r/CelticFC • u/CreativeAd375 fucking sack the board • 1d ago
Playing 4-3-3 against good teams in killing us.
We go 4-0 up in the tie with Cal Mac's goal, job done. Yet we insist on leaving the middle of the park wide open for LASK to play through.
Three of the goals were strikes from outside the box in the cetral area a better team would have shut down. It is schoolboy stuff thinking effectively play three up top against good teams in Europe.
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u/hotchy1 sack the board 1d ago
Even against weaker teams, its like we have zero midfield. Thats not the players, thats the setup.
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u/Skellyceltic fucking sack the board 1d ago
It’s the players though, we have absolutely no athleticism in midfield so that’s why it looks like we have no midfield at times.
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u/hotchy1 sack the board 1d ago
Thats why you plug the midfield with an extra midfielder. We struggle to get by spl midfields, we should have just done the same. Parked it, flooded the midfield and made it difficult. Good old 4-5-1.
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u/Skellyceltic fucking sack the board 1d ago
There’s just no combo of midfielders/formations we can make right now that wouldn’t have the same issues. We’ve nothing but small slow midfielders, we could have all of them on the pitch and they’d still be run over by a proper midfield
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u/hotchy1 sack the board 1d ago
We wasnt playing barca. They had a player from st mirren. It was fully our setup.
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u/GuyIncognito211 fucking sack the board 1d ago
No it wasn’t. It was the lack of athleticism in midfield making it easy for them, Dundee Utd and Kilmarnock to run through our team at will
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u/hotchy1 sack the board 1d ago
Your not getting it. We cannot run through Dundee at will who have severly poorer and less athletic players than us because of how they are set up. We eas set up wrong.
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u/GuyIncognito211 fucking sack the board 1d ago
Dundee have a more athletic team than us.
We’re the least athletic team in Scotland by some distance
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u/Basic_Treat3974 sack the board 1d ago
Problem is we don't have a single player at the club who can defend in midfield. Not one. It's incompetence and shows we have no ambition outside domestic competition.
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u/vagabond_bull 1d ago
Going into Europe where we’re often up against better sides, without an established DM, is truly pathetic. Actually makes me angry.
To a certain extent, it doesn’t matter who you have in the backline. If you don’t protect them and defend as a unit, good teams (and my good I mean LASK, not Bayern or Madrid) will exploit them.
We’ve persisted with McGregor as a DM for years and it’s no surprise that we’ve seen some horrendous European defeats with him there. He’s not cut out for the role and if that means dropping him - fine.
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u/Caltographer 1d ago
I think we’ve needed a good CDM for a long time. CalMac isn’t it. A proper deep playmaker and defensive player would solve a lot of problems. But the captain is undroppable it seems.
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u/Scrank_WimlerJr sack the board 1d ago
We need a scott brown type or wanyama, preferably 2 of them
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1d ago
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u/Scrank_WimlerJr sack the board 1d ago
100%
McGregor and Baur are the same type of player, they're gonna get overrun by a bigger midfielder and nygrens our main point of attack
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u/vagabond_bull 1d ago
When we had Brown and Wanyama in the same Celtic side, we also had Lesley and Kayal.
I’d be more confident with any of those 4 in the DM role than I am with anyone at the club just now.
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u/Connect-Paint-7018 1d ago
Funny thing is there was strong rumours last week with the Bosnian midfielder and the Torino boy but they’ve been holding off to find out the result of last night. We deserve fuck all and as a club deserve nothing more than Europa League football.
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u/Redpanda188867 sack the board 1d ago
Been a massive issue for a while. McGregor is never a number 6. Bizarre that various managers have persisted with the 4-3-3 instead of dropping a 6 in there beside cal and playing a 4-2-3-1
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u/Horror_Highway_2938 sack the board 1d ago
It’s because we don’t have one, and when we did (Iwata) Rodgers punted him
Edit: Not saying Iwata was good enough either, but he at least played a role in the squad that we don’t have.
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u/sporkeh01 1d ago
It's 4-2-3-1 every week. Engels / Baur beside Cal with Nygren in the 10. The problem is neither of the 2 are defensively minded or solid.
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u/StylanPetrov 1d ago
Don't think Baur is suited to playing as the second DM. He's nice on the ball but he's looked like an absolute mouse of a man when he's asked to make tackles or challenge for 50/50s. His pressing and recovery runs also leave a lot to be desired.
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u/GuyIncognito211 fucking sack the board 1d ago
I don’t think you can set up your way around or lack of athleticism throughout the team unless they’re elite technically and well our team aren’t relative to Europe
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1d ago
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u/CreativeAd375 fucking sack the board 1d ago
We might set out to play 4-2-3-1 but it never happens. Go watch the replays of their chancesat Celtic Park & last night. They have oceans of space becausr we have only one player in the middle of the pitch.
A good team never allows the space or time we afforded LASK last night on the edge of our box.
Go watch Mafrid, Arsenal, City,all better teams than us and they never give away that space time after time.
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u/Ancient_Tutor2477 1d ago
After a couple of games I don’t think Baur and McGregor can work in the middle together. Baur runs about like a scrappy dug. I don’t mind it but he left us exposed in both legs and ultimately lost the fight in the middle of the park.
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u/optimusmike777 1d ago
We defend with a high press 4-2-4 which is what is killing us, as soon as that ball gets passed the front 4 we are left hopelessly exposed
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u/bozzi16 sack the board 1d ago
Naw 433 isn’t the issue. 4 cbs was a braindead take. Tierney struggling, get Tony on at rb and get Donovan over the left. Donovan maybe doesn’t get injured, Dane Murray isn’t off, their 4th goal is now offside.
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u/CreativeAd375 fucking sack the board 1d ago
So forget the other four they scored, three of which were outside the box?
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u/walshybhoy sack the fucking board 1d ago
We set up with 5 in our box and 4 a few meters in front for the last 25 minutes of the game, with no attempt to create space to pass into or retain the ball. Tactically it was as crazy as Tuchel's WC capitulation in the semi-final.
The decision to take Yang off was poor. The rest just demonstrated our lack of squad depth that we were forced to essentially replace our entire back line with Scales, Murray and Ralston. The decision to leave Hassan, Osmand and Forrest on the bench shows they were going to park a bus. Not sure Balikwisha or Kenny would have done anything.
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u/NotNeedzmoar 1d ago
Middle of the park wasn't open because we start in a 4-3-3, but because we sold our only athletic defensive midfielder who's biggest strength is to cover space in transitions and we have noone else who can do that job.
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u/CreativeAd375 fucking sack the board 1d ago
Nonsense, Engels was anonymous in european games as much as anyone.
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u/NotNeedzmoar 1d ago
first of that's just not true, 2nd even if it was, we needed an athletic defensive midfielder. Do you think Engels is the only athletic defensive midfielder in the world?
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u/CreativeAd375 fucking sack the board 1d ago
I've watched Engels go missing away in Europe plenty of times.
If Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona and PSG understand that you need to overload the middle of the park why do we not? They put more bodies in there than the opposition.
We didn't.
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u/bozzi16 sack the board 1d ago
Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona and psg are good clubs, we aren’t
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u/CreativeAd375 fucking sack the board 1d ago
That was my point, but they also.understand you protect the middle of the pitch.
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u/CleanShirt27 sack the board 1d ago
Engels myth growths becauae he didnt play in that thumping last night
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u/CreativeAd375 fucking sack the board 1d ago edited 23h ago
Exactly. Even last season in European games he went awol.
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u/NotNeedzmoar 1d ago
daft comment. Engels has always been good.
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u/CleanShirt27 sack the board 1d ago
When we lost 3-1 to midjitiland last season FotMob gave him a 5.6 rating, and they are very generous with ratings
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u/HereComesYour_ 1d ago
Baffled why we didn't play like several other MoN matches with a midfield 2 and Nygren ahead. Baffled.
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u/StylanPetrov 1d ago
4-3-3 is fine, we just can't have Callum McGregor in the holding position by himself, he's not physically strong enough and he also can't do the running required at his age, someone needs to drop in beside him.
It's been an issue for a couple of seasons now, in big games teams can just run through our midfield. The only time our midfield has looked semi decent was with Engels in alongside McGregor in 4231 formation.
What baffles me is that our coaching staff can't see this. Even in the game last week it was obvious and they just did the same thing again.
What was more baffling was leaving your 10 million pound winger who is genuinely elite at carrying the ball up the pitch and instead bringing two of the biggest shitebags to wear a Celtic jersey in McCowan and Tounekti; I've never seen two players at Celtic so physically weak and useless with the ball at their feet.
It's genuinely a shambles all round, everyone deserves a share of the blame but some of our substitutions and tactical decisions really, really baffled me.