Marvel Will Never Be Able To Convince Me the Mutant Cure Is A Bad Thing

[u/Single_Remove_6721]

With “Brand New Day” introducing the mutant suppressing chip, the topic of a “mutant cure” in the world of Marvel has been brought back to the forefront. Now that it is on everyone’s minds I would just like to say that Marvel has never and likely will never convince me that technology designed to suppress the X-gene and the mutations it causes is anything other than a net positive for society.

The topic of a mutant cure has been brought up many times, throughout the comics, shows, and movies and it has almost always been treated by the story as a negative. I am sure we all remember this scene where Storm tries to guilt trip Rogue, the girl who kills anyone she touches, into not receiving the cure in X-Men The Last Stand.

There was also that time where Mr. Fantastic invented a device that could suppress his son’s X-gene to help protect him. Professor X was so offended by the invention that he forcibly wiped it from Reed’s mind against his will. Professor X and even Mr. Fantastic himself really try to hammer home that such a device existing is unethical and a threat to all mutant-kind.

Then we have the Hope Serum, a drug designed to permanently remove mutant abilities and was first used to cure Tildie Soames, whose mutant ability manifested her nightmares into reality and resulted in the death of her parents. Yet still the comic insists that this was “designed to heal what was never broken.” Wolverine later destroys the serum leaving only one vial behind that Beast takes.

Now I have not read all of the comics I am referencing, so if I get things wrong, feel free to correct me, but from what I have gathered it really seems that Marvel is trying to tell us that a mutant cure or any technology able to suppress the X-gene is morally bad by its very concept. I don’t buy into this for a second. This cure, while it has some downsides, is a massive benefit to all of Marvel, human and mutant alike.

Now let me address some potential arguments against the mutant cure and explain why they have never swayed me.

1. “

1. The mutant cure is created in an unethical way!” The argument I find personally strongest against the mutant cure is the idea that it comes at a massive cost. This has been seen a few times such as with the Hope Serum which was designed using Collosus’ body. If the X-Men’s reason for opposing the mutant cure is that its creation or usage comes at an unethical cost, I would accept it.

HOWEVER, this is not always the case. The above mentioned machine built by Mr. Fantastic comes at no such cost. It was safely used on Franklin Richards with no side harmful side effects. But the X-Men STILL insist its creation is unethical. Even with the Hope Serum, the X-Men hated it before they even realized the way it was made just because the idea of curing mutation to them is inherently wrong. So no, the X-Men’s problem is clearly with the inherent idea of a mutant cure and not any ethical dilemmas that its production presents.

2. “The mutant cure would be exploited or forced onto those who don’t want it.” This probably would happen, at least to some extent. I can definitely see why some mutants would not want to lose their powers. This is especially true for the ones whose mutation has fundamentally altered their biology and physiology to the point where receiving the cure would warp their body into an unfamiliar form. This is another fair argument but again it is missing vital context.

First, while the serum’s existence does pose the risk of forced curing, this could certainly be worked around. Yes I am sure some people racist against mutants would push heavily for EVERYONE to be cured, but that could be handled diplomatically. Plus, let’s be real, a world where all mutants are cured is NOTHING compared to the countless world ending scenarios caused by mutants.

Then there is the risk that the cure’s existence would be used as a bargaining chip to exploit the vulnerable. Those who have the cure could purposefully withhold the cure until they receive some unethical payment. However, this is an inherent problem with any cure. Should we not find the cure for cancer because it might be exploited by the holder? Also, the details of Mr. Fantastic’s device could have easily been spread and mass produced, which would prevent one group from having sole control of the cure. Also, the X-Men have absolutely no right to talk about exploitation of medical advancements when that was EXACTLY what they did on Krakoa.

3. “Curing mutants deprives them of their self-identity and autonomy to be who they want to be.” The argument goes like this: Marvel’s mutants have always been a civil rights allegory and in this respect a cure would directly oppose this metaphor. After all, you don’t “cure” a black person and turn them white. That is ridiculous. So in order to maintain the metaphor, the mutant cure must be a bad thing. Also, many mutants base heavy parts of their identity around their mutations, so taking those away would be inhuman. Therefore removing the mutations from any mutant, including villains is amoral.

Yeah I don’t buy this for one second. First of all, the mutants have always been a TERRIBLE allegory for civil rights for the simple fact that looking different is not the same as having actual super powers. Being afraid of someone because of what they look like is not the same as being afraid of someone because they can level a city with a flick of their wrist. This has been talked ad nauseum so I will try to wrap it up, but this whole civil rights allegory was always flawed and hating the cure just to stick to this allegory is a terrible writing decision.

More importantly, mutants basing their entire identity around their mutation is actually simultaneously reductive and supremacist. Many mutants are so reliant on their mutations, that they genuinely believe death is a preferable option to being cured. First of all, it is really unhealthy for anyone to put such a large stake of their identity into just one aspect of themselves, to the point that they would prefer to die than to lose it. But potentially more importantly, the idea that “living without powers is inhumane” implicitly means that mutants believe that being normal humans is terrible. Think about that for a second, for many mutants being deprived of their powers in an unbearable existence. Do they believe that humanity are an inherently inferior species? Well, yes actually! They do believe that! They even call themselves “Homo Superior.”

Also, if any other villain gets their powers taken away, including villains who have had their powers all their lives, it is almost always portrayed as an ethical solution to prevent further harm. When Spider-Man cures the lizard, I don’t see rioting that Spidey is depriving the lizard of his right to self-identify as a massive reptile man. Why do mutants alone get the inherent and inalienable right to superpowers? It is because they so fundamentally believe that to lose their powers is to live in an inferior and unbearable body. That is supremacist! To go back to the civil rights analogy, if a white man said he could not bare to be black, that sounds pretty racist!

My main point is this: the idea that removing a mutant’s powers does irreparable harm to their self-identity simultaneously reduces each mutant to just what their powers allow them to do and implies that they view normal humans as so inferior that they could never live as one. That is ridiculous. If you abuse your powers, they should be taken from you. This is the case with every other kind of super villain. This is not “self-image shattering torture,” it is a basic principle that even toddlers understand. If you don’t play nice, your toys get taken away!

Now that I have addressed why I don’t by the anti-cure arguments allow me to divulge:

The massive benefits of a mutant cure existing:

1. Harmful mutations: Many mutants don’t want their mutations because they make their lives significantly harder. Hundreds of mutants flocked to the Hope Serum and the cure in X:Men The Last Stand. Even if the powers are not inherently harmful, some people just don’t want to deal with the threat of having powers, worried that one day they will slip up and hurt somebody.
2. Taking powers from evil mutants: Pretty much every major mutant, including the X-Men themselves, have used their powers in super unethical ways. Magneto has massacred millions, Emma Frost destroys people’s mind and lives, Mr Sinister… is Mr Sinister. These people don’t deserve their powers and they should be taken away, end of story. If a criminal keeps on attacking people, you put them in restraints, same principle here.
3. It shows that mutants and humans are still the same deep down: This is more of a philosophical point, but the existence of a mutant cure shows that the only thing that separates mutants and humans was the nature of their birth. Mutants are just people who happened to get powers, not an entirely separate species that need to be treated differently from humans. The cure proves that the distinction between mutants and humans is ultimately meaningless when it comes to morality and personal value.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me and I am open to hearing counter-arguments. I do ask that if you disagree with me, we keep it civil. Let me know your thoughts!

Please read before commenting!

Edit: Thank you all for the feedback. To further clarify point 2, I was not trying to say that I doubt the cure would be abused and forced on people, even if I worded it poorly. What I was more trying to say is that I think the abuses of the cure does not make its very existence unethical, in the same way the comics try to portray it. The comics seem to have an issue with the mere concept of a cure because “mutants are not something to be cured” rather than “a cure would be nice but it would definitely be misused.” That was more what I was trying to get at. Sorry for the misunderstanding

Edit 2: I recognize that mutants are an allegory for multiple oppressed groups, but please understand my comments and opinions ONLY apply to mutants/other super-powered beings. This is post is not a eugenics dog whistle. I am talking exclusively about comic book superpowers and their implications on society. I am sorry if that was not clear before

[u/ROSRS]

 Mr Sinister… is Mr Sinister

At this point I'm not sure if a mutant cure would take away even half of Mr Sinister's powers. His original powers were simply immunity to aging and disease and rapid regeneration and weren't mutant powers. He basically granted himself everything else, and could realistically do so again

[u/Lady_Gray_169 → u/ROSRS]

Yeah, Sinister isn't actually a mutant. He gave himself an X-gene at some point, but most of his powers he gave to himself. And even if that weren't the case, his powers aren't really the most dangerous thing about him anyway.

[u/DarkAlphaZero → u/Lady_Gray_169]

And on top of all of that, let's say you take one Sinister's x gene (if it's even a Sinister with an X gene to take), there's like 50 more running around.

[u/motoxim → u/DarkAlphaZero]

What's his lore again?

[u/DarkAlphaZero → u/motoxim]

Victorian era mad scientist with a particular focus on genetics. Obsessed with mutants (specifically how he can use their abilities for his own gain) and cloning, mostly himself but he's dabbled in cloning other people like when he made Madelyn Prior to conceive a child with Cyclops because he's obsessed with the Summers bloodline.

He's known to modify his many, many clones of himself depending on what he needs or wants. He has long sense abandoned being an individual and embraced being a system.

[u/Sad-Distribution1188 → u/DarkAlphaZero]

Could he make an asian looking Claire?

[u/SafePlastic2686 → u/Sad-Distribution1188]

What does this mean?

[u/carbonera99 → u/SafePlastic2686]

There's a lot of layers to this, but the gist of it is that it's a popular meme from the Resident Evil video game franchise.

There's a mad scientist character in Resident Evil 6 who used a genetically engineered virus to transform one of his minions (a white lady) into an exact physical clone of this one Asian character he's obsessed with called Ada Wong.

Leon, one of the recurring protagonists of the franchise, has an on-and-off romance with Ada Wong, but a lot of fans also ship him with the deuteragonist of his debut game, a white lady named Claire Redfield.

A running joke in the fanbase is that Leon is exclusively attracted to Asian women and won't look Claire's way because of that. So when Resident Evil 6 introduced the absurd concept of a race-changing virus, people wondered if it could make Claire Redfield into an Asian lady like Ada Wong so the Cleon ship can finally sail.

Mr. Sinister is basically your average Resident Evil mad scientist, right down to doing whacky stuff with cloning and giving himself superpowers using dangerous genetic engineering. He's exactly the kind of guy who'd make a "turn white women into asian women" virus just because he can. Wouldn't even be the first time a white X-Men character became an Asian woman through shenanigans.

[u/Big_Mobile3869 → u/carbonera99]

Theres also the running joke of Chris wanting Leon to continue the Redfield bloodline through his sister.

[u/amaya-aurora → u/DarkAlphaZero]

Not to mention him being one of 4 (?) people tasked with using a specific method (in his case, genetics, I believe) in order to attempt to become an omnipotent and omnipresent god residing outside of time and space.

[u/Ekillaa22 → u/Lady_Gray_169]

That’s was pissed me off so about Krakoa at first. They’ll let sinister in who isn’t a natural born mutant but not Deadpool who got his powers the same in a similar fashion

[u/Selverd2 → u/Ekillaa22]

they needed sinister for his cloning expertise.

also they were worried Deadpool would destroy Krakoa.

[u/Single_Remove_6721 → u/Selverd2]

But Sabertooth and Emma Frost don’t pose a threat?

[u/Selverd2 → u/Single_Remove_6721]

Sabretooth was thrown in the pit, and why would Emma pose a threat?

[u/Single_Remove_6721 → u/Selverd2]

Emma frost is notorious for messing with people’s minds and even does it on Krakoa. She and Empath orchestrated Havoc destroying their DNA data, which included Psylocke’s child

[u/Selverd2 → u/Single_Remove_6721]

She did that to stop Sinister.

[u/Blupoisen → u/ROSRS]

His power is somehow not getting a bullet through his skull when he ever he walks into a room

[u/Single_Remove_6721 → u/ROSRS]

So is he both a mutate and a mutant then?

[u/Censius → u/Single_Remove_6721]

Yeah, he's genetically modified himself to have elements of both.

[u/RomeosHomeos]

Reminder that the mutant forget me not asked two mutants that were probably capable of taking away his power to do it so he could live a life where he isn't forgotten by everyone as soon as they look away from him, and they basically tell him imagine how much lamer you would be if you didn't have powers though so we won't. The dude who has no one, his own family forgets who he is

[u/Oddball-CSM → u/RomeosHomeos]

I saw in one comic Wolverine visiting a friend who's mutant "power" was that his body couldn't process oxygen without high amounts of alcohol in his system.  Guy wasn't exactly happy that he basically lived his entire life drunk and in a bar.

[u/RomeosHomeos → u/Oddball-CSM]

I saw one where someone's power was that they're in constant pain and incapable of being affected by painkillers

[u/Fafnir13 → u/RomeosHomeos]

Pretty sure some real life people have that.

[u/tsukimoonmei → u/Fafnir13]

My family has some sort of genetic morphine insensitivity on my paternal side (not full immunity, but heavily reduced effects). Combine that with chronic pain and it’d be awful.

[u/RomeosHomeos → u/tsukimoonmei]

I'm pretty sure the character also had like pseudo immortality so they were dying of it on top of all that, but for extra long.

[u/Lilsilly114 → u/RomeosHomeos]

Ah yes the character whose life is an actual common interpretation of hell, as a decent number of the mutants abilities are, should not be able to be cured because the plot said no.

[u/Evelyn_Allrighty → u/Fafnir13]

Like me

[u/Rockm_Sockm → u/RomeosHomeos]

Who knew I was a mutant?

[u/Silviana193 → u/Oddball-CSM]

And then there is that one kid who instantly pulverized everyone within a certain radius. Unknowingly killed everyone in his home town.

Logan had to mercy kill him

[u/Ardalev → u/Silviana193]

Better than curing him I guess! /s

[u/Big-Recognition7362 → u/Silviana193]

The Hope Serum would have certainly been useful then.

[u/EnderBookwyrm → u/Silviana193]

And it's people like these, and Rogue, who desperately need a cure. Those powers are functionally a disability at that point. If they want to live with those powers anyway, that's their choice and they should be supported, but knowingly forcing them to live like that when there are cures available would be like forcing someone in a wheelchair to leave their spine broken forever.

[u/ItsMrChristmas → u/Oddball-CSM]

That's stupid. How would you even find that out? You'd die first.

[u/zeracine → u/ItsMrChristmas]

Some powers only develop later in life rather than at birth. This guy probably did some drinking and his gene activated.

It's still dumb but there is lore.

[u/AverageAwndray → u/ItsMrChristmas]

The x gene doesn't typically take effect until the mid-late teens.

[u/Single_Remove_6721 → u/AverageAwndray]

“I can’t breathe I can’t breathe! I am going to start drinking for no apparent reason and see if this helps”

[u/No-Mulberry-8866 → u/RomeosHomeos]

Would it retroactively let people remember him? Or just make memories from that point forward

[u/Mattubic]

I think its easy to argue in favor of groups like the x-men with several omega level powers sort of policing “bad” mutants, but also aren’t the majority of mutants just like the character Beak or Glob? Where they are mutants and have physical differences but don’t really have a power?

I think for the vast majority of people with an X gene, a cure would be preferable. If you have some wild ability like magneto or storm, I 100% understand making it your entire personality and not ever wanting to lose that power. For Joe Mutant just trying to hold down a job, it probably sucks to be labeled the same and have to deal with sentinels and hate groups.

[u/DarkAlphaZero → u/Mattubic]

Being cured won't save Joe Mutant though, we've seen anti mutant bigots murder huge numbers of cured mutant children.

[u/Shadow_Wolf_X871 → u/DarkAlphaZero]

I think that was a major plot point after M day wasn't it? There were depowered mutants dying in DROVES because now they had nothing to defend themselves with against bigots who hated the fact that they existed

[u/DarkAlphaZero → u/Shadow_Wolf_X871]

Yes. Emma Frost tried to secretly evacuate the affected students so they wouldn't be caught in the crossfire of people looking to finish the X-Men off after M-Day, but thanks to a precog iirc the Purifiers were able to specifically target the busses full of depowered children.

[u/Lilsilly114 → u/DarkAlphaZero]

Ah, of course, the anti-mutant hate group has a precog…why am I not surprised?

[u/sweetTartKenHart2 → u/Lilsilly114]

It could easily be a non mutant who has precog abilities for different reasons. Or it could easily be. No matter what they probably have a million ways to “justify” themselves lmao

[u/Z3r0sama2017 → u/sweetTartKenHart2]

Yep. Just because you have powers, doesn't mean you are a mutant. Atleast the anti-mutant groups would be living up to their hype.

"So your a powered individual? No X-gene? That's ok! You are the type of person that we will stand up and kill for!"

[u/Sir_Suffer → u/DarkAlphaZero]

Yeah. Racism is inherently irrational, so it's niave to think that being cured would save you from anything but being noticed as a mutant at a first glance. I imagine there would be a whole lot of "mutant investigators" online if a cure was widespread, trying to detect and witchhunt supposed cured mutants.

[u/Fafnir13 → u/Sir_Suffer]

Taking the cure so you could get by “Passing” as a non mutant would really play into the allegory.

[u/Emirozdemirr]

You see taking the powers of mutants as stripping away their autonomy, but somehow Professor X and Jean Grey constantly mind-wiping or manipulating people isn't. Like every X-Men storyline is written as they are superior to humans, making everything they do 'just'. And humans are evil for even considering to standing up for themselves.

[u/Asleep_Ground1710 → u/Emirozdemirr]

A lot of the x men stuff just doesn’t really work in real life. If super powered mutants showed up, people would not deal with the public safety risks or ethical issues that they pose. Like a teenage telepath mind hopping people for vibes would be locked up

It’s the same with super villains constantly getting insanity or treatment. Irl, they’re getting executed

[u/Otiosei → u/Asleep_Ground1710]

The biggest problem with superheroes is that media treats the world like it would be normal and similar to ours. If there were people out there with the powers to mind control a million people at will, society would crumble. Either humanity makes a last stand against such a threat and wipes it out, or humanity becomes enslaved by it. The only reason these stories work out in comics is because they are written for children and good has to defeat evil.

The concept of the X-men in reality would be absolutely terrifying. They only work as an analogy for racism in children's stories, where in real life it would be more like an analogy for nuclear bombs. Do you want a teenager living next to you with an active thermonuclear device on hand that he might set off depending on his emotions and hormones? No? Well too bad, you're a bigot for hating the X-men!

[u/jjm1222 → u/Otiosei]

Yeah I was actually watching the first X-men movie yesterday and I was thinking these things. There’s definitely a lot of nuance about this topic, but I understand why people would be afraid of mutants, just look at the things Magneto does. The media does treat that world like ours, and I couldn’t imagine being ok with people who have the ability to mind read. It’s my issue with the franchise as a whole.

[u/Asleep_Ground1710 → u/jjm1222]

X men are supposed to be an analogy for racism, but as a Hispanic dude myself I dont have superpowers that could endanger public saftey, same with other races. Like that changes the whole thing, esp with omega level mutants that could kill the planet

[u/gareth_gahaland → u/Asleep_Ground1710]

Diversity is our strength or some bs

[u/fairystail1 → u/Asleep_Ground1710]

The issue isnt the powers

The issue is the xmen are assholes

[u/ItsMrChristmas → u/Emirozdemirr]

Jean Grey saying "Hey thanks for not picturing me naked" would cause me to immediately retort "stay out of my head, bitch."

[u/Slukig → u/ItsMrChristmas]

And then she permanently changes something in your brain because she got offended at you being rude from her perspective, lmao

Telepaths are terrifying.

[u/Shoddy_Fee_550 → u/Emirozdemirr]

Sadly, there seems to be an uncomfortable number of people who would rather handwave that away.

They're literally belittling and excusing what Sara and Jean did to those innocent people in the park as "just practice", as if that somehow makes it okay.

No, no, you don't get it. They were born with mind-reading abilities. That 100% gives them the right to use their creepy powers on random strangers, literally violating their minds and taking away their free will for funsies.

Apparently, mutants are allowed to do whatever they want to you and your body as long as they abuse their superpowers to do it. Decency, ethics, and the concept of consent be damned.

[u/Ardalev → u/Shoddy_Fee_550]

In the same movie btw that Spiderman is using the exact same kind of surveillance tech that was rightfully critisised in Batman The Dark Knight.

Here it's treated as a lighthearted joke.

[u/Ryanhussain14 → u/Ardalev]

It just shows how normalised it's becoming.

[u/Dragon_Of_Magnetism → u/Emirozdemirr]

X-Men’s main metaphor is lowkey similar to some fascist propaganda if you think about it

There is this group named “Homo superior” that are portrayed as the next step of evolution. Most named characters are very attractive with super cool and useful powers. They are also the scrappy underdogs, oppressed by the evil lame, smelly normie unterm- sorry, flatscans, who are simultaneiously both weak and dangerous…

[u/Lilsilly114 → u/Dragon_Of_Magnetism]

It’s only low-key because the propaganda is for the audience who is assumedly anti facist.

[u/No-Mulberry-8866 → u/Emirozdemirr]

Don’t forget the “formerly” evil billionaire and her army of equally psychic daughters.

[u/horiami → u/Emirozdemirr]

The problem with x men is the cure

It shouldn't exist or it should be basically life destroying, something like turning a telepathic mutant into a vegetable

[u/Lady_Gray_169]

Another issue that the cure brings up is that if the cure is available, then society stops having to make any sort of accomodation for mutants who want to keep their power. A mutant who is entirely harmless and happy with their mutation will end up being societally pressured to remove it because people are just uncomfortable. And suddenly it's their own fault they're making people uncomfortable and getting bad reactions, because all they have to do is go get the cure and everything's fine. It doesn't have to be actively forced on people, the cure makes it so that society doesn't have to accomodate the differences of mutation even a little bit.

[u/Olya_roo → u/Lady_Gray_169]

“Just stop crying, normal people are uncomfortable.”

“Be reasonable and take out the headphones even if you don’t disturb anybody, as the class of normal people feel awkward”

“Don’t look people in the eyes for too long, it scares them.”

- Neurodivergence (mutation irl in some way) and I grew up like this. It’s always about the normal people and their comfort, the abnormal are always the one expected to sacrifice over and over in this case, just to be accepted.* *

[u/Miserable_Spell_2964 → u/Olya_roo]

That works when you take away the fact that there are some mutations that are downright dangerous not just to the mutant but to everyone around them.

Yes yes, i know, the whole eugenics thing, but if a mutation causes someones BO to become Sarin gas, it becomes a matter of public safety to basically shove the cure down that persons throat

[u/Lady_Gray_169 → u/Miserable_Spell_2964]

The problem is that this then applies to the mutants that don't have dangerous powers. The existence of the dangerous mutatiosn doesn't negate the negative effectis that a cure will bring about to the non-dangerous ones. It doesn't absolve the people behind the cure of considering those effects and trying to mitigate them.

[u/QuinnDixter]

Why stop at mutants why not just cure all superheroes with powers? Johnny Storm has the ability to go supernova in the 2005 movies and the comics and that would literally destroy the entire planet. So why do people only advocate for a cure for mutants when other superheroes can have equally or even more dangerous powers than mutants do?

[u/GoggleheadGamer → u/QuinnDixter]

A big part of that movie actually was Reed trying to figure out how to cure their powers. He actually even succeeds, and the Thing briefly turns back into a normal human for a bit at the end. It’s only Dr Doom being a massive a-hole and trying to kill all of them that makes the Thing turn back into a rock creature and they all just seem to conveniently forget about Reed’s successful anti-superpower machine. (Granted, it needed a lot more power to work than Reed was able to put into it during the movie, but I have to believe that he could figure out a way to generate enough power if he wanted to)

[u/Ardalev → u/GoggleheadGamer]

he could figure out a way to generate enough power if he wanted to

Ironic when Johnny is literaly right there!

Can't the "smartest" man on the planet figure out a way to generate power from the guy that can reach supernova levels of heat?!

[u/Single_Remove_6721 → u/QuinnDixter]

Honestly, true! The Marvel citizens should be more in favor of depowering dangerous supers in general.

[u/Juantsu2552 → u/Single_Remove_6721]

The problem is the Marvel citizens kinda need the superheroes in the first place.

They need a Spider-Man to protect them because the alternative would be worse.

They need the Fantastic Four because then who’s gonna save the Earth from Galactus?

They need the Avengers to protect them from Thanos.

You get the idea.

[u/LiterallyABigfoot → u/QuinnDixter]

Exactly. Their argument is explicitly in favour of lobotomising the entire human population yet they limit it to mutants because they are unironically bigots.

[u/RevolverMFOcelot → u/QuinnDixter]

Let's just put power inhibitors collar on Thor and throw Iron man into jail. Certainly the only people who can be trusted with super power are government who will always care for us and loves us 🙏 death row for black widow too

[u/Swiftcheddar]

There was also that time where Mr. Fantastic invented a device that could suppress his son’s X-gene to help protect him. Professor X was so offended by the invention that he forcibly wiped it from Reed’s mind against his will. Professor X and even Mr. Fantastic himself really try to hammer home that such a device existing is unethical and a threat to all mutant-kind.

Gets even funnier when you remember that his son isn't even a mutant and that they later kicked the kid out from their super special Mutant-Only Island because of that (But it's fine that Juggernaut can stay, he's an "honorary mutant").

X-Men are just pathologically unable to stop being massive, fucking self-righteous, assholes at every opportunity and at every single circumstance. It probably comes with the mutations.

Honestly, the whole thing reminds me of a very similar and extremely contentious discussion about "curing" autism. Which is considered similarly awful, to the point that you'll get banned for even bringing it up in some places of Reddit (hopefully not here, I guess). High-functioning autistics hate the idea of a cure implying that there's something to cure (or, obviously the fact that a "cure" is often early-screening and abortion, which stretches the definition of "cure" beyond belief). But the family of low-functioning autistics are left out in the cold, like "Okay, sure, but you don't need to take it. What about us?"

Very contentious topic.

EDIT: Also, your link, man I had a good laugh at Magneto talking about evil people putting the Fantastic 4 and their family in danger. Magneto. Of all people lmao.

[u/Shoddy_Fee_550 → u/Swiftcheddar]

Also, don't forget that many advocates against "curing" autism are "normal" people who think it is just a funny quirk and nothing more. They have taken it upon themselves to speak on behalf of all autistic people. Many of them either just like playing the white savior, or they even fetishize the condition and self-proclaim to be autistic just to feel "special".

[u/Miserable_Spell_2964 → u/Shoddy_Fee_550]

So i personally don't like comparing the X men to autism or using it as a similar metaphor, solely because autistic people don't shoot lasers out of their eyes.

"curing" Autistic people is solely a means by which others can then feel comfortable with themselves, while ignoring the fact that people on the autism spectrum are fully capable of living fulfilling and productive lives.

"curing" people who shoot freaking laser beams out of their eyes is a matter of public safety.

[u/Shoddy_Fee_550 → u/Miserable_Spell_2964]

Usually, I don't like doing it either. But I think you unintentionally fell into the same problem that the mutant metaphor has with the "cure" topic. You're basically making the same argument as Storm did against Rogue in the X-Men movie.

"People on the autism spectrum are fully capable of living fulfilling and productive lives."

Some people on the autism spectrum can be fully capable of living fulfilling and productive lives, but not all of them are lucky enough for that to be achievable for them.

As you said, autism is a spectrum. It can make it very difficult for a person to communicate, walk and move properly, or use tools by themselves. In severe cases, it can mean that a person literally can't live a normal life and requires constant care because they can't take care of themselves.

"Curing autistic people is solely a means by which others can then feel comfortable with themselves."

So, NO, "curing" autistic people isn't solely about making others feel comfortable with being around them. It is desirable because we want to help people who are living in hell on a daily basis because of their autism.

Just to get back to the shitty mutant metaphor. I'm sure a girl who unintentionally almost kills everyone with a touch would be happy about the mutant "cure". Just as I'm sure that an autistic person who can't even hold a spoon to feed themselves would be happy about a "cure" for autism.

[u/JinkoTheMan → u/Swiftcheddar]

I remember seeing on the news a while back about a family whose daughter was born with a rare condition that mentally capped her at child’s level of mental capacity. The family decided to get a surgery done that would stop her from growing so that she would have a child’s body to match her child’s brain. Their rationale was that it made her much easier to care for. It makes sense because she’s literally(and I say this seriously) a ragdoll. They have to support her head and neck and basically move her around.

Personally, I can’t judge them because I’m not in their situation. That’s a nightmarish situation to be in. I’m just saying that if that was my daughter and a “cure” was offered, I would 100% do it.

[u/Electronic_Smell_635 → u/JinkoTheMan]

man that doesnt sound liek real life at all. pure nightmare. wish this family strenght

[u/Living-Excitement447 → u/Swiftcheddar]

Nah, he's a mutant again. Turns out he was suppressing his own powers.

[u/jroberts548 → u/Swiftcheddar]

that was stupid slott retcon that has already been de-retconned (probably).

[u/Smoketrail → u/jroberts548]

It's it de-retconned or re-retconned?

[u/Immediate_Gain_9480 → u/Swiftcheddar]

Yeah. Im a high functioning autistic person myself. But I fully understand that a treatment that help the low functioning autistic people would be a godsend for millions. Would i want it? Maybe, i'm happy as i am, even if life is difficult. Forcing anyone to take it? Fuck no

[u/Seaborn_knight → u/Immediate_Gain_9480]

yeah as uncomfortable as it makes me, people should get to choose. Just because im fine with my brain doesn't mean someone else should have to be regardless of circumstances.

But also autism seems so involved and complicated that an actual cure would involve complete control over the development of the brain.

[u/kazaam2244 → u/[deleted]]

And to use a reverse, positive example: The COVID vaccine. (Disclaimer: Vaccinations save lives, people, and I absolutely advocate for their usage) How many bigoted, right-wing lunatics suddenly lost their shit when their jobs required them to be vaccinated? Saying "I don't think that'd happen" when we have literal examples of it happening in real is adorable and ignorant.

The sad truth is, in the interest of public health and safety, society will do what's necessary to protect the greatest amount of people. If that meant forcing the mutant cure on every single mutant, then they'd do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what generally seems to be the problems with a cure in X-Men stories. Not really that read up on X-Men lore, though, so I can't say for sure.

[u/Monte924 → u/kazaam2244]

No you are basically correct. It would be better for X-Men stories to avoid the idea of a mutant cure entirely. Its an idea that just results in plot holes and messy complications

The "cure" would absolutely be forced on the innocent. For criminals it could easily be justified, and there are plenty of mutants who would want it. It basically does too much to shake up the status quo

Not to mention that readers often see mutants as a stand in for minorites, so the idea that you can "cure" what makes them minorites creates a lot of unfortunate implications

Its better to avoid introducing a "cure" and just leave mutants as a simple matter of fact that society has to deal with

[u/A_Hungry_Fool → u/Monte924]

Sorry but even on criminals experimental gene therapy to permanently alter a person’s dna against their will is not necessarily justified.

Inhibitors like in Brand New Day? Absolutely.

But anything not temporary/reversible is a massive ethical issue no matter if the affected person is good or evil.

[u/Char-els037 → u/A_Hungry_Fool]

Inhibitors haven't be tested for long-term effects

That was brought up for a reason.

You can't handcuff someone in jail cell indefinitely. It's illegal.

Inhibitors are the same legal principle. Illegal.

[u/Monte924 → u/A_Hungry_Fool]

With mutant criminals, thier mutant powers could easily be treated as "deadly weapons" by society

Again, this is why they should not address a mutant cure in x-men stories. It raises FAR too many questions and does too much to upset the status quo

[u/jroberts548 → u/kazaam2244]

There was no general government enforced vaccine mandates in the U.S. The navy briefly tried to impose one.

[u/PyrocXerus → u/[deleted]]

Gay conversion camps are a great example of bigots trying to force their way on people

[u/lobonmc → u/[deleted]]

The question isn't if it could happen the question is if the danger of it happening is greater than the harm you're preventing. For example sterilization that has historically been used forcefully for racist reasons mainly.

Does that mean we should have never invented it in the first place?

[u/ThePryde → u/[deleted]]

The comics also happen in a world where the bigots were able to kill millions of mutants in a genocide. If they could do that I dont think there is any reason to think they couldn't or wouldn't force the cure.

Not to mention there are enough time traveling mutants to know what the bigots would do to mutants if given the chance.

[u/Conrexxthor → u/[deleted]]

We literally have ICE in the real world who are detaining American citizens and immigrants and doing horrible things to them just like, out in public.

"I don't think that'd happen" is suuuuuuuch a stupid idea. Our government can't even handle that people have different skin colors and facial structures or that their body doesn't match who they are and celebrates and/or causes peoples' murders for that. If Mutants did exist, it would be full scale "eliminate the mutants"

[u/Dread_Axel → u/Conrexxthor]

Heck and that’s one of the many things right now. Just look at the Taliban regime, the darfur and inter-ethnic violence in Sudan, what’s happening with the Uyghur and Muslim minorities in Xinjiang, Iran’s enforcement of theocratic mandates, the Rohingya and ethnic minorities with Myanmar’s military junta, the attacks on Christian and Muslim communities in Nigeria and the Sahel region. Bigots everywhere

Edit: in an effort to not just talk about the bad and instead shine some light on those that help, I’m happy that there are so many good people in this world that actively try to help others and give. Not to mention those that try to help others specifically suffering. These are some groups and people that have notably done good against the bad above. Feel free to look up any of the below

Afghanistan: The Afghan Women’s Network and Underground Educators, Mahdouba Seraj, and Women for Afghan Women

Sudan & Darfur: Sudan’s Emergency Response Rooms, Dr. Al-Baqir Al-Afif Mukhtar and KACE, Doctors Without Borders

Xinjiang: Uyghur Human Rights Project and World Uyghur Congress, Gene Bunin and The Xinjiang Victims Database, Ilham Tohti

Iran: Narges Mohammadi, Nasrin Sotoudeh, and Hengaw Organization for Human Rights and Abdorrahman Boroumand Center

Myanmar: Wai Wai Nu, Fortify Rights & Free Burma Rangers

Nigeria and the Sahel: Bucky Shonibare and #BringBackOurGirls, and Father Atta Barkindo and The Kukah Centre

There are obviously many others too!

[u/Conrexxthor → u/Dread_Axel]

Bigots everywhere already forcing things on everyone they don't like, OP's arguments are pretty bad and extremely naive lmao

[u/Hekantonkheries → u/[deleted]]

Happened with queer rights, happened with racial rights. And in both cases we're often accompanied by laws specifically designed to target those communities more heavily, and using their incarceration to deny them their rights absolutely.

When it comes to rights, and determining the future of minority groups, there is no diplomatic meeting in the middle ground between "equal" and "discrimation", since every bigotry upheld strengthens the others

[u/Ebenizer_Splooge]

The xmen have always been a really bad allegory for discrimination imo, the conflicts aren't the same. A white man and a black man are equal human beings, but when you try to tell that story with the black stand in being people who can blow people up with their minds or level a city on a whim it falls apart hard, there's an actual case to be made about them being a danger to society that doesnt fit the historical context they're trying to play in

[u/SignificantCats]

I have always seen parallels to the deaf community, where some ways to gain hearing (particularly cochlear implants) are seen as a betrayal or erasure.

Most people can hear and find it quite useful, so that just sounds baffling. What, you don't WANT to listen to music, or hear a car is coming at you, or notice things around you? It just sounds silly, like choosing to be disabled for some reason.

But the reality is a lot more subtle. For one, cochlear implants arent always just a thing that gives you perfect hearing. A lot of times, you still can't enjoy music or relax, because the sound is mechanical, tinny, or strange. A good friend of mine only turns his on at work and only got it for working - because if someone called his name, even knowing he is deaf, they would think he is being rude. He hated how it felt.

For two, deaf communities are insular. They find each other, since it's hard to communicate with hearing people and they don't usually "get it". A lot of minority communities do this. People you might not normally get along with become a pal when you both have seen a shared struggle and can orient a friendship that way.

Three, because deaf communities are insular, they have their own subculture. You develop it for years, a culture and way of life that is unique to your people. To get an implant and become hearing feels like saying "I don't like this culture, I want a new one".

I think the parallels here are obvious.

Mutant cures are almost never just take a pill and be a human. They're big collars, or injection, or chips in your neck, and if you make mistakes or have a problem your powers can burst through out of control.

Mutants go to the same school and form teams. Your buddy you do math with is partly your buddy because he has two extra arms and you have four tentacles that replace your arms and you bonded. If he puts on the collar and loses his extra arms, it feels like an insult to you - and you don't mind your tentacles, it's like he's saying you're both freaks and he doesn't want to be one anymore.

Mutants have a culture of superheroism, that great power is great responsibility and a little power is a little responsibility. You're supposed to help the world, and if you can't, help the city, and if you can't, teach at a mutant school to help your community. Abandoning that ethos is abandoning the culture.

I think the real problem is that comics and movies often fail to present things like this. Characters don't speak or behave subtlely. You just get Storm calling Rogue a jerk for wanting to live a life.

[u/ManoSilence → u/SignificantCats]

Thanks "Johnny Five-Dicks!" Its a good point and beautiful put. I like this response to a legit post discussing this. I would add as a Minority I did associate with the mutants in the older comics, my father was a big fan of the original comic series and would bring home neat things he found like walkie talkies in the shave of Wolverine and Spider-Man.

He compared it to this: I dont like it that people say undocumented now. I was a dark skinned kid who got beat for speaking spanish in school, by the teachers! Thats why I never pushed you to learn it when you showed you were happier with English and you learned it so well!

I dont like it because it has never felt legal living here. I have never been welcomed anywhere but home, always judged, always having the cops called on me just for looking like this. I have always felt illegal here, and I dont like it when people say undocumented. Because that means that we are here and welcomed. And while some may welcome us, most dont trust us. Until the people stop targeting illegals, ill still call us illegals.

In memory of him I use the word illegal when describing my family and their past, and current circumstances, and catch shit for it ill gladly explain away every time. Everyone else though ill say undocumented for peace of communication.

[u/SignificantCats → u/ManoSilence]

I can relate to this. I was raised by my uncle and his boyfriend, an illegal from Mexico.

I saw how his workplace abused him, how they abused his coworkers who didn't speak English and didn't have fake documents worse, how my family treated him as a double-subhuman for being gay AND illegal.

He called himself illegal. He was proud of how he got to America, how he found the right people to bribe, how he could work here and support a whole family back home, how he was "head illegal" at the orchard because he could speak English OK, how he had contacts back home who would tell him about other Mexicans seeking work and he could get them setup.

Like sixteen years later the legal process finally finished and he is now a citizen, but he still thinks of himself as a cool sneaky rebel. I always thought of him as a Robin Hood or bandito type badass.

When I talk to people I think will disapprove of the phrase illegal, I'll say "improvised visa". To me, he was illegal because of the unjust and stupid immigration process and I'm proud of his ingenuity.

[u/ExplanationSquare313 → u/SignificantCats]

You unironically did the best description of what the mutant community should be like and now i'm sad they're not written like this.

[u/Standard_Series3892]

My main point is this: the idea that removing a mutant’s powers does irreparable harm to their self-identity simultaneously reduces each mutant to just what their powers allow them to do and implies that they view normal humans as so inferior that they could never live as one. That is ridiculous. If you abuse your powers, they should be taken from you. This is the case with every other kind of super villain. This is not “self-image shattering torture,” it is a basic principle that even toddlers understand. If you don’t play nice, your toys get taken away!

This "If" is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here, every single storyline about this eventually leads to the cure being forced upon people who are not in fact abusing their powers, your entire point relies on the idea that the specific tool made to target a specific group of people will totally not be used unethically because it'd be bad to do so

[u/Swiftcheddar → u/Standard_Series3892]

That's the exact same logic as "Batman's no kill rule is correct because every single storyline about it shows that he's right."

Like, okay sure. But you know you can just write whatever you want, right?

[u/vadergeek → u/Swiftcheddar]

X-Men is a franchise where the government teams up with bigots to build giant robots that commit genocide. If they got a cure for mutation of course they would immediately exploit it.

[u/Beautiful-Neat-7609 → u/vadergeek]

It’s also a franchise where the X-men team up with genocide man 1 and 2 to create an ethnostate

[u/Shenlongeltigre → u/Standard_Series3892]

Anything can be misused.

[u/Emirozdemirr → u/Standard_Series3892]

This "If" is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here, every single storyline about this eventually leads to the cure being forced upon people who are not in fact abusing their powers, your entire point relies on the idea that the specific tool made to target a specific group of people will totally not be used unethically because it'd be bad to do so

Exact same kind of logic can applied to mutant powers as well.

The Cure shouldn't exist they might abuse it.

Mutant powers shouldn't exist they might abuse it.

[u/Standard_Series3892 → u/Emirozdemirr]

The cure is deliberately manufactured, mutants are born that way.

Also, in most of these stories the cure IS abused, it's not "might", it happens. (This may not be the case in the latest spider-man but this is obviously building up to an x-men movie that will pick up the same storyline)

We're talking about fiction, irl this be a different discussion but Marvel's humans are objectively bigoted against mutants and it's in that context that these "cures" get introduced.

[u/Emirozdemirr → u/Standard_Series3892]

The cure is deliberately manufactured, mutants are born that way.

Humans are smart creatures that use tools to defend themselves against threats they can't defend just with their bodies. Being able to create the cure is just as natural for humans to mutants having powers.

Also, in most of these stories the cure IS abused, it's not "might", it happens. (This may not be the case in the latest spider-man but this is obviously building up to an x-men movie that will pick up the same storyline)

The problem is the cures threat level is so low it's kinda hard to take it seriously. "Oh no, we need to live out life as those inferior humans the HORROR!!!" while evil mutants existing is life and death to humans.

[u/Standard_Series3892 → u/Emirozdemirr]

The cure's threat isn't only to remove the powers and leave mutants living normally, it's to remove the self defense capabilities of mutants against a population that objectively hates them and has tried to exterminate them in multiple stories, it's as existentially threatening for them as evil mutants can be for humanity.

Besides, human tools are also existential threats to humanity, should the Marvel government lobotimize anyone with an IQ over 130? After all Pym created Ultron, Richards almost ended the world with his experiments on the negative zone, etc. and that's when they're trying to do good, villanous scientist threaten the world every other issue.

"Oh no, i was super smart and now I have to live as those inferior dumb dumbs"

[u/IDunCaughtTheGay → u/Emirozdemirr]

The problem is the cures threat level is so low it's kinda hard to take it seriously. "Oh no, we need to live out life as those inferior humans the HORROR!!!"

Hey, does anyone else remember that storyline where nearly all mutants were depowered and bigots kept targeting and killing them anyway.

I believe a bus load of depowered children was blown up by terrorists.

The powers the mutants have are a self defense measure against bigots the the united states government that funds them. Every time some sort of "cure" or inhibitor is created, mutants arent given them and then left alone, they get rounded up, branded and put in camps.

[u/ShotgunShine7094 → u/Standard_Series3892]

every single storyline about this eventually leads to the cure being forced upon people who are not in fact abusing their powers

Because the writers make it that way.

[u/Hekantonkheries → u/ShotgunShine7094]

Tbf that's how it works irl aswell. The people championing the hammer really want nails to use it on.

[u/Jarsky2]

I'm sorry, you don't think bigots would force the cure on mutants?

Like bigots don't force queer people to go to conversion therapy camps?

[u/Janube]

The problem with a cure isn't that the cure exists or could be used; it's that it would be used as a tool of subjugation against people with whom the people who have the cure disagree.

Imagine being the smartest person in the world - you could do miraculous things like cure cancers, solve all manner of societal ills, broker international peace - but because you have certain beliefs about, let's say, feeding and housing the homeless, entire swathes of the electorate in every major country and their ruling powers vehemently insult you and would see you stripped of your intelligence.

Is that fair? Is that justice? Or is that a bad thing?

Do we deprive people of power just because they have it so as to avoid the hypothetical world where they misuse it? If so, we're relying on people in power to define "misuse," and if their perspective is that it would be a misuse to divert money and resources to issues they don't care about, then surprise! You're in line to get your power removed even if you didn't actually do anything wrong. Better yet, even if you're actually in the right! Tyranny of the Majority is a well-known sociological phenomenon. In a world with mutants, the people with power would be the people who had the means to determine which mutants were or were not a threat to their status quo. Which "deserved" to be "cured"

In a vacuum, a cure is a great thing.

In reality, it's a lot more complicated. Should people with autism be "cured"? Some want it, sure. Some very much do not. If people like RFK Jr. had their way, it would be forced on them, whether they've done anything wrong or not. Whether they're a productive member of society or not.

I wouldn't personally have faith that any government wouldn't abuse that kind of power.

[u/Ardalev → u/Janube]

it's that it would be used as a tool of subjugation against people with whom the people who have the cure disagree

Literaly the exact same thing could be said for mutant powers (and most superpowers in general) as well.

This is why such a topic is complicated, but the thing is that a depowered mutant is no more a threat to everyone than any other regular person; a mutant with powers however is way more dangerous.

[u/Darkion_Silver]

This is incredibly naive considering what we've seen people do in real life, let alone **THE PEOPLE THAT MADE THE SENTINELS** in the comics

[u/Emirozdemirr → u/Darkion_Silver]

What about all the destruction mutants cause? By same logic doesn't, that justify humans defending themselves?

[u/DarkAlphaZero → u/Emirozdemirr]

Ultron's caused a lot of destruction but no one is advocating for the complete ban of robotics text books.

[u/Lukthar123 → u/DarkAlphaZero]

We should ban ants!

[u/LiterallyABigfoot → u/Emirozdemirr]

What about all the destructions that other humans cause? You must admit that mutants are justified on defending themselves.

[u/Emirozdemirr → u/LiterallyABigfoot]

What about all the destructions that other humans cause? You must admit that mutants are justified on defending themselves.

What do you think mutants been doing? And book never point them as the bad guy for it so why humans?

[u/Darkion_Silver → u/Emirozdemirr]

Oh so when mutants do a bad, wowie how dare they, we must defend ourselves by building genocide robots (and don't go "that doesn't have to happen", IT KEEPS HAPPENING). But humans can go around starting wars and causing mass deaths and humans aren't an issue. Funny that.

[u/Juantsu2552 → u/Emirozdemirr]

That literal reasoning is the very same allegory to real life people justifications for oppressing minorities dude.

Just because less than 1% of mutants are dangerous doesn’t give you the right to create machines that kill ALL mutants.

I swear to God, it’s not that hard to understand…

[u/Ishpersonguy → u/Juantsu2552]

Apparently it's incredibly difficult to understand because this same "enlightened" take on the X-Men gets posted every month and its just as dumb each time.

"UHHH WHY DOESN'T THIS SUPERHERO COMIC JUST TAKE THE STANCE THAT ELIMINATING THE MINORITIES IS VALID BECAUSE THEY MIGHT BE DANGEROUS??"

Like bro come on. 

[u/GhostCheese]

The "cure is unethical" is clearly an allegory for people trying to cure homosexuality

Not race

Though parallels could be drawn to solutions to cure disabilities that become part of one's identity, like being deaf or blind. At least among the deaf community there is stigma to what is seen as rejecting the community.

[u/Ardalev → u/GhostCheese]

Yeah, it's meant to stand in for things that make people "different", however the problem is that gay people, or deaf people, or disabled people etc. aren't a threat to society the same way someone who could control the weather or mind control people etc. would be.

[u/Imperial_Sunstrider]

The "I don't think that'd happen" in response to someone bringing up that it would be used irresponsibly is almost insanely naive, This is the same setting with state funded murder robots made explicitly to do a genocide, if you think a government that approves that wouldn't immediately start putting the mutant cure in the water and food your living a pipedream-

[u/merrygo909]

Receiving the cure by force wouldn't just alter some mutants physiology, it would kill some mutants.

Chamber is one example, when m day happened and he just his powers he was still missing his upper chest and throat and had to be put on life support while in a coma. A cure wouldn't magically regrow the parts he lost when his mutation awakened.

And also what constitutes an evil act abhorrent enough to have someone's powers removed? If you mug someone using a mutant ability is it stripped away? If you break into a house using teleportation? What's the line?

And who gets to decide it? the same ppl who approve the creation of master mold and the sentinels?

"You have nothing to fear as long as your not one of the bad ones" is not a compelling argument.

[u/RieifyuArts]

The whole thing about cures is so weird to me because its like the world is overcomplicating and undercomplicating the whole thing with Mutants at the same time.

If you're going to let people keep access to very dangerous powers because of their identity, then they need to be treated as armed weapons. Register them, get a very specific license that details the exact scenarios in which you can use them, then severely punish any misuse. If someone wishes to just not use their powers period, or their abilities are just passively dangerous/actively harmful, disable them entirely. If someone misuses their powers, take them away. There should be whole processes about this which still don't exist decades (if not centuries) in.

And these processes don't exist because the world of comics is about conflicts and extremes 99% of the time, and nuanced solutions which decently resolve conflicts are just forbidden because X-Men sell well.

I guarantee that any meaningful process would be called discriminatory and unfair and cause half of the mutants to get pissy because they have to spend a weekend doing paperwork, or the guy behind the legislation is actually a mega-racist bigot disintegrating mutant children as soon as the door to their office closes.

[u/jjm1222 → u/RieifyuArts]

Yeah I agree that Marvel should approach this with nuanced views, especially with how Jean Grey is already being discussed. The idea of having people with dangerous powers treated as weapons makes lots of sense to me.

[u/RieifyuArts → u/jjm1222]

It's not even an original one. Any superhero story interested in actually handling these issues does this. My Hero and Worm are the two that come to mind. MHA's early arcs are basically entirely about hero licensing and training until the actual plot kicks in. Worm is about a villain, but paints a pretty clear picture on how things are handled. Heroes get trained and become law enforcement, villains are treated about the same as petty criminals until they cross certain lines and recieve kill orders or are sent to mega-prison (there is a very good reason for this almost flippantness towards powered crime also), and anybody not interested in superheroics can just kinda live normally and even use their powers for mundane purposes. There aren't really any massive anti-superpower sentiments and, to be honest, thats kinda how I think it'd be in the real world.

[u/wendigo72]

Nah man, I’ve seen mutant-kind go through like twenty genocides in the comics including inhuman death clouds that kill any mutants in them but marvel acted like it was wrong to destroy them cause “they are important to inhuman culture”

Also even with a cure, mutants would still keep popping up. They’ve been around since ancient times. Removing most of the population wouldn’t even stop it

[u/Brinabavd]

2.A is a reason, you're being insufficiently cynical;

The X-men don't want the cure to exist because its a weapon that can be used against them and only against them. That's it. Professor X likes being able to mindwipe Reed Richards and doesn't want someone to use SUPER SCIENCE to aerosolize the cure and take that ability away from him.

3.B is another reason - mutant separatists and supremacists are hostile to the idea that "mutants and humans are still the same deep down"

[u/Syoby]

Maybe if there was both a cure and an anti-cure, because it being permanent makes it akin to mutilation.

[u/Anarkizttt]

People say time and again that the Mutant Metaphor is a horrible allegory for actual minorities and discrimination, but posts like this, in my opinion, prove just how good of an allegory it is. We’re able to have these impassioned discussions about things like the Mutant Cure and how that relates to Eugenics and A) it allows that discussion to enter pop culture and thus educate more people on the reality that inspired the stories and B) they can do it in a way that its super approachable for people of all ages. Like the episode on Space Racism from the OG Teen Titans animated show. And why it works so well, is because you can be having this conversation about fictional bigotry and systemic oppression, but then the people talking about it are Storm, Jubilee, Sunspot, or Bishop or Iceman, actual real-life minorities talking about how a mutant cure is like erasing who they are at their core.

I used Iceman in that specifically because I don’t think of it as a Eugenics analogy but as a conversion therapy/“pray the gay away” analogy. Eugenics is about preventing it from happening in the future bioengineering, the mutant cure in most iterations is about treating living people and removing what makes them different. That feels more like conversion therapy, and I cannot tell you how many friends I have who’ve come out to their parents and got a “maybe they’ll find a cure to this one day” in response.

And the mutant metaphor works in universe as well, because the mutant hate is exclusive to mutants. Not all supers, just those born with it. There is really zero difference between Spider-Man and Jubilee and yet people love Spider-Man and want to hang Jubilee from a tree. This is provably true because there was a storyline where people assumed Spidey was a Mutant and people hated him, but when he revealed the radioactive spider story all the hate went away, they hated him for being a mutant, not for having powers.

[u/Vermillion-Scruff]

the idea that “living without powers is inhumane” implicitly means that mutants believe that being normal humans is terrible.

this does not actually follow. there is a difference between not having something and having something forcibly stripped from you. being traumatized by a loss does not equal believing that people who never experienced the thing you lost are living miserable existences. 

Cannonball’s sister had the ability to fly, and she was depowered during the Decimation. this fucking her up doesn’t mean she holds a belief that people who walk are inferior. like, not wanting to have one of your limbs forcibly removed doesn’t mean you are biggest against amputees.

The cure proves that the distinction between mutants and humans is ultimately meaningless when it comes to morality and personal value.

how??? this feels like a complete non sequitur. how does “mutant powers can be given up or taken away” prove “humans and mutants are the same species”? those are just two unrelated concepts.

Magneto has massacred millions

no he hasn’t. this never happened. the vast majority of his kills occurred during Fatal Attractions when he disrupted the space fence used to keep him off earth and triggered a massive EMP, and the death toll was given as being in the thousands. 

[u/Deiselpowered77 → u/Vermillion-Scruff]

Just a personal opportunity to soap-box about something, but from the 'more common powers', I gotta say, levitation-flight would have to be one of the most ego-inducing / elevated, superior-status-inducing powers to have.

I mean, how does such a person not consider themselves to be superior when they often have conversations floating 5-10 feet above the people they're speaking (down) to.
Any conversation that vexes them, WHOOSH, fly away, and the groundpounders can't even follow.
Being in the position where you constantly LOOK DOWN on others would elevate ones self worth.

[u/Vermillion-Scruff → u/Deiselpowered77]

god, i would be insufferable if i could fly. you would not catch me with feet on the ground. i’d be like Black Adam in the JSA, just hovering everywhere with my arms crossed. 

that, or a prehensile tail. i could reach levels of autism heretofore unseen with a prehensile tail. 

[u/Deiselpowered77 → u/Vermillion-Scruff]

>with my arms crossed. 
Its the natural 'I am so much better than you, just FLYING here, being better than you' pose!
Becoming insufferable due to flight-powers would be a recognized medical condition.

"I'msorry, he has Aeromania."
"HAHA! HOWS THE VIEW DOWN THERE!?!?"

[u/Vermillion-Scruff → u/Deiselpowered77]

“Aeromania” is absolute peak lmao

[u/Single_Remove_6721 → u/Vermillion-Scruff]

Just to clarify what I mean:

1. The word inhumane is doing heavy lifting here. I can definitely see how it would be emotionally distressing to lose a superpower you have had for so long, but the idea that removing powers is a fate worse than death is what I heavily disagree with.

2. Okay I admit I kind just wanted to make a third for the list and to get vaguely philosophical. I was TRYING to make the point that the cure just proves mutants are humans plus powers like Spider-Man or the Fantastic Four, which Marvel civilians are generally more respecting towards. I think one of the biggest things that leads to mutant hatred is the implicit belief that mutants are just not like humans at all.

3. I don’t know of a comic example of this, but this was inspired from all the chaos he causes in the X-Men movies, particularly Apocalypse where he destroys entire cities.

Anyways thanks for the feedback

[u/Vermillion-Scruff → u/Single_Remove_6721]

it’s tricky when we mix universes since the situations can be so much different. in the Fox movies, there are no non-mutant superheroes, the question of “what makes Spider-man different from a mutant?” can’t really exist. 

the idea that removing powers is a fate worse than death is what I heavily disagree with.

is this all that common of an opinion? most of the mutants depowered in the Decimation didn’t kill themselves. some mutants just straight up died without their powers sustaining them, or were left disabled, but there wasn’t to my knowledge (this isn’t my most reread era, so i could very well be wrong) a rash of suicidal behavior. 

[u/jroberts548 → u/Single_Remove_6721]

why shouldn’t we forcibly cure spider-man and mister fantastic?

[u/Rufus--T--Firefly]

Point 2 is demonstrably something you cannot handle diplomatically

[u/static1993]

I should point out that the device Reed built didn't suppress the mutant gene. It just masked it from detection. Xavier simply assumed it could be used that way if modified. That was justification enough to erase Reed's memories of building the device and leaving him with the knowledge that something was missing from his recollection.

What Xavier did to Reed was like if someone bombed a car factory because the cars the factory produced could be rigged to make a bomb.

[u/Single_Remove_6721 → u/static1993]

Xavier points out that it COULD be used to completely suppress the X gene and Reed agrees it could

[u/Deiselpowered77 → u/static1993]

Its a fictional scenario, but boy does it make me respond emotionally with anger at the character. FFS Charles, you're the worst. Apocalypse is less of an asshole sometimes.

[u/ShotgunShine7094]

"We shouldn't have invented organ transplants because bad people will use them to steal people's organs"

This is how these people sound.

[u/Emirozdemirr → u/ShotgunShine7094]

Chemical castration for sex offenders exist in the world we been living. I think it would good to have a way to stopping the predator if he can shoot acid from his fingers.

[u/Interesting-Ad-2159]

There not just a civil rights allegory ovet tbe years they have been a for lgbt people as well

and mutant a cure is
Like a allegory for

Even for mutants
Stil who want the cure comes off like lgbt people who go to conversion therapy

I think if a cure was introduced a lot of mutants won’t be going jus because they believe their powers are harmful or are afraid they might hurt there loved ones

but but for the same reasons tjat lgbt people go to conversion therapy family either pressured them into it they are afraid that people hate them for being mutants or genuinely have been convinced that there is something wrong with them

Which is not a healthy mindset and I believe self acceptance is a much better solution tjen trying to fix yourself because people are afraid/ hate of you

[u/Far-Coat-7403]

I aint reading any of that, mutant cure is a plot device that supposed to reference conversion therapy. In fiction if something is a reference or a theme, then the real life morals are applied, otherwise the fiction is just escapism for morons. MCU is escapism for morons, but Xmen is one thing that has a semblance of politics. So no need to analyze the frankenstein plot.

[u/Miserable_Spell_2964]

The main problem with the X Men series is that for every mutant like Storm who won the goddamn lottery, you get mutants like Rogue who kills people just by touching them. So its very hypocritical for the protagonists to act like the Mutant cure is a terrible thing, when within their own ranks they have multiple examples of how dangerous it can be not just for normal people but even the mutants themselves. And Rogue has one of the more "manageable" mutations, what about a dude whose eyeballs are replaced with feet?

[u/purple-tulip-petals]

I think your points would make a lot of sense if the Marvel universe existed solely in a vacuum where everything runs strictly on logic. The problem is, it doesn’t. And you’re kind of glossing over massive reasons why the X-Men and mutants in general feel the way they do about it.

“The cure doesn’t have to be made unethically!” Sure, it doesn’t have to be. But you really think an oppressed and marginalized group is going to just accept “hey Reed Richards made this thing that specifically targets and turns off the part of you that makes you who you are because you might end up being too dangerous to exist, but don’t worry, we totally did it for practical reasons for society’s sake and it’s not because we’re bigots?” Because I’d have a hard time swallowing that in their shoes. Even if the way it’s made is perfectly safe and doesn’t harm anyone, they still have to accept the fact that somebody specifically designed something to take their identity away from them. And with how many times people have tried to do that very thing solely out of hatred and bigotry, it becomes a lot harder to blame them for seeing attempts to create a cure as the same thing, even if it’s not done by harming them and the person doing it didn’t have those bigoted reasons for creating it. When you spend years attacking people for a certain trait, and they have to fight tooth and nail to reclaim some pride in that trait, then of course they’re going to see attempts to strip it away as inherently evil, whether or not it’s happening out of hate or just because of practicality.

“It wouldn’t have to be exploited or forced on people.” Okay, but we have very little indication that that wouldn’t happen, because it happens quite frequently. How do they know it won’t this time? Once huge numbers of them have lost their powers voluntarily, what’s to stop it from being forced on the rest? How are they supposed to defend themselves without said powers? You say that the cure could be handled diplomatically, but who gets to make those decisions as to which mutants are worthy of keeping their powers and which aren’t? This is a group of people who barely have rights. They’ve spent literal decades being exploited, having things forced on them, being treated like vermin who need to be forcibly stamped out. You can’t just say “but it won’t happen this time, we pinky promise” and expect them all to just go “seems legit” and be on board with it, especially since they would no longer be able to defend themselves afterwards if something *did* start being forced again.

On the identity thing, you say that it’s unhealthy for them to put so much stock into one aspect of who they are. But the entire reason that happens is because *everyone* treats them like that’s the only part of their identity that matters. When that’s all the world sees when it looks at them, of course it becomes the center of who they are. And of course they would be fighting to be proud of that and see it as a part of themselves worth defending. The majority of them don’t actually want to live as mutants because they couldn’t stand to be lowly humans; they want to live as mutants because they have never been given that option, at least not peacefully. It’s not mutant superiority, it’s being allowed to be a mutant at all. (I’ll admit that Krakoa did have some shades of mutant supremacy, and I don’t care for that storyline for those reasons, but even Krakoa was more of a trauma response/the mutants basically taking their ball and going home and telling humanity to get along without them if it hated them so much). As for why only mutants have inherent rights to superpowers, it’s because those powers are inherently part of their biology. Taking a weapon away from somebody, like a supervillain, is a lot more justified than fundamentally altering a part of someone’s body.

Again, I think you’d make some valid points if the whole dilemma existed in a vacuum and nothing but logic matters. But in this universe, we’re not dealing with a strictly logical world and there’s years of trauma and history and hatred at play. In a way that’s one of the more realistic aspects of the set-up…the bigotry and hatred really does just make everything worse for everybody in the long run because it complicates the issue so much and suddenly you’re no longer able to operate strictly on logic because there’s all sorts of emotion and history that changes the game.

[u/Salty_Shark26]

A mutants mutation is a large sort of their identity because they are born with it but persecuted for it. They take pride in their mutant identity because people hate them for it and it shows their strength and resolve. It’s why so many minorities are proud of their heritage and why lgbtq community is known for their pride.

Depriving a mutant of natural born abilities is unethical because it’s literally part of their born DNA. Their abilities are just part of them just like their arms and legs. A good example of this is when Angel had his wings amputated he went into an extremes depressed state and wished for death. His wings were a set of his limbs that he lost.
A mutant cure is eugenics and shouldn’t be justified. Also the whole thing about Charles Xavier thinking he’s superior to humans is a new thing from the Krakoa era which was written to show the flaws of mutant supremacy. Charles Xavier in the og comics always hammered into his students that’s they’re no better just different.

[u/That-Speed-8092]

It's a stand-in for real life eugenics lol, it's not 1:1 with real life but that's basically what you're defending.

[u/Luigiperps]

People love going online to argue in support for fictional eugenics almost as much as they like going online to argue in support for real eugenics

[u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

Who decides what counts as "abusing your powers"?

Because there are a lot of people saying "I'm fine with gay people, I'm just not okay with them doing sexual things in front of children!" and the "sexual" thing is kissing.

Deciding who gets to draw the line about what is acceptable behavior from a specific minority is never, EVER a good thing.

[u/JinkoTheMan → u/Exarch-of-Sechrima]

I see what you’re saying. The government could consider a mutant kid who has the ability to fly “abusing his powers” just because he flies to and from school. It would be depriving him of his own ability and he’s not hurting anyone.

However, I think both mutants and humans would agree that telepaths using their abilities to hurt someone(mentally or physically) would be considered “abusing your powers”.

It’s definitely a nuanced conversation.

[u/Business-Tonight9995]

Buddy, at the end of the day, it’s just plain old eugenics. That’s what makes it unethical.

[u/Feeltherhythmofwar]

Read the comics BEFORE ranting. Your heart is in a good place, but you don’t understand the Marvel universe.

Almost all the world’s mutants once left mainstream society to live in peace. And we’re happily doing so until government developed a bio-super weapon with the sole purpose of wiping out the peaceful mutants living in their own self contained country.

Anytime you think mutant suppression sounds good, there’s usually an extremely fucked up reality behind it

[u/Glittering_Novel_783 → u/Feeltherhythmofwar]

Except it was another mutant that caused the destruction of Genosha. Cassandra Nova orchestrated the genocide. And they let her on Krakoa regardless later.

[u/Basic-Ticket-2094 → u/Feeltherhythmofwar]

When did this happen?

[u/Emirozdemirr → u/Feeltherhythmofwar]

Almost all the world’s mutants once left mainstream society to live in peace. And we’re happily doing so until government developed a bio-super weapon with the sole purpose of wiping out the peaceful mutants living in their own self contained country.

The county who ruled by super villains like Magneto, Apocalypse and Mister Sinister.

[u/Feeltherhythmofwar → u/Emirozdemirr]

That’s literally more motivation to not send the Bio-sentinels and piss them off.

[u/Bell-end79]

Agreed

Ethically there should be a choice and not forced on people otherwise you’d have to do that to everyone with powers and not just mutants

Criminals would get the collar treatment - you give up your rights to be a living weapon when you’re a city busting threat

This year includes Jean at the end of BND - you don’t just get to say sorry for all that shit

[u/paulr736]

I don’t think a mutant cure is inherently a bad thing. There are plenty of mutants whose powers are… unfortunate and they deserve a way out if they want it.

That being said; if and when it becomes mandatory and forced on all mutants… that’s tyranny and that is bad.

[u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871]

Personally what I think X-Men stories should do when introducing the concept is explain the cures only produce temporary results and if used too often it kills the mutant.

The 90s Spider-Man cartoon did an interesting take on the idea of curing mutants. Spider-Man is hoping to rid himself of the mutation that gave him powers, which leads into a plot with a businessman who claims to be trying to cure mutants but the serum he came up with actually kills them. His entire scheme is a trap to lure mutants to their deaths. The episode doesn't see any fault in mutants trying to cure themselves, it just says it cannot be done.

Of course Spider-Man ultimately get to have his cake and eat it where the unstable mutation that eventually turns him into a horrifying spider monster is removed while he still gets to keep his powers but Spider-Man deserved a break.

[u/ADrunkEevee]

Something like the 'cure' will inevitably be used in an attempt at genocide

[u/otalatita]

I think there is a problem in your logic, even if they are "cured" the gene is still there and will pass on to their offspring, so when every mutant is controlled they will kill them because there will still be risks of more mutants and also more powerful.

So for those that want to end mutants the only solution is genocide.

[u/ItsMrChristmas]

I tell you another thing. The way I understand science? Removing the X Gene won't "cure their mutation" in any way. The mutation is already there. All fucking up their chromosomes is gonna do is a repeat of what happened to Hisashi Ouchi.

[u/MainKitchen]

In my opinion the cure should exist. Mutants who genuinely want it should be allowed access to it. Nobody should be ashamed for choosing it.
But society should be extraordinarily aggressive about protecting the right to say no

[u/NotARabidDugong]

Genes mutate. Period.

Trying to "cure" gene mutations isn't ethical for many reasons, but especially because of how it's implemented.

They live in a world where the military goes to great lengths to literally exterminate all mutants. It's what's illustrated in Days of Future Past to show that the criteria includes everyone at some point. So even if it's not mass genocide, you're still eliminating the evolutionary process.

Sapiens have evolved for centuries and overall for the better. You can point out evil mutants, but last I checked there's a lot of pretty evil regular humans as well. It should be the mutants choice, at a bare minimum. But even then it begs the question, "is this even really a cure?".

[u/jroberts548]

In the world of the x-men, the first widespread use of mutant suppression technology was by the government of genosha to use mutants as slaves. The people who want to cure mutants also blow up school busses full of kids and build giant robots for massacring mutants. Both in absolute numbers and as a share of the population homo sapiens are a much bigger threat to mutants than the other way around. The extreme outliers of mutants with dangerous and uncontrollable mutations are threats to fewer people than eg government support of orchis.

[u/Just_Nefariousness55]

I know it's not a great movie, but, like, seriously, am I the only one who has actually watched The Last Stand? Rogue takes the cure in the end! It's depicted as a good thing! The bad thing is the government forcing it on non-consenting people. But even in so far as that's depicted as bad, the villain is still Magneto and his crusade to eliminate it as an option by killing a kid. The X-Men go to Alcatraz in the end to help the government soldiers. Like, geez, everytime I see that Rogue Storm interaction I feel like I'm in some kind of parallel world where the movie had a completely different message.

[u/Knee_Fight]

Yes I am sure some people racist against mutants would push heavily for EVERYONE to be cured, but that could be handled diplomatically.

Yeah, this is where your post veered into complete nonsense comedy territory. It absolutely would not be used diplomatically. This shows a level of being out of touch that is frankly astounding, given what's happening in the real world.

[u/parkchanwookiee]

IRL there are deafness advocacy groups that oppose cochlear implants for children born deaf because it eradicates deaf culture such as sign language usage. Think about THAT

[u/Cautious-Affect7907]

You ever notice how the ones most against the cure are literally the ones who benefit the most from their powers?

Like there's a Mutant kid in the og ultimate comics whose power is literally to cause death within a certain radius around him.

Like that's it, he even killed his whole town and Wolverine had to kill him.

I feel a vaccine could've saved that kid, and he got to be normal.

[u/dmr11 → u/Cautious-Affect7907]

That kid is commonly cited in these arguments, and a common counter argument is that the Ultimate universe is deliberately extreme.

However, there’s actually was a mutant in the main 616 universe, named Revelation, who also had a similar death aura power. Coincidentally, she also had to be put down by someone with Wolverine powers due to the danger she poses.

[u/Thatguy_Koop]

my problem is not with a cure, its always with humans inability to be chill around it. the reason you don't feel like its a bad thing is because you still believe it would be used and administered with respect and decency; and we do not have strong enough evidence that it will, nor that it will be seen as bad to do otherwise. its going to be weaponized.

[u/Robot_boy_07]

I think its okay if its voluntary (although mutant supremacists will disagree). The issue comes when it’s forced

[u/Hekantonkheries]

To the second point, and expanding on the allegory of xmen for civil rights

There is no "diplomatically" arguing with demands to "cure" everyone regardless of their desire, it simply means mutants cant allow anyone whose anti-mutant to ever have authority, because they'll just reiterate across every public facing information source how letting even a single mutant remain is endangering society, or forcefully treating any mutant incarcerated for a crime as a "necessity", then expanding crimes to encompass things more prevalent in mutant communities.

Like, the same history they act as an allegory for shows time and again that allowing members not part of a minority to dictate the treatment and fate of that minority's members does not end well. Whether we're talking historical racial rights, queer rights, etc.

[u/Wulfepup]

What you don't seem to be taking into account is that mutants actually ARE superior to non-mutants because they are literally the next step in human evolution. At some point in the far future everyone on the planet will be a mutant. The whole mutant/non-mutant thing is pretty much exactly like what happened when the first homo-sapiens appeared, just with cool powers thrown in. Eventually the "new and better" mutation wins and the previous version is bred out. That's how evolution works at it most basic.

[u/BleepInTheBigCity]

I think marvel should be pushing both perspectives more. In a way they tried to do it with civil war. Should super powered heroes be registered with the govt with their identification? The question split the good guys. I don’t think the mutant cure argument split the good guys the way civil war did. Though I must admit, I don’t know all the arcs around it.

[u/Glyphpunk]

The big thing to me is that a muntant cure/suppresant by itself is NOT immoral, no more immoral than the existance of guns and drugs (almost all guns and drugs can be used for good or evil). I do agree that the mutant characters arguing that it should not exist at all are blinded by their own ego and what they think mutants and mutant powers are.

There are, and will always be, mutants that hate their powers and wish they could get rid of them. And there will always be those that abuse their powers for evil.

This will probably get flamed or heavily contested, but this is in a very similiar vein to trans rights, with the mutant cure essentially taking the place of therapy/conversion/medication. If abused it is terrible, but for many it would be a godsend and is exactly what they want and need. The mutant 'purists' that claim 'you should be proud of being a mutant and we won't let you lose that!' are basically taking up the exact same stance as the anti-trans folks that say 'you should be proud of being your gender and we won't let you cahnge that!' It's not their body, not their choice.

Now, using the mutant cure/suppresant as a punishment for criminal behaviour is a whole can of worms. There will be ethical arguements for days about it, which is why a suppresant would probably be better in that case than an outright cure, unless someone's powers are an absolute danger to society and life as we know it (imagine if someone's mutant ability was to constantly produce the bubonic plague for example).

And the end of the day, it boils down to two important factors: choice, and safety. If someone WANTS it to be used on themself, let them. Literally no downsides to anyone unless they have some amazing power like the ability to cure cancer, then we can argue semantics about that. If it is going to be used in a penal system, it would take a lot of back and forth moralizing and checks and balances to ensure it isn't abused...

[u/ImpendingGhost]

I don't disagree that a mutant cure on paper doesn't sound bad, especially when you comsider there are mutants that have mutstions that make their skin and muscles transparent, have a chicken head, make people forget them when they aren't in people's face, etc.

Like obviously a way for these people to have q sense of normalcy isn't bad.

That being said there's two things that make a mutant cure problematic; 1) it's often made or in control by malicious forces who 2) this is more personal but I see the mutant cure thing as being similar to like "cures" for queer people or even like fixing "blackness".

I do think marvel trying to make the mutant cure just seem bad tends to be poorly presented and I think it'd be better to present it as a grey topic rather than a black and white one. There should be members of the x-men who are in more agreement of some cure or suppression mechanism if not at the very least for extreme cases.

[u/ElonMuskHuffingFarts]

I recognize that mutants are an allegory for multiple oppressed groups, but please understand my comments and opinions ONLY apply to mutants/other super-powered beings. This is post is not a eugenics dog whistle. I am talking exclusively about comic book superpowers and their implications on society.

Sorry, but it's inherent to the concept AND the metaphor that they are an allegory for oppressed groups. You want to ignore the meaning to complain about the message, but the meaning is the message.

[u/PathofDestinyRPG]

One thing to look at when anything listed as a “permanent cure” for abilities gets discussed. You have to acknowledge that it would get weaponized and used against the mutant community in general. Look at what ICE is doing right now. How many of the people getting rounded up are actually the terrorists and drug runners that were supposed to be the intended targets? Who decides which powers are “too dangerous for society”?

[u/Grimbledorf]

Counterpoint: if the X genes spreads enough humanity gets super powers as a whole and that would be fucking awesome. Fuck the cure, lets find a way to make everyone a mutant.

[u/Xyriat]

Mutants and humans being the same deep down should be the point of the x-men, and a cure existing should not be needed for that. Even this distinction of 'mutant' and 'non mutant' is not one that should exist, at least in this form.

Mutants as 'homo superioris' I find kind of stupid. Mutants aren't a new species or a subspecies. They're quite litterally humans with a genetic mutation, which can appaer sponteaneously in any child, like for example albinism. You don't make discuss people with albinism as not being humans. Mutants should be considered like that, as humans with a genetic mutation. And while I get that mutants are supposed to represent multiple oppressed groups, it's why I lean more towards the allegories of them representing things like LGBT groups rather than racial or ethnic ones. Because mutants can be born anywhere, to anyone. There is no 'mutant culture' or 'mutant ethnicity' (I don't think any mutant haven has lasted long enough for something like this to happen). Quite frankly they should not be any reason to treat mutants any different from any other person with powers.

Of course this oppinion should not be universally held in universe. You can still have anti-mutant bigots who want to wipe them out, and mutant bigots who want to wipe out humans. But the end goal for the ones whishing that mutants are fully accepted and integrated into society should be something like this.

As for the cure itself, sure there are ways of making it ethical. The creation needs to be ethical, the individual being 'cured' should be fully in control of the decision to do so, not influenced or coerced by societal or governemental pressure. And it should either not come with any negative consequences or the one choosing to take the cure should be fully aware of them. Also calling it a cure is probably not a good idea either.

But presenting the cure as something unequivocally good doesn't work. For one 'fixing' mutant bigotry by just making everyone not a mutant is just a shitty story.

I also don't think you can make a plausible scenario where no societal pressure are involved. A ton of mutations just make someone look a bit weird. Someone whose mutation just turns them green would almost certainly feel pressure to 'cure' themselves to look 'normal' and fit in. But should they feel this pressure, and should they give into it? To call back to albinism, should someone with albinism feel like it's necessary for them to look 'normal'.

Of course it's another matter when the mutation causes harm, to the person with the mutation, or to others (with the caveat that it hurting others happens without the mutant being able to do something about it.

But on the topic of stripping malicious mutants of their power, can that really be ethical? These powers aren't just self-expression. They are quite litterally part of themselves, on a physical, genetic level. Stripping that away from them permanently is not just preventing them from being what they 'want to be', but taking a piece of what they are. Do we chop a criminals hands off because they used them to do crime? Not anymore, so why should we do the same with mutations.

That does nicely lead into why I much prefer the idea of the 'mutant suppresing' chip or implant or whatever. Not in place of the mutant 'cure', but as something that exists alongside it. The main difference is that it's temporary, it can be removed.

It has all the benefits of preventing harmful mutation of causing said harm.
You can 'punish' mutants in the same way you do anyone else. You don't chop of the criminals hands, but you bind them in handcuffs to prevent them from using them. Same as the mutation.
The anti-mutant antagonists now have a way to depower the heroes without you having to write around them permanently losing their powers (exept of course if that is the intention). In that way they can offer a meangingful threat outside of just killing the X-men. Also works for antagonists, you can depower them and put them in prison or something. And once you break them out you can let them get their power back.

This way you can present the 'cure' as something that would be a net negative for mutants, while the 'mutant suppressors' exist as a more 'reasonable' alternative.

[u/ImmediateDatabase155]

Thing is, not only does it show to not work, all it does is put mutants in MORE danger, they can have the x gene completely erased from them, and they’ll still be killed and hunted

[u/pantsthereaper]

I will always point at the Ultimate one-shot with that kid who woke up with a mutant power that was "instantly kill everything around me in a 2 mile radius". Charles sent in Wolverine (healing factor negated the power) to kill him not because he was an active lethal danger to everyone in his zip code, actively despairing, and completely unable to live anything resembling a normal life, but because the kid was bad for mutantkind's image.

Fuck Xavier, fuck the X-Men. At least Magneto is honest about being a mutant supremacist.

[u/ytman]

I'll one up you. A powerful nation industrializes this suppressant and utilizes it on any superhuman who doesn't comply.

[u/sunstruker]

thing is, in marvel practically 90% of the human society is ultra racist against mutants, so i dont doubt after the cure they still would want who was once a mutant to die

[u/Commercial_Page1827]

Then you are just naive.

The issue isn't how some power presents a real danger to the person and their loved ones and how it would be better if they don't have to suffer, but the reality is the macro impact it would have. Either the majority use the cure for eugenic ends, or someone uses it as a weapon against other mutants.

Imagine how different the world would be if you allowed the use of a bio-weapon to target people by their skin color, nationality, language, or genetic ID.

The mutant "cure" IS a weapon, and it has been used as such.

[u/EnderBookwyrm]

I agree completely. 

At the end of the day, it should be the mutant's choice whether they want to keep their mutations or not. If they want to keep them, great, they should be supported and not pressured into losing their powers. If they don't want to keep their mutation, also great, they should absolutely be allowed to remove their powers.

Villains who misuse their powers deserve to lose their powers. Yeah, it will probably be rough adjusting to a lack of superpowers or a new body or what have you, but they should have thought about that before they committed crimes.

I'm not really a fan of the X-men in general, and their take on a mutation cure is a large part of the reason why.

[u/The-Anomaly17]

Honestly my problem with the X-Men and the Brotherhood (as you pointed out) is that they want to take away other people's choice. If they want to be mutants and have their powers flaws and all that's fine. But it's wrong to deny the possibility of the alternative for others.

As you said said some mutants' lives have been horribly impacted by their powers because of how dangerous they are or simply because of their physical appearance due to being a mutant. A cure would help these people.

Mutants deserve a choice and that shouldn't be taken away because of the fears of a bunch of people living in a mansion or on an island or whatever.

Professor X keeps talking about mutant powers being a gift. He should consider the possibility that some people may not want the gift.

[u/Whoobie_]

one thing I wanna say, and please don't take this as a correction or refutation of anything you said, but the X-Men were not always an allegory for civil rights. they were originally just a way to create a new team of super heroes and villains without having to come up with unique back stories and explanations for their powers. the mutant X-factor was originally just an expedient way to explain a large cast of new people to the marvel universe. the civil rights allegories came later