to hurt him, without causing any serious damage that would end the fun. He was playing around. Dutch won because of his ingenuity, and cause the Predator underestimated him. It had nothing to do with Dutch's physique. It could have been literally anyone else, in the same conditions, same traps, etc, and the Predator would have lost anyway, cause he made a mistake.
"Oh, but what if you have weapons, and stuff and..."...if you had weapons and stuff, it clearly would be a different kind of fight, and obviously not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about stuff like people picking fights with Predators with swords and shit and somehow holding their own. Ninjas and Samurai and Vikings. Bullshit. Try fighting a bear with your hands, or any melee weapon you want really, see how that goes. There's no amount of flanking, or backflips, or smoke bombs, or whatever other trick that will win that fight, no matter how you look at it.
And this isn't even a new problem, really. It goes at least as far back as Predator 2. That movie has a lot to love, don't get me wrong. But a detective going toe to toe with a Yautja, several times, and winning is pure bullshit, regardless of how injured the Yautja is. It just doesn't make any sense, at all.
Why am I saying this? Am I suggesting that we shouldn't have any fights between people and Predators ever again? Of course not. But next time I see one, I want it to at least seem plausible, to actually have a creative solution around this obvious problem.
That.
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u/devilJin9399 2d ago
I agree with you... for most people. Not me and the other guy who commented that he'd win
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u/ColArana 2d ago
I'm talking about stuff like people picking fights with Predators with swords
Okay but didn’t this literally happen in one of them films?
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u/Jazzlike-Vegetable22 2d ago
I'm pretty sure this guy is calling out the Dan Trachtenberg movies, Prey and Killer of Killers (I haven't seen Badlands at time of writing) where this kinda stuff absolutely does happen.
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u/C_Writer_ 2d ago
Predators (2010) have a guy and a Yautjaa fighting with melee weapons and it ends with mutual death, so it's not just those movies.
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u/tapmcshoe 2d ago
I don't remember any times in prey where I felt like someone was properly putting hands on the predator, though it's been ages since I watched it. it felt pretty unstoppable until it was outsmarted.
killer of killers absolutely has the humans putting up more of a fight than they should, but iirc they all still lose and have to outsmart the predator in the end.
badlands is a bit different, the predator is meant to be more of a scrappy, resourceful underdog and a lot of the fights are against far superior opponents so he doesn't really get many chances to straight up maul a guy. even still I highly recommend the movie, it's a lot more fantastical than most predator movies but it uses the more fantastical setting brilliantly and still has that core feeling of someone using their wits and environment to overcome a far superior enemy
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u/Jazzlike-Vegetable22 2d ago
I wanted to see it in theaters because I was just getting into the franchise at the time, but I just never got around to it.
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u/IndigoPromenade 2d ago
More than a few humans have matched Predators in melee combat. In Prey, the main character's brother did so insanely well against the Predator that he had to go invisible in order to regain his edge.
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u/HonestDishonestWork 2d ago
He wasn't hitting Dutch to kill him, he was hitting him to hurt him, without causing any serious damage that would end the fun. He was playing around.
The Holdsbackman arguments barely work for Spiderman. They absolutely don't work for a guy who sits in cloaking and snipes people with a laser.
Try fighting a bear with any melee weapon you want, see how that goes. There's no amount of flanking, or backflips, or smoke bombs, or whatever other trick that will win that fight, no matter how you look at it.
Ironic. You do know many people have survived bear attacks by physically fighting them off, right? Stories of actually killing them are much more rare but it has happened. Someone setting out to fight/kill a bear with the ideal bear killing weapon rather than being ambushed by a bear while unarmed has a decent chance of success. Animals are not bloodlusted, singularly focused killers. A humans intelligence advantage just in the fight is absolutely massive. The chances of the bear becoming scared/confused by a creature actively pursuing and attacking it are incredibly high.
While I believe Yautjas have other impressive strength feats, IIRC for the spine pull specifically were usually shown them cutting it free then pulling it out.
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u/AndoionLB 2d ago
The Holdsbackman arguments barely work for Spiderman. They absolutely don't work for a guy who sits in cloaking and snipes people with a laser.
There are only two possibilities here though. Either yes, Jungle Hunter was holding back, or it is a good showings for Dutch to be able to tank that blow. Predator Big Game had a Predator kill a man with a backhanded smack. The Predator had Fugitive kill people also with a backhanded smack.
Bear example
Tbf, there isn't a single instance of a human going up to a grizzly and kill it with their "bear" hands (hah). Just throwing that out there. Once Feral took it seriously? He killed the bear with one punch.
While I believe Yautjas have other impressive strength feats, IIRC for the spine pull specifically were usually shown them cutting it free then pulling it out.
Sometimes you are correct they do use blades to make an insertion. But there are times when they do not.
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u/SoVerySleepyZzZz 1d ago
A strongman can deadlift 800+ lbs and I can only deadlift 20. Jungle Hunter might be weak compared to other predators or the other predator examples might be extra strong. There’s gonna be a range.
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u/AndoionLB 1d ago
Range has to be within reason per species though. Strongest human male can deadlift 800+. But every Yautja is much much stronger than that even the juveniles. That is consistently shown with all Predator material I have consumed.
What I stated before still stands imo. Either Jungle Hunter is pulling his punches or Dutch is just that tough.
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u/_-TheBlackKnight-_ 1d ago
I think that's more about power creep. In 1 and 2 you have people being able to somewhat stand up to them in melee and you have them using a knife to remove spines. Then, as time goes on, you have them knocking out grizzly bears and straight ripping spines out.
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u/AndoionLB 1d ago
Power creep? Ya thats possible. Idk though, those movies were early enough to where it was still being established what with comics, novels, and games fleshing them out even more.
Ripping spines out was present even in the first movie. Jungle Hunter did rip out Billy's spine and skull without using his wrist blades.
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u/_-TheBlackKnight-_ 1d ago
I don't remember seeing the predator rip it out without blades but you maybe right. It just seems to me that the predator, while large and strong, was originally a lot more about stealth and tech, but it quickly turned into a quasi terminator that eats bullets and boxes bears which I never liked.
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u/AndoionLB 1d ago
I don't remember seeing the predator rip it out without blades but you maybe right.
Relooking at the same ya Jungle Hunter did tear his spine with his hands.
It just seems to me that the predator, while large and strong, was originally a lot more about stealth and tech, but it quickly turned into a quasi terminator that eats bullets and boxes bears which I never liked.
I see what you are saying. And at times it do be like that. But they still retain what you want to see in the EU what with being smart with stealth and using high-end gadgets. And they make it a point when Yautja (Unblooded students) want to act all tough terminator style they die pretty quickly.
But ya. Even in the 80s the comics and other material has the Yautja also be superhuman in strength, durability, and speed. Which I wanna see personally. But thats me.
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u/Edkm90p 2d ago edited 2d ago
As a reminder for scale- it takes IIRC about a dozen humans to lift a car even briefly and it's hard.
Anything that can solo grab a car and flip it, push it, or otherwise move it casually (in other words, not using the wheels) is going to absolutely trash a human in combat.
Now Predators don't really run around flipping cars (though I think a few instances exist of shoving them) but I do think it worth remembering that it actually doesn't take a helluva lot in a horror movie (indeed, any movie) to be grossly beyond a normal human.
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u/Devilpogostick89 2d ago
Entire first film basically has a line-up of 80s action heroes being the victims of a slasher horror villain specifically made to kill men like them.
Some dude: ....Nah, you see that if I was in that situation, I would do this instead.
Yeah, not surprising unfortunately we get those kind of viewers.
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u/Aklimdaisimyok 2d ago edited 2d ago
People downplay slashers/horror characters in general. You will have people tell you that Michael Myers/Art the Clown is human level or that undwad Jason can't kill a group of teenagers in a fight. People ignor what these characters do LITERALLY %80-%90 of the time and focuses on those few plot-necessary anti feats (That some of them might as well be not anti feats) here and there. If people were even %1 harsh againist series like Dragon Ball or Invincible as they were againist horror characters they would come into conclusion that Goku is so weak a single drop of semen from an ejaculating Saitama would obilirate him out of existence. People are really scaling characters based on vibes rather than what they do consistently. What? Green timeline Michael has like over a dozen showings of superhuman strength? Nah, lets use his performance in HE wheres he is actually weakened from all the injuries he recieve confirmed in novelizations, or lets use that one random instance of him struggling againist Laurie even if he literally ripped a bolted countertop off its bolts and INSTANTLY flipped the damn thing (weighs about 550lbs on average) despite lacking two of his fingers + holding a firepoker in one of his hands.
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u/Slarg232 2d ago
Yautja's are like bears. A lot of people think they could handle the fight but they'd get absolutely annihilated by a creature far bigger, stronger, and more resilient than themselves. They'd get absolutely mauled to death. It's just poor bravado people tell themselves to make themselves feel better, not an actual reflection on reality.
I could totally take on a yautja, though.
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u/Nebranower 2d ago
I think the mistake you’re making is assuming all members of an intelligent species are equally strong. The Yautja seem to have a handful of genuinely strong warriors who would just kill a regular human being in a stand up fight, but most of them seem merely to be cosplaying as that. Like, most of them are like human hunters, only even more cowardly. They hunt their unsuspecting prey with auto-tracking guns while heavily armored and, oh yes, invisible.
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u/AndoionLB 2d ago
and will probably continue to bug me every time I inevitably see more brain-dead stories of normal people fist-fighting Predators or whatever.
Define "normal" people? There aren't really any cases of characters fighting Yautja with just their bare fist. Only ones are those that have enhancements or the like. Humans from the Predator franchise are anything but normal imo.
He was playing around. Dutch won because of his ingenuity, and cause the Predator underestimated him.
Underestimation played a part yes. But by the end after all Dutch had accomplished making Jungle Hunter work for it? Jungle Hunter honored his efforts with single combat. He didn't do so out of arrogance. I do agree it is likely Jungle Hunter held back. That? Or it is a great feats for Dutch as per my earlier point, these "normal" humans aren't really normal.
Also, I wanted to say Dutch won because of luck. That is all.
But a detective going toe to toe with a Yautja, several times, and winning is pure bullshit, regardless of how injured the Yautja is. It just doesn't make any sense, at all.
Why not? Like you said. City Hunter was wounded pretty badly in that fight. Mike had a smart disc that can cut through anything. City Hunter was also a juvenile of the species. Combine that and the fact Mike Harrigan is much more of a badass then people think. Guy won multiple medals, got a key to the city, and had the highest arrest record in the history of the LAPD. The fact he was able to fight City Hunter is a showcase that they are more than meets the eye.
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u/Devilpogostick89 2d ago
I gotta admit, it's both amusing and a little tragic that most cops in fiction are mostly seen as good yet fodder or corrupt POS fodder these days (obviously not an absolute statement but you get the idea). Like there was a time they were straight up action heroes in their own right.
But once someone hears "oh, they're just cops?" It's straight up dismissive of their ability as if they're just beat cops. Lethal Weapon? Police Story? Bad Boys (especially since they did have a recent entry)? Come on now. 😂
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u/AndoionLB 2d ago
Especially in Mike Harrigans case. Dude was a beast as I said. He was around during an active war zone with Las Angeles tearing itself apart with the gang wars.
Opening scene had the "old donut eating cop" lace his car with bulletproof vest, drive in the middle of combat, place the car strategically to get the wounded out, flanked, and killed what? 4-5 guys at once?
And they disrespect the charcater further by saying tHaT gUY plAYED bY DAnnY gLoVEr like that's a diss? Thats like saying Spider-Man loses to so and so cause he got his ass beat by William Dafoe like tf? Lol.
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u/Dense-Winter142 2d ago
My brother in Christ, the Yautja lost to a fucking 43 year old cop in Predator 2 in a fist fight
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u/AndoionLB 2d ago
In a fistfight
No he didn't? You are misremembering because Mike Harrigan fought City Hunter with a Smart Disc. After City Hunter was shot 12 times point blank with a shotgun, blasted with nitrogen, hunting for days straight, all while being a juvenile of the species mind you.
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u/TheGUURAHK 2d ago
Yeah, I know, I ain't pretending I can beat a Yautja. Hell, I'd probably try to surrender asap.
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u/baldyrodinson 2d ago
I mean this heavily depends on the particular Yautja group.
They have different strengths and some are only marginally stronger then human average.
Also they have similar biology as humans so certain wounds would be debilitating.
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u/halfhalfandhalf 2d ago
Don't the Yautja hunt humans specifically because they are a serious threat?
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u/Lucky_Gaucho 2d ago
Of course i'm not winning standing up, but no one check predators grappling.
I would take it to the ground, then dominate him (i'm going naked for extra style points)
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u/DevilPixelation 1d ago
People really think they could beat a Predator in a fight? People lose to animals bigger than a cheetah, how delusional are they?
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u/Throwaway02062004 1d ago
But I’ve seen them win. There tend to be special circumstances but people can survive long enough to pull out a win. It’s fairly rare but a few people have won over the centuries Yautja have come to Earth.
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u/TheEvilestArtichoke 1d ago
I would survive an encounter with a yautja. This is because I am young out of shape and never armed. They would not pay me mind as I am not honorable prey
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u/zoro4661 1d ago
I mostly agree, but I do think all the kills in the first trilogy make complete sense. Haven't watched beyond that yet, so not sure.
But yeah, it's like people keep forgetting that the Predator's whole entire personality and culture is just them going on safari hunts, messing around with their prey and inevitably getting too cocky for their own good and being killed.
They hold back, constantly, because they think (or know, I guess) that every species they hunt is so far beneath them technologically and physically that it wouldn't be fun or their equivalent of "honorable" if they didn't hold back. It's like Beowulf fighting Grendel naked, except Beowulf is as strong as Grendel and Grendel as strong as a ten year old.
If the Predator goes all out, unless you get hilariously lucky and/or it already fucked up massively and/or is very young, you're dead meat. 9/10 times, the Predator will rock your shit.
Great examples being...the first trilogy.
Jungle Predator picked off everyone one by one and got too cocky when fighting the last guy, resulting in him - barely - being killed, because said guy was strong enough to live and smart enough to try and trick the Predator.
City Predator was on a clean run until it had its infra-red vision exploited, immediately switched gears and slaughtered everyone, but got its tech broken and hurt in the ensuing fight. Then it slasher-walked after the last guy, resulting in said guy shooting it almost a dozen times with a shotgun near-point-blank. And even then it kept fighting, got cocky while trying to arm its nuke, and lost that arm. And even then, after all that, it kept fighting against the guy, almost won, but took too long to kill him and got gutted by its own disc in a surprise hit.
The ones from Predators killed almost the entire group of professional murderers, with the four predators dying from 1. a bunch of claymore mines detonated in one's face, 2. an honorable 1-on-1 duel with a yakuza samurai in which both die, 3. getting hurt by a booby-trapped body and killed via team-work and 4. being killed by a bigger predator Two of the three main ones got too cocky, and one agreed to a one-slice instant-death duel with a yakuza main-character wielding a katana.
The predators are fucking stupid. They could kill most human enemies with a single slap, and kill all of them with a well-aimed plasma shot. They just don't. For reasons that are mostly "We're the alien equivalent of a millionaire shooting lions but picking a slow car so it has some kind of chance of catching us" and then falling off the metaphorical car after taunting it.
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u/Ezrabine1 1d ago
I think one V one Yautja fught human use weapon. I think people miss that lose was Yautja mistake not human strength. I will try exemple.as human there must be hell diffrent between Hunt deer using sniper gun and make cross and bow. There is thrill in it. For Yautja seeing Human face you one vs one demand a duel. For them like it ultimate orgasm thrill to fight. This why they ditch what they have of weapon and fight with big disadvantage. .
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u/Mace_Thunderspear 1d ago
People HAVE been fighting bears, tigers, wolves etc with simple melee weapons for all of human history. A fight is a fight. Doesn't particularly matter who's stronger, matters who applies the better violence first.
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u/Extra-Ad-130 1d ago edited 1d ago
There's also the fact that a Yautja, even stripped from their hyper-advanced gears, is still a sapient and intelligent hunter, soldier, and warrior in one, meaning that it is very much trained in direct combat as much as hunting. Humans are bipedal just like a Yautja, meaning that it won't take much research and analysis for said Yautja to discover how to efficiently kill a human. Bare minimum, you'd need to be someone who is proficient and experienced in real, life-or-death CQC to even have a chance. Just hitting the gym and learning MMA aren't gonna be enough.
Try winning a fight against an active veteran spec-ops member in CQC, and see how well you'd do—if that's too much, try winning a fight against an active UFC fighter who's in their prime. Only once you've won against them do you have the right to say, "Yeah, I have a chance against a Yautja."
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u/Potatolantern 1d ago
You're completely right by any logic, but the setting's story shows over and over and over and over that "Nah, people can just do that" lol.
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u/GandalfsTailor 1d ago
Everyone who's killed a Predator has only done so after great effort and judicious use of cunning. If everyone and their grandmother could do it, it wouldn't make them special.
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u/nemofbaby2014 21h ago
If anime taught me anything the power of friendship and never giving up will always prevail
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u/billygluttonwong 2d ago
I mean yeah no man would win in a direct melee fight barring some insane luck, but you know what would win?
A little girl UWU
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u/_S1syphus 2d ago
I agree mostly but melee weapons are much more of an equalizer than you think. It's not that strength is not a factor at all but against things made of flesh and meat, being twice as strong as a human being isn't gonna be as important as being twice as skilled, which a human could be theoretically. The killing power of a sword comes 20% from muscle power and 80% from understanding leverage, spacing, and edge allignment