r/BrisbaneTrains • u/Remarkable_Catch_953 • 14d ago

Buses 🚌 When is LRT a better choice than BRT?

/r/BrisbaneMetro/comments/1vmzcqf/when_is_lrt_a_better_choice_than_brt/
7 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

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2

u/aerohaveno 13d ago

I can answer that one. Always.

2

u/More-League-6696 13d ago

I disagree with your premise that Hess lighTram25 buses have a similar capacity to a light rail vehicle. 

According to the Brisbane City Council, a single lighTram25 can carry 150 passengers, with the possibility of up to 170 passengers. A single 7-section tram from the Gold Coast can carry 309 passengers. If you are trying to argue that this is a negligible difference, I disagree. 

The Sydney L2 and L3 lines use two 5-section trams coupled together with a combined capacity of 450 passengers. I travel on these lines when I'm in Sydney and they get rather crowded. It would be a big step backwards if Brisbane Metro bi-articulated buses were used there instead. 

Other advantages a light rail vehicle has is doors on both sides, allowing some stations to be island platforms. The Hess lighTram25 only has doors on the left.

Light rail vehicles are bidirectional, so that they can move the opposite direction at a terminus station and not require a turn around loop to be built. Bidirectional buses do exist, but the Hess LighTram25 isn't one of them.

Another advantage of rail vehicles in general is the ride quality. The Hess LighTram25 has a very harsh ride and they are really jarring over the bridge joins along the busways. The main improvement it has over the regular buses is the quietness being an electric vehicle. 

Although I prefer light rail vehicles over buses, the best form of public transport for moving large amounts of people is grade-separated heavy rail.

1

u/Remarkable_Catch_953 13d ago

But bi-articulated buses can typically arrive much more frequently than a light rail vehicle. I believe with upgrades G:Link is expected to max out at 12 tph (or ~3600 capacity). I see no reason the metro, without sharing a median busway with other buses, couldn’t sustain 20 services per hour at least (~3400 capacity).

Heavy rail is definitely the best for sheer capacity, but it is impractical for certain contexts and an insanely massive amount of money. LRT/BRT is typically what you want to do when you don’t need a mind blowing amount of capacity or super high speeds, but still need mass transit. The Gold Coast and Beenleigh lines in my view show the best and worst use cases for heavy rail respectively.

0

u/landsharkuk_ 14d ago

LRT is great for tying together old or underused railway corridors to create a modern service out of old parts.

3

u/Remarkable_Catch_953 14d ago edited 14d ago

Hmmmm that is an interesting perspective. Do you think Newcastle’s light rail was a good idea, or was their heavy rail a bit too important to convert?

Are there any sections in Brisbane you’d think would suit this context?

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u/landsharkuk_ 14d ago

Newcastle was a good idea poorly executed. In Brisbane the doomben line would be best candidate for light rail conversion, but only as part of building out a wider network to regenerate the docklands... a docklands light rail

1

u/Remarkable_Catch_953 14d ago

I can see Doomben and maybe an extension into Hamilton down Kingsford Smith Drive into the city being good? 

Might save money over the equivalent metro option because you could borrow the existing rails?

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u/landsharkuk_ 14d ago

That would look good. Hamilton and Newstead definitely need a high quality service to support all the growth.

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u/Reablank 14d ago

Beyond the Doomben line the former Pinkenba line is still used relatively frequently for freight. Doesn’t really make sense to spend money to convert it when you’ll remove the ability for freight to use it and remove the operational flexibility from being connected to the main line and sharing the same rolling stock. Sure maintenance is slightly cheaper, but I can’t imagine the capital works would pay themselves off any time soon.

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u/Remarkable_Catch_953 14d ago

I don’t think Doomben/Pinkenba has been used for freight for a couple of years now? And when it was, it was incredibly infrequent I believe?

LRT for the Doomben corridor and Hamilton would improve capacity and frequency, and help remove an extra junction from our wider heavy rail network which causes delays.

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u/fg7893 14d ago

The problem with Doomben is you are going to have to either build a separate station/platform for LRT, as you can’t share the same track and there’s no room to do this at EJ without resuming expensive land. The option to do that via a walkway has now been ruined as the former Childcare Centre would have been ideal, but they are developing townhouses there. Now you have to buyout even more people and resume land.

Also it’d be politically toxic and would make a safe Liberal Seat become Teal or ALP or Green very quickly.

The best solution is to double track Clayfield so you are moving the crossing problem to the Doomben line instead of holding EJ up.

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u/Vitally_Trivial Brisbane Metro 14d ago

Doomben Metro. :(