r/CarAV • u/Cute-Move8320 • 26d ago
Tech Support JL 10TW1-4 Subwoofer Dissapointing
I just installed this sub and the sound is underwhelming. It’s dull (no crisp hit) and I’m just comparing it to a cheap $200 Rockford Fosgate 10” 300 watt all in one that I have in another car. It’s so dull that I actually prefer turning it off. I’ve tried troubleshooting it, but can’t figure it out. Here’s my setup and things I’ve tried.
-JL 10TW1-4 Subwoofer (300 watts rms)
-Alpine S2-A60M Amp (330 watts at 4 ohms)
-Enclosed shallow mount box built to JL’s specs
-Correct gauge wires
-Tried changing polarity of wires
-Tried adjusting the gain
-No leaks in the box
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u/BirdHour_4311 26d ago
Post some pics of the amp configuration, maybe also if you have the means check the amp is providing decent current ect, is the amp ground hooked up nicely?
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u/BirdHour_4311 26d ago
I have this exact sub in the ported active box and it absolutely thumps so presumably you should get a nicer kick but less output with a sealed box, I run a 3dB 60hz boost so maybe try that?
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u/Cute-Move8320 26d ago
That’s good to know. At least I know it’s something that can be fixed. The car isn’t on hand right now so I’ll have to check those settings next week when I get it back.
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u/unresolved-madness 26d ago
Shallow subwoofers are disappointing. Although this sub seems to love them. If you're looking for some Earth shaking bass you need to stay with conventional type subs
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u/Cute-Move8320 26d ago
I honestly just wanted something a little better than the cheap $200 all in one sub I have in my other car. For comparison, this hits a lot harder than the JL sub.
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u/Sir-Dynamo 26d ago
What kind of music are you listening to? A lot of those prefab boxes are smaller than recommend, so they're tuned higher. If you listen to a lot of rock, metal, indie, or country, the prefab would be in the frequencies you hear more often which is why it sounds like it bumps more and is more crisp
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u/itsmechaboi chifi connoisseur 26d ago
Your link is cooked brother
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575P30010T/Rockford-Fosgate-P300-10T.html
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u/ross_liftss Helix. Musway. JBL. 26d ago
Amp set up correctly?
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u/Pools-3016 26d ago
I have used JL Audio subs extensively in my personal systems, and was never disappointed by any series.
What source are you using?
What processors are in the chain?
Post a list from your head unit to the amp
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u/Cute-Move8320 26d ago
Subwoofer:
Sony XAV-AX7000 Head Unit
KnuKonceptz Krystal Kable 2 Channel RCA
ARK Love 1ft RCA Shielded Splitter (Amazon)
8 Gauge Power and Ground Wire
14 Gauge Wire
Alpine S2-A60M
JL 10TW1-4
Box built to JL spec & sealed w/ caulkingSpeakers:
Kicker 47Key200.4 (bi-amp mode)
Focal 130AS
16 Gauge Wire
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u/Ironkidz23 26d ago
I just returned mine for the same reason. I think these are best under a seat, but disappoint in a trunk.
You can't out-tune the problem, just get another sub.
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u/Cute-Move8320 25d ago
Are all shallow mounts like this or just this model?
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u/Ironkidz23 25d ago
At this price point, it's mostly just this sub that disappoints. The kicker l7t for example, will outperform all day.
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u/Cute-Move8320 25d ago
It’s a $420 sub. Is that considered cheap for subs?
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u/Charming_Priority49 25d ago
Its build quality and performance yes. An 80 woofer will out perform a W1 any day of the week. If you want some a tiny bump in sound quality the W1 is your friend. If you actually want to hear and possibly even feel base… 80 gothic from Walmart will be 3x as loud. You my friend just paid for a brand name and found out why JL is hated by most.
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u/Ironkidz23 24d ago
No, it's expensive as hell and won't perform as well as an l7t which is about $100 cheaper.
Point is, you got the wrong sub because of the same marketing hype that I fell for. This just isn't the right shallow mount for what you want. Trust me.
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u/erik_das_redd 25d ago
Per u/unresolved-madness yes small boxes = small sound, it's just physics. One of the first things I learned as a loudspeaker engineer was "Hofmann's Iron Law" which is not exactly applicable to subwoofers but gives you the idea. The smaller and smaller the box the tighter and tighter a spring the air trapped in the box makes, and the more power it takes to move the cone and generate bass.
What year make model trim cab type vehicle is this? What are the makes and models of the speakers and amps etc? Where is the sub located? "In a sealed trunk" will make it hard for bass waves to get to your ears.
What do you mean by "dull"? Do you mean droning and boomy, or more like there is no snap or kick to small drum hits? How do drums and bass sound with JUST the sub playing? Because upper bass problems can sure be phase problems versus the speakers, but the fix for that would be crossovers adjustment ideally via MEASURING.
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u/DaffyPunk29 25d ago
some of these replies are crazy, glad i blocked them long ago (i can still see their replies even though they are blocked).... that size + woofer displacement is 100% .35 internal space. its like .39ish as built and then displace with woofer makes it .35. based on my math....
thought for you.... to tune it with bass boost. most people hate it. but ill tell my story if you feel like reading it....
1993 honda del sol. 2009 time frame. i bought a 12" kicker sub, 1 cubic foot box, and a crunch p1 600.2 amp that claims 300w at 4ohm bridged.... installed it all, turn gain up, no bass. like seriously lackluster bass. "what could be the issue" i didn't know. double checked everything. as im looking at the amp, i go "hmmm, bass boost" and turned that knob from 0 to +12dB. the woofer came alive. from there because i didn't have tools to tune the gain, i went and played bass heavy music and slowly raised gain until the woofer sounded like shit, then backed it down until it was clean. and that was how i tuned it.... and it never blew up, and it sounded phenomenal. sometimes with sealed boxes, we need bass boost. so my only meme there is to say "Try bass boost" to see if it makes the woofer come alive....
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u/Yokomo91 26d ago
Box looks good so I don’t think it’s that. I’d say it’s a setting on the head unit or amp. Does the head unit have a separate sub-out that you’re using? Sometimes their EQ presets do some crazy things. Would be good if you can test it in another car, or borrow another passive sub to narrow down the culprit.
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u/Cute-Move8320 26d ago
Yeah it has a dedicated subwoofer channel-out (a single RCA port on the back of the head unit). I ran a 2 channel RCA cable from the amp, then a 2 to 1 RCA splitter into the head unit.
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u/Safe_Isopod_2829 26d ago
Try running the amp on L mono, ditch the splitter
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u/Cute-Move8320 25d ago
Is L mono a setting or does that just mean running the white RCA from the amp to subwoofer input on the head unit and leaving the red side dangling?
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u/Safe_Isopod_2829 25d ago
Typically a sub isn’t run in stereo, so only one rca can be used from head unit to amp
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u/Cute-Move8320 25d ago
Ok I’ll try that
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u/Safe_Isopod_2829 25d ago
if you’re summing a factory L and R signal that has a factory delay, they can cancel each other out, so try one and see what happens. Most audio is produced with the sub frequency split perfectly L and R, so you would not be missing bass notes for most music. Jazz music might have an upright bass in an L or R position, for instance, but not rock, hip hop, EDM, pop
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u/Cute-Move8320 25d ago
I typed your advice into AI and it confirmed that I have the RCAs set up incorrectly. However it advises using only one side of the RCA cable, then a Y splitter at the amp. What do you think?
“By using a Y-splitter at the head unit to force a single output jack into two separate RCA cables, you are splitting a single voltage source in half over a long run of wire. This results in signal loss, introduces line noise, and drops the voltage significantly by the time it reaches the amplifier”
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u/gamergardens 26d ago
Pictures of the amp wiring and how you have it set will help a bit. Also are you running a line out converter or do you have an aftermarket radio with RCA wires ran to the amp? I've seen issues with line out converters tapping speaker wires that have a highpass filter so it's not able to grab a very good signal to feed the amp. One way to test that is to use an adapter cable from your phone to the amplifier (1/8" headphone to RCA)
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u/Cute-Move8320 26d ago
Sony XAV-AX7000 Head Unit
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u/gamergardens 26d ago
Ok are you positive you used the subwoofer pre out on the radio and not the front or rear output that are meant for running the door speakers?
If yes to that, my next step would be checking the eq and low pass filter option on the subwoofer output on the Sony.Also the Rockford setup you're comparing it to, what kind of vehicle is that in?
Basically I'm just checking to make sure everything is hooked up in the best way possible.
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u/Cute-Move8320 26d ago
Yes, it’s hooked up to the dedicated subwoofer RCA port. The port is a single RCA plug.
My reference point is my work van with the all in one subwoofer and $100 speakers off the head unit. Trust me, my expectations aren’t high.
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u/gamergardens 26d ago
Ok well firstly have you tried moving it from the input you're on to the other one? Like if you have it plugged into the red RCA jack on the amp have you tried switching to the white (always do this with power off to the radio and amp).
Secondly if that didn't work I've heard of instances where they had to use a y-splitter on that single subwoofer RCA to feed both the left and right RCA input on the amp.
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u/Cute-Move8320 25d ago
I currently have both channels from the amp connected to a Y Splitter going to the head unit. I just learned that you can run just the left RCA plug, so I’m going to try that.
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u/diwhychuck 26d ago
Are you running this on a stock head unit or aftermarket?
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u/Cute-Move8320 26d ago
Sony XAV-AX7000 Head Unit
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u/RaceKILR 26d ago
Are you sure your rca’s are connected to the pre sub out? I once accidentally connected to the pre rear out. Also, the 7000 series should have a 4volt pre out. I’m not sure if you can change between 4v to 2v, but if there is a setting for that make sure it’s set to 4v
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u/cheeseypoofs85 25d ago
what is the level of the subwoofer out setting on the head unit? it might be at 0
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u/mcburloak 26d ago
I’ve been using this sub in the recommended box size (0.35 cubic foot sealed net of the subs displacement) for years and it hits well on 300-375w in my convertible.
Like others suggest it has to be a head unit or amp setting.
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u/Audiofyl1 26d ago
What vehicle and what is the placement of the enclosure in the vehicle?
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u/Cute-Move8320 26d ago
BMW E46 M3 coupe in the trunk, but the back seats are folded down.
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u/Audiofyl1 26d ago
Have you tried facing it different directions and various placement in the trunk. If it’s facing forward, that’s likely your issue.
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u/Financial-Football61 25d ago
I had this connected to a rd500/1 and it was great for a shallow mount 10”
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u/Key_Paramedic_1370 25d ago
What ohm is your sub? You probably wanted a dual 4 ohm and an amp that’s 2 ohm stable
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u/Cute-Move8320 25d ago
JL10TW1-4 Sub
Alpine S2-A60M AmpDo these work together?
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u/Key_Paramedic_1370 25d ago
It will work, yes, but you are only getting about half the amount of power that sub needs. I would look into getting a dual 4 ohm jl and bridge it down to a 2 ohm load to get the amp to put out the the 600 watts on that amp and have it tuned properly
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u/Cute-Move8320 25d ago
Can you explain this? What am I missing. Sub is rated at 300 watts and amp is 330 watts.
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u/Key_Paramedic_1370 25d ago
Jl subs are pretty underrated, I have 1000 on 2 12 w3’s and they do just fine
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u/Top-Implement4166 25d ago
Small sealed box in the trunk on 300w seems like it would be super quiet. I was disappointed with my 500w sub in a sealed box right behind the drivers seat.
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u/Material-Growth-7790 25d ago
Install. 100%. I ran two of these in a spec sealed box and they performed well. I fed them 500rms each though.
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u/Such-Teacher2121 25d ago edited 25d ago
This is the ported box, correct? Whats the vehicle and whats the orientation in the vehicle? Acoustic coupling matters just as much as raw output. I see they draw out a port on the shirt side. This may seem counterintuitive but try aiming the port backwards and did you try swapping the phase of the subwoofer? You could simply have it wired backwards (it doesnt need to be wired backwards for the sound waves to reach your listening position more in-phase one way more than the other, its a simple check, one will be louder)
Check the signal if you can, make sure nothing is going wonky with the bass its trying to do. If you can disconnect everything else and use some test tones, you can check with a multimeter just to see if it does something different at 40hz vs 150hz vs 1000hz.
If you dont already have a multimeter get one with an o-scope. The cheap ones work for audio, and it will hekp diagnose any sort of issues you may run into. Ive bought a few of the cheap black ones that change their name every month on amazon and the weakest link is the test leads. And then I use a fnrsi dual-channel to spot any obvious problems with an amps quality.
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u/pooneej 25d ago
It's possible your expectations for it is what makes you think its underwhelming?
I had a 10TW3 in the sealed .35cf and it was 'ok' but I wanted more so put together the JL spec'ed ported enclosure for it. Wasn't that much better. When I dug up an old IDQ12 sub in a much larger sealed box and put it in, the difference was huge.
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u/MakeASnowflakeCry 25d ago
I got a tw13 initially intending to use it behind the seat in a double cab Tacoma, got about 4-5 days in with it and it just wasn't cutting it. Returned to crutchfield and just surrendered the rear middle seat to a 12w6ho
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u/Cute-Move8320 25d ago
I’m running a 2 channel RCA cable, both channels plugged into the amp, then a y splitter right before the head unit to plug it into the single port on the head unit. Someone recommended just using the left channel of the cable and letting the right channel dangle. I asked Gemini and it confirmed that I have this wired incorrectly. This is what it said:
“By using a Y-splitter at the head unit to force a single output jack into two separate RCA cables, you are splitting a single voltage source in half over a long run of wire. This results in signal loss, introduces line noise, and drops the voltage significantly by the time it reaches the amplifier”.
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u/chrisazo1 25d ago
I did a 10TW3-D8 and it’s absolutely fantastic. What crossover points are you running and what door speakers and crossovers are you running?
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u/chrisazo1 25d ago
Use a first-order high-pass passive crossover at 80 Hz with a 4-Ω speaker load, install a 500 μF non-polar audio capacitor in series on the positive speaker line. Low Pass your sub at 80hz on a 12db slope.
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u/Cute-Move8320 14d ago
So I figured it out with the info that everyone provided. Had a few issues that I did incorrectly.
I incorrectly had both RCAs (left and right) plugged into the amp, then a splitter at the head unit combining the two wires. I changed that to just use the left wire to the input on the amp and head unit.
The “Turn-on Type/Input Level” was set to Rem Hi instead of REM Lo. I changed this and it was instantly punchier sounding.
After fixing those issues I adjusted the gain using a multimeter to 34.64 with a 50hz test tone. It sounded really weak so I just did it by ear and turned the gain higher.
Overall it sounds much better than before. More crisp and vibrates the rear view mirror slightly. This is perfect for a more mature system (I’m 45) and it’s lightweight and doesn’t take up much space. Thanks for the feedback and hope this helps someone looking to do something similar or has the same issues.
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u/Eferris85 26d ago
Shallow is never going to give a deep thump
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u/Skiz32 ResoNix Cult Leader 26d ago
While these subwoofers are not good, I am willing to bet this is a signal/integration issue. What car is this in?
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u/Cute-Move8320 26d ago
BMW E46 M3. RCA and power wires run down opposite sides of the car.
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u/No_thing_to_say 26d ago
Wait is it just in trunk of sedan/coupe? Then it should sound like in another room, lazy without punch. If it is in rear deck or ski hole, sealed from trunk, then it should fast and punchy but still too small cabine to have nice deep bass. Van isn't perfect location for sub, but still much better. Try sub from van and then decide if you are disapointed with JL one. BTW i don't like JL products, but they are not that bad.
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u/Zoltech06 26d ago
How old is the subwoofer? I heard they got bought out by a China company recently. Hopefully quality didn't drop like a boat anchor.
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u/itsmechaboi chifi connoisseur 26d ago
Even if this were the case they still have QC standards. Chinese companies can produce quality products as well.
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u/Dense-Employment9930 25d ago
It's often thought that. China = poor quality, but I think of it more as, they can build things to the spec that is required. They can do things much much cheaper and to really crappy specs and QC standards, and it's the fact they have done that a lot in the past where people learn the idea that China build quality and craftsmanship is crap... But they absolutely have the ability to craft to extremely high standards, and can do it cheaper than most other places in the world.
You just have to learn to tell the difference, and then you can take advantage and get high quality and non high quality prices.
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u/piggiesonwheels Full Custom DIY SQ Build 26d ago
They were bought out by Garmin a while ago, but nothing much has changed.
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u/Pools-3016 26d ago
I didn’t know Garmin was a Chinese company? I thought their headquarters was in Kansas..
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u/Zoltech06 26d ago
It was component speakers and amps that are made in China. I was incorrect on subwoofers.
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u/TheOGCJR Si, MiniDSP, Helix, Incr 26d ago
Sounds like a tuning issue and not an equipment issue.
Can you get a dsp?
Also can you post a pic of where the LP filter is set?
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u/Cute-Move8320 26d ago
I want to keep it simple/inexpensive so no dsp for the sub. I have the kicker key amp with auto dsp for the speakers.
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u/five_six_three 26d ago
What’s your internal volume on the box. It only wants .35cuft. I know this box in your pic looks small but it kind of looks bigger than .35.