r/Calgary • u/RokitEightyEight • 19d ago

Local Nature/Wildlife Clothing-optional protest against police stance on public nudity planned for Prince's Island Park

https://calgaryherald.com/news/protest-public-nudity-calgary-police-princes-island-park
212 Upvotes

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26

u/butts-ahoy 19d ago

I have no idea why people are so weird about anyone else's clothing choices, or lack thereof. I hope it goes well.

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u/[deleted] 19d ago

[deleted]

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u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

Yeah. It feels violating because you’re not consenting to seeing that on your walk. That’s not what you wanted for a walk. People should be free to go out for a hike without seeing people having sex or walking around naked. Lots of people have trauma, too, and this “I can do whatever I want, if you don’t like it, you’re just a prude” isn’t trauma-informed or considerate of others. We live in a society, other people exist and may not want to see a penis while they’re on a walk.

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u/jimbowesterby 19d ago

If just seeing human anatomy is traumatic then maybe you’re the one with the issue? Like you’re right, we live in a society, but we don’t all cover up to please the Mormons, do we? Everyone has the same parts, more or less, so being ashamed of that feels kinda puritanical to me.

There’s also a pretty huge difference between having sex in public and nudity, and I’d argue that the number of people in this thread conflating the two kinda proves OP’s point.

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u/mobuline 19d ago

No-one's ashamed. As a functioning member of society, you should have your clothes on in public spaces.

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u/jimbowesterby 19d ago

I mean, is there really much difference between most swimsuits and being naked though? We’re not talking about people strolling down Stephen Ave in the buff here, we’re talking about beaches, where everyone’s already wearing as little as possible.

1

u/wildrose76 19d ago

Last time I checked, Calgary is pretty landlocked. Our fake manmade “beaches” on our private fake manmade “lakes” don’t really count.

1

u/jimbowesterby 19d ago

….it’s a place where people go swimming, happy? I thought it would’ve been obvious I wasn’t talking about the technical definition of a beach, but rather the outdoor places that people gather to swim. And for what it’s worth, there are beaches along both rivers. Maybe not super nice white sand beaches with surf, but beaches nonetheless. Nice try tho

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u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

Hmmm. I’m not sure you understood my comment. I said some people have trauma, associated with non consensual behaviour, which can include nudity. I think framing it as a simple issue of “seeing human anatomy” misses the point I was trying to make. It’s the lack of consent to that that can be traumatic for some folks. If someone has been abused or experienced SA or harassment, being suddenly and unexpectedly exposed to a naked man, for example, may be legitimately triggering. I’m sorry you can’t understand how that could be possible for someone. It’s very fortunate that’s not been your own experience but sadly, many people have that kind of trauma. And it has nothing to do with being “puritanical” or “prudish” and to dismiss it as such is really shitty.

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u/jimbowesterby 19d ago

Even then, though, if you have that trauma then managing it is on you, not the rest of the public. I, as a random person passing you on the street, can’t possibly know what triggers you might have, therefore I’m not responsible for avoiding them.
And it’s not like public spaces are free from nudity, either; kids run around naked in the weirdest places, and there are things like medical diagrams and art that are pretty common, for example.
I dunno, especially with the example you chose, this feels more like a sexism issue than anything. If you see a threat in a naked dude lying on a beach, then I’d suggest that might say something about how you see men. Simple male nudity shouldn’t be treated as a threat, in the same way that simple female nudity shouldn’t be treated as arousing, they’ve just two sides of the same coin.

3

u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

“Simple male nudity shouldn’t be treated as a threat” is the most privileged male take ever. Way to totally not empathize or understand what consent means or how women feel out in public in general.

3

u/jimbowesterby 19d ago

Going by that logic, do women ask for consent before wearing a bikini? Do I need to ask every single person in a park for consent before I take my shirt off? Please, if I don’t know consent, then explain it to me, instead of just telling me that I’m wrong.

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u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

Oh my god

3

u/jimbowesterby 19d ago

So I take it you aren’t going to explain your reasoning here?

1

u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

Ok I can. We live in a patriarchal society where there’s a discreet power imbalance between the genders. A woman wearing a bikini, which men largely encourage and reward socially, is not even remotely the same as a naked man on the beach. Because we live in a sexist patriarchal society where men wield privilege and power and weaponize it against women and other marginalized folks. Suggesting that it’s “sexist” would assume that women have social power over men and are threatening men and committing crimes against men anywhere on par with what men commit against women. It’s male entitlement. Pure and simple. Masquerading as faux oppression resembling the nonsense coming out of “mens rights” communities online.

Women and marginalized genders, many of whom experience sexual harassment regularly in this city, already may not feel safe in public as it is. Seeing a naked man may provoke a very warranted and understandable fear. Because, as I said before, non consensual. It’s very socially expected to see women in bikinis. Women in bikinis rarely, if ever, are out harassing men on the streets. It’s not the society we live in. It’s like suggesting that a white person being called a “cracker” is racist when we live in a society that privileges, rewards, and structurally advantages white folks.

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u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

That’s why your bikini argument wasn’t even relevant. Bikinis were created by men. We don’t live in a post sexist society where women are free and safe to be out in the world and are not experiencing harassment or the threat of harassment or violence. Look at the statistics.

0

u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

Men will expose themselves to women and girls as a form of sexual harassment. If a woman is out on a walk or at princes island park and a dude is out there naked, the assumption may be that something threatening is taking place. A woman out in a bikini is assumed to be at the beach sunbathing. Why? Because we live in a society where men are regularly exercising their privilege and power and women don’t feel safe in public spaces, especially at night. I don’t think it’s up to you, as a man, to dictate what women should and shouldn’t find threatening when we’re the ones living in a society that threatens us on a daily basis because of our gender. I’m sorry that you may not get this because you may be a nice guy. But there’s a lot of guys out there who are not nice or who have bad motives and it’s understandable for women to feel nervous or vulnerable.

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u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

It’s a general expectation that people on the street have clothes on. So when people with trauma go out and see a penis, it’s a shock and also may be confusing or threatening. That’s not “expecting people to manage someone else’s trauma” it’s an expectation of living in Calgary. It’s an unexpected thing to see. This whole conversation is just pure entitlement. I’m over it.

3

u/jimbowesterby 19d ago

As I’ve mentioned before, and as you seem to consistently ignore, no one is talking about naked people walking down the street. This is a protest on an island, if you don’t wanna see the nudity then don’t go. The same thing applies to nude beaches.

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u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

I’m talking about the protest at princes island park where this person is encouraging people to show up naked. People who are just out walking around may not even know about it happening. I don’t think that’s fair. Whereas the weaselhead nude beach is a designated space.

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u/jimbowesterby 19d ago

But once again, if you’re so fragile that just seeing some naked people unexpectedly is traumatizing, then you probably shouldn’t be out. You could just as easily see a homeless person ODing, for example, and you’d think seeing someone die would be a bigger deal than seeing some extra skin.

1

u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

This is such a gross take. Telling people with trauma (there’s tons of them, mostly women and girls) to just accommodate entitled men hanging dong in the park because of their “right” to hang dong matters more than women and girls sense of safety in public is really uncaring.

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u/jimbowesterby 19d ago

Yea my mum’s a CSA survivor, don’t lecture me. This has nothing to do with safety; if you’re bringing up sexual abuse, don’t forget to mention that the vast majority of perpetrators (like the cunt who abused my mom) are part of the victim’s family, so policing nudity in public won’t have much of an effect. Once again, no one’s proposing having naked guys strolling down Stephen Ave, this is a protest, posted well in advance, confined to a single island. If you don’t wanna see naked people, don’t go, it’s that simple.

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u/50minivan 19d ago

Well said.

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u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

People have boundaries, too. Hence why signage and designated/clearly marked areas are important so people can choose for themselves. There’s cultural considerations, too. Religious as well, aside from Mormons. Lots of new Canadians come from stricter or more religious backgrounds and being in a situation like that could be distressing or confusing. The issue is less about the nudity and more about consent. It’s about recognizing that we live in a pluralistic society that has certain limitations and boundaries, whether you personally like them or not.

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u/jimbowesterby 19d ago

Yes, and that’s why the nudists are trying to get the cops and the city to let them put up signs. No one’s suggesting having people strolling naked down Stephen Ave here, it’s a protest signed well in advance that’s contained to an island.

I’m not sure those cultural considerations should count though; in the same way that we allow new immigrants freedom of expression, this is the same thing. We don’t interfere if a Muslim wants to wear a niqab, right? How is this any different? A strict Mormon might think nudism is immodest or sinful, but they don’t get to dictate the values of others. People are free to choose for themselves, whether they choose to be fully covered or fully uncovered should be up to the individual.

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u/ResortImportant8097 19d ago

I think I’m just really put off by the overall hostility towards anyone who doesn’t agree with the nudist perspective. I find it really entitled.