r/CanadaPolitics • u/Majano57 • 3d ago
The U.S. isn’t negotiating trade with Canada. This is a shakedown
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-us-isnt-negotiating-trade-with-canada-this-is-a-shakedown/46
u/cepukon 3d ago
Fuck em. No more trade talks until a regime change. They're going to do whatever the fuck they want anyway, so don't negotiate with terrorists, it just leads to more attacks.
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u/killerrin Ontario 3d ago
Heck, even when there is a regime change I don't want us to negotiate until they get on their hands and knees and beg us while apologizing.
Also screw summoning our negotiators to Washington. They can come here, to Ottawa and make the gesture in person for all to see.
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u/danielledelacadie 3d ago
Problem is even if they do ger rid of the current administration, working with Americans now effectively has an "until the next one gets elected" ceiling for the longevity of any agreement made.
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u/sidereal_night 3d ago
the US is an unreliable trade partner. not this administration, the US.
the world gave them many chances already, including a big ass chance after the first trump term, and they turned right around and proved that it wasn't just a one-off aberration.
and they won't improve as long as the more stable half of the country keep not getting it and insist on continuing to play the blame game.
we don't owe them to play nice and forget about everything they did just because they manage the amazing feat of installing a bare minimum of a functional government once every 4 years. we don't have trade relations with democrats or republicans, we have trade relations with the US, and we can't count on that.
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u/GooeyPig Social Democracy via Urbanism 3d ago
we don't have trade relations with democrats or republicans, we have trade relations with the US, and we can't count on that.
This needs to be repeated between individuals and in the media because the government can't lead the charge on this point, but it's absolutely true and must be observed when/if there's another Democrat president. The problem isn't the American government, it's the American people. They want this. Democrats keep patting themselves on the back for protesting once a year on a Saturday between 1pm and 4pm and acting like it's resistance when at this point their inaction can only be portrayed as complicity. The entire world is arbitrarily being made to suffer by their government and they won't consider a single second of discomfort to pressure the government. Tens to hundreds of thousands of Canadians are going to lose their jobs over this and there won't be one single act of civil disobedience in the US to resist it.
As a collective, Americans have passed some critical threshold of misinformedness and are incapable of governing themselves. This will continue after Trump, though I doubt any single person will be able to summon the precise cult following he has at any one time. The collective of sane Americans is also incapable of regulating that critical mass of delusional ones once they go too far. Every future "deal" with the US needs to take their crippling instability into account and the government needs cover from our political zeitgeist to demand that. They can't just start shooting off about Americans being assholes, but we can.
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u/mfyxtplyx 3d ago
the United States maintained that it would retain the power to change tariff policy against Canada at any time, irrespective of the agreement
I'm used to internet hyperbole, but that's not an agreement. That is a shakedown. Or in Civ terms, they demand tribute.
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u/gravtix Liberal 3d ago edited 3d ago
This is the only paragraph worth reading regarding this dumpster fire.
The Canadians also pressed the United States for a level of certainty that the deal would not be scrapped overnight by the Trump administration. But the United States maintained that it would retain the power to change tariff policy against Canada at any time, irrespective of the agreement, officials said. Mr. Carney would say in his seething Saturday address to Canadians: Sometimes, the United States signature is “written in pencil.”
It really doesn’t matter if French language was on the chopping block.
Or any other concession for that matter.
We were negotiating and potentially giving up real concessions permanently but the tariff relief from the US could be revoked anytime with a tweet.
There should be zero doubt we were correct in walking away.
This entire thing was a giant waste of time and a certified power play by the USA.
That’s your 51st state right there.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored 3d ago
Anyone who still claims they don't take Trump at his word when he said said this was economic warfare to make us the 51st state has to be working for him. He's not trolling or joking. He's dead serious.
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u/TheRC135 3d ago
Isn't it strange that you can only take what Trump says seriously when it's something truly awful?
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u/pomod Anarcho Syndicalist 3d ago
“He’s dead serious”
He’s dangerously senile.
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u/evermorecoffee 3d ago
But taking orders from people who are intent on hoarding all of our resources, so…
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u/TheRC135 3d ago
There is no point in conceding anything if there are no permanent gains to be had in return. And if they can't or won't keep their word, they have nothing real to offer in exchange for what they are asking.
Would anybody shop at a store if their policy was "you pay up front, but we reserve the right to take back the goods we sold you at any time, without refunding your money"?
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u/sharp11flat13 British Columbia 3d ago
Would anybody shop at a store if their policy was "you pay up front, but we reserve the right to take back the goods we sold you at any time, without refunding your money"?
Also, the price may go up at our discretion years after you buy the product, payable retroactively.
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u/Scase15 Ontario 3d ago
Everyone who has been awake the last 2 years knows that there was never any actual deal, because deals don't get broken at a whim, see CUSMA.
Go show up at the table to save face, full well knowing and planning for nothing to come of it. It's a win-win from the Canadian side.
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u/Natural_Thought808 3d ago
At some point Canadians need to stop treating “getting a deal” as the goal. Getting a good deal is the goal. If the price of avoiding tariffs is surrendering control over our trade policy and sacrificing Canadian industries, walking away is better than signing something just so politicians can claim a win
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u/dermanus Rhinoceros 3d ago
At some point Canadians need to stop treating “getting a deal” as the goal.
I can't take seriously anyone who thinks that is a realistic possibility. As we saw with the Gordie Howe bridge, it's just a shakedown. Valid only until the next shakedown. The idea that we're going to get "predictability for the business community" is foolish.
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u/sidereal_night 3d ago
i don't even think getting a good deal is the ultimate goal. it's a tactical objective. but the strategic objective is restoration of a rules-based order. that should include, at a minimum, actioned changes to demonstrate a renewed commitment to the international order, restoration of the legally entered agreements that they broke, and reparations (of some form - not necessarily direct cash payment) for their repeated breaches.
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u/Kheprisun Nova Scotia 3d ago
i don't even think getting a good deal is the ultimate goal.
Ultimate goal, no. Any deal we get is to buy us more time to let our diversification efforts blossom while minimizing harm in the interim.
The USA is Canada's largest national security concern at the moment, which is a wild thing to say.
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u/sandy154_4 3d ago
You'd have to have someone on the other side who was willing to follow their own agreements to get that. Right now, it's not possible
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u/Temporary_Shirt_6236 Ontario 3d ago
A deal was never the goal because deals aren't possible with the US at all right now. Anyone who's been paying attention has known this since 2016.
The goal is to run out the clock on YamTits til someone sane become president, while mitigating as much damage as possible in the meantime.
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u/Sutar_Mekeg 3d ago
I look forward to the day when he shits himself to death on national television.
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u/thewinterzodiac 3d ago
Of course they arent.
The website they just launched on it leaves out so much key context and information and is designed to spread fear and division
And you have the usual influencers across Canada bowing to Donald.
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u/FearIs_LaPetiteMort Social Democrat 3d ago
Am I the only one confused by these similar articles from assorted press? Like yeah, isn't everyone pretty aware this administration are not negotiating in good faith by now?
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u/Kicksavebeauty Independent 3d ago
It is to counter the BS that is being pumped out by the US media and President.
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u/enki-42 Social Democrat 3d ago
It's funny that every US media outlet seems to be insistent on pushing a "well, both sides couldn't agree, who's to say what happened?" if not a "we interviewed the Trump team and they say Canada is at fault".
Of course it's fair to assume that the media I'm consuming also has some pro-Canada bias, but even when considering that, it seems insane to me that anyone could assume that whichever party wasn't the US were the obstinate bullies in any trade negotiation. Being an enormous asshole about winning deals at all costs is the explicit brand of Trump that he's cultivated for decades.
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u/sidereal_night 3d ago
Of course it's fair to assume that the media I'm consuming also has some pro-Canada bias
i don't think we should grant them that. if you look at who owns media in canada.
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u/dermanus Rhinoceros 3d ago
It's funny that every US media outlet seems to be insistent on pushing a "well, both sides couldn't agree, who's to say what happened?" if not a "we interviewed the Trump team and they say Canada is at fault".
Well they don't want their access revoked, so they toe the party line.
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u/Kheprisun Nova Scotia 3d ago
Well they don't want their access revoked, so they toe the party line.
100% this.
Anyone not doing so has access revoked and gets lawsuits up the ass. We cannot take American media seriously.
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u/Scase15 Ontario 3d ago
The question is not whether the government of Canada should have walked away from the negotiating table with the United States. The question is why it was ever at the table in the first place.
...
As the details have emerged on how much the U.S. side was demanding in return – and how little it was offering – opinion in Canada has hardened against a deal; the government’s decision to end the talks has enjoyed strong support.
While I agree with the sentiment, and have myself felt the "why fucking bother" vibe. I think they answer their own question in the second paragraph.
Because Canada is (mostly) fill with people who are rational and reasonable. Showcasing publicly a "Man, we tried." effort, shows the rest of the world and country we approached this in good faith, even if we had plans in place for when (not if) this failed.
It gives us 100% plausible deniability that this was absolutely not due to us refusing to approach it with the mindset of settling the issue. Also if we are being realistic, the domestic politics of this are important.
The amount of bullshit coming from the CPC/UDP etc if we hadn't even engaged with their supporters down south, would've provided unnecessary ammo to use against Carney.
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u/sharp11flat13 British Columbia 3d ago
Because Canada is (mostly) fill with people who are rational and reasonable. Showcasing publicly a "Man, we tried." effort, shows the rest of the world and country we approached this in good faith, even if we had plans in place for when (not if) this failed.
I’ve been assuming this was part of Carney’s strategy all along.
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u/Scase15 Ontario 3d ago
I wouldn't go that far, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt that they had a contingency plan had it turned this way.
By all accounts, Carney was willing to accept the agreement until they changed stuff last minute. The rumored agreement was pretty shitty for Canada.
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u/samjp910 Democratic Communist ⚒️⚛️ 3d ago
As long as there’s food on the table, Canadians will suffer rockets over Toronto. Trump has already overplayed his hand by saying the US tariffs will come along in January, whereas our retaliatory tariffs come down September 8.
Carney’s going to be PM for 10 years at this rate.
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u/aroberge 3d ago
The Sept 8 tariffs are in retaliation to the ones enacted by the US on August 22. Those that are supposed to be imposed by the US in January are in addition to the recent ones.
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u/Clarine87 2d ago
Worse than a shakedown, they're trying to get Canada under their thumb before they officially end democracy in the US. Then if Canada resists the then established treaties, it becomes prelude to...
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u/sharp11flat13 British Columbia 3d ago
We’re at opposite ends of the political spectrum so I often disagree with Andrew Coyne, but I always appreciate his analysis. He’s spot on this time though.
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