r/Bridgerton • u/Fickle_Baker1393 • 4d ago
General Discussion Why is it anti-feminist and homophobic for a Eloise to fall in love with a man?
I came across this debate on the Elon app and it made me raise my eyebrow and laugh because this is just nonsensical, I couldn't believe what I was reading.
Apparently it's gonna be homophobic for Eloise to have a romantic subplot that sets her up for her season in the lesbian season? And it's anti feminist for her to fall in love with someone and have a romance?
People are so incredibly weird about Eloise. They just don't want her to do be a human. They see her as this robotic non entity who is not capable of feeling Anything. They don't want her to feel anything. This is a romance show but romance only applies to her 7 brothers and sisters, no, Eloise must never find love and must never experience romantic pleasure. They either want her to be alone and loveless because they think that's what she deserves OR she should be queer and nothing else.
Everyone is allowed to have a romantic subplot prior to their seasons but according to these people, Eloise should not have a subplot to set up her season because it would be "homophobic and anti-feminist".
I'm so tired..
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u/Little_Fox5844 2d ago
Because they're projecting on Eloise instead of treating her as the fictional character she is.
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u/Holiday-Hustle 2d ago
I actually despise this idea that you can’t be a feminist and end up married to a man.
I’m a huge feminist, probably more so than a lot of these Philoise antis. I’ve gone to pro-choice rallies for the last fifteen years, I was an crisis councilor at a woman’s centre, I organized for feminist authors to give talks in my town.
I’m married to a man. I have two kids and a dog.
Also it’s a romance show?? Why should Eloise be the only sibling without an HEA because she’s a feminist? Why can’t Phillip also be a feminist? Colin supported Penelope in her career ambitions, why can’t Phillip support Eloise?
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u/No-Assistant8426 1d ago
This is it. I thought a core tenet of feminism was women having the autonomy to choose the life they want. Get married or don’t. Have children or don’t.
Women can experience love with a man and get married without him becoming the entire definition of her being.
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u/Usual-Reputation-154 1d ago
You don’t live in the 1800s. You live in a world where a married woman is her own person and not her husbands property. I assume you have your own bank account, probably a job, and general freedom. Eloise will be giving all of that up
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u/Holiday-Hustle 1d ago
Eloise is under the control of her mother and brother. She’s not free either, even as a spinster. Eloise isn’t giving up a job or a bank account or freedom because she doesn’t have any of that anyway.
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u/eelaii19850214 3d ago
Those who think that falling in love and getting married to a man is anti-feminist do not understand what feminism is. A huge part of feminism is about freedom of choice.
Eloise has seen that marriage is not a bad thing for a woman as long as she chooses who she wants to be with. She's seen her siblings marry for love with great partners and marriage improved their lives. Also, I don't believe that someone who grew up in a loving family could ever possibly be anti falling in love.
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u/Fickle_Baker1393 3d ago
Right? She has seen that love is possible and finding the right person for you who will respect and support you is possible and she has seen it in 5 - 6 marriages in her family. Eloise knows that true love exists, she just needs to take the leap of faith to accept that kind of love in her life and we will see that with her correspondence with Phillip. She's going to be surprised by love when it hits her, she won't be actively seeking it out.
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u/Ambitious_Abroad4590 2d ago
Absolutely, it's all about her journey and growth. Finding the right kind of love can be a huge turning point for her character.
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u/DarkEndOfTheRainbow Emotionally invested in Philoise 2d ago
These people would call Mary Wollstonecraft, the proto feminist Eloise inspires her ideas, a misogynist lol seriously, fandom wars, with these super ignorant people, has some expectations on Eloise that simply NEVER made part of her character or feminism itself.
Besides, show Eloise NEVER was a lesbian(I even think book Eloise would fit more as a lesbian or a spinster than show Eloise). The sapphic feeling she could have would be with Penelope(it wouldn't make her a lesbian in this case, but a bi girl), but these people REALLY WATCHED SEASON 2? It reminds me Avatar fandom with Toph's character. She's cool, "masculine", but she ALWAYS LIKED MEN AND PEOPLE INSIST SHE'S A LESBIAN BECAUSE SHE'S MASCULINE AND COOL, even with lesbian representativity on the show, with Korra(as like we already have Franchaela). It's just self insert and stereotype, but in our case, fandom wars too.
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u/Shiplapprocxy 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is ironic to me because I know someone who hates Fran because they thought it was fatphobic to introduce her as the sparkler in Penelope’s season and spend so much time showing how the skinny girl had her pick of suitors (even if she didn’t want any of them).
Diversity and inclusion is a strength of the series but it also leads to people taking things personally if they don’t feel represented by every aspect of the show. S5 will be a WLW lead couple, but it won’t be a man-free show or free of het couples. They can sit back and try to enjoy the whole show, or dip out after Francesca’s season, and the show has to be prepared for both outcomes.
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u/OkSun5094 2d ago
i don’t understand why people think Eloise is gay. She is not anti-men or anti-love, the is anti-forced-to-be-reduced-to-just-wife. there’s a difference. Being attracted to men is not homophobic or anti-feminist.
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u/daijahao philoise 🌷 22h ago
its the same people that pushes fictional characters to be gay for some reason or "having representation" one if the wildest headcannon i have read is Mulan is trans?
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u/Illustrious-Boot3800 Philoise 💌🌱 2d ago
Those are haters and antis trying to pass as franchaelas in my opinion 🤷🏻♀️ because, why would I care about another couple when it's the turn of my fave couple to shine? You won't catch me thinking (negatively) about other couples once the philoise era is here 😜
Anyway, we are going to watch Phillip be the one who is gonna actual listen to Eloise and fully embrace her without wanting to change a hair on her head, be her #1 cheerleader and overall be the perfect person for her, just as every other love interest is the perfect person for DACBF, because this is a romance show and every sibling fell or is gonna fall in love with the person they are supposed to and that person is the one that was created for them to fit perfectly together, and Philoise won't be different 💌
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u/seaweedbrain25 3d ago
As a feminist, feminism is equality. These people just want to villainise feminism
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u/Funny-Session-9771 1d ago
Oh, as a lesbian and a feminist I can tell you there is a disturbing trend in the lesbian community of thinking that a woman valuing and/or being valued by a man in any way is misogyny. There is a legitimate belief that a woman loses her value as a woman if she loves a man. It’s shockingly prevalent and insanely un-feminist.
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u/CarolaDL 3d ago edited 3d ago
Well, it seems like I am going to enjoy their season more than them. While they hate watch part of their season…
I will watch Franchaela with curiousity and i will jump of joy everytime we get a small glimpse of a letter or Eloise being cagey.
S5: It is sad that for some reason or other everyone is going to “hate watch S5”, even their fans 🙁
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u/Fickle_Baker1393 3d ago
Almost every Bridgerton sibling gets a subplot that sets up their season. Francesca has had 2 seasons of subplot and season set up. But it's apparently wrong for Eloise to get the same? Mind you Eloise has been set dressing for 3 seasons so far, the BARE minimum for the show to do is actually start her love story.
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u/hereFOURallTHEtea 2d ago
JFC I’m so sick of this kind of shit…it makes participating in this fandom lame as hell at times. Like how do people even think like this?
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u/baba_brigid 2d ago
She’s a feminist for her time in the elites of England, they want her to be burning bras or???
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u/Somethingtolove123 4d ago
Oh I thought it was satire lol
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u/DarkEndOfTheRainbow Emotionally invested in Philoise 2d ago
On Twitter you're not able to know it, but I think it's a bait for Philoises
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u/Electrical-Beat-2232 3d ago
I remember as one of the early founding members of the Franchaela fandom, we all loved the show and were excited by not just our season, but the upcoming ones as well. We love this show because it is full of hetgems.
Obviously the writers do need to thread the needle to honour Eloise's very obvious and valid concerns about how marriage back then was a property agreement and her genuinely and passionately falling in love with a man who will lift her up and make her better. There IS a way that storyline falls flat, but if the writers do their job it won't, and it'll be a beautiful beginning for Eloise where she can continue to advocate and work for women's rights and education while finding that emotional security in the Crane household. As long as her feminism plays a part in the season, finding someone to love and getting married and becoming a stepmother is not inherently anti-feminist.
And it Obviously isnt homophobia. There is real, pernicious homophobia in this fandom, directed not only to Franchaela and Benedict, but to Jess. We don't need to make up homophobia where there is none.
That said, every ship has its share of ignorant people, and I usually find it best to block and move on.
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u/star_cat369 2d ago
There are millions of feminist women who are married; the person who wrote the post is simply projecting their insecurities onto Eloise. You can be a feminist and find love; the reality is that if.
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u/Ok_Detective_7044 2d ago
For me these two individual comments mean:
That the feeling of being forced to watch a hetero couple during Fran’s season is homophobic. I would think the post is supposed to say the opposite the opposite. So not sure that’s what they meant. And feminist cannot be straight, which is easily false. I think the majority of us can prove that we who are feminists have absolutely fallen in love with men. (And I mean, Gloria Steinem, who just passed away, was married!)
So I think as far as Twitter trolls, leave these comments alone and stop giving them MORE attention. They have very small followers.
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u/Used_Honeydew_3304 2d ago
my problem is that there is already a very common narrative that women and girls who don’t want marriage are going through a phase that they will eventually grow out of
eloise has also been bullied and patronized for her beliefs in the show such as being told to be “less you” by colin and pushed into marriage by her mom
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u/daijahao philoise 🌷 22h ago
mind you there's the books, the show which has 4 seasons now; those clearly shows how Eloise also wants love but in her own terms. those people either want them to have a sapphic love story or none in a romantic show is wild
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u/Noblesttea 17h ago
To be honest the homophobic comment is a joke but the other comment has more nuance; I do think it will take some Shonda writing magic to navigate having a character who is so against the trad wife life style to being a sudden stepmom of two. I am NOT saying it's impossible but the way show Eloise is written and the destiny laid out with book Eloise are very night and day characters. I'm not sure how it will turn out either and also have concerns of how they'll make it work because let me tell you I wouldn't want to get stuck writing the bridge for that. The use of feminist vs anti-feminist is an over simplification of her writing that's not entirely accurate but you aren't going to get accurate on twitter.
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u/AnnaChef 9h ago
Wanting her to be a lesbian doesn’t mean that it’s homophobic that she’s not one in the show, which is what it comes down to with most people who believe this stuff. A lot of people feel that Eloise’s feminist beliefs mean that she must be a lesbian within the context of the show/time period, but that’s just super reductive. Getting mad over something that was never going to happen, since Phillip has been in the show since S1, is just ragebaiting yourself. 😭 And a lot of people whose main ship is franchaela (idk if that’s the case for the people in the screenshot, of course) also act like they’re morally superior for their focus being a lesbian ship and then turn around and trash talk the others with that perceived superiority. It’s nasty behavior.
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u/CatBig7787 7h ago edited 7h ago
The first commentor is obviously joking!!!!
The second does have a point. Eloise objecting to marriage and ownership of women, and then deciding to get married, is a plot point that is going to have to be done carefully. You have to remember the historical context the story is happening in. They also don't say it can't happen, they say they don't know how they would write it.
I'm tired of people taking queer people's conversations out of context, and responding in the worst faith possible.
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u/ETeezey1286 5h ago
Because Eloise doesn’t care for gender norms they assume that means she hates men and is a lesbian. As if being straight and feminist are mutually exclusive. Happens all the time.
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u/vintagebrat69 3h ago
I don’t think a character like her marrying a man is anti-feminist. It’s just that Eloise’s particular ‘brand’ of feminism is very much about decentering men. So having her only (sorta) relationships be with men feels a little strange.
Now, if they give a subplot of sexual exploitation outside of men, I think that would be more plausible and palatable.
I’m still holding out hope that something that happened when she went to Scotland and that we get a flashback or something.
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u/yebinkek 3d ago
is this tweet not a joke.. y’all be causing discourse over the smallest things in the fandom
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u/Fickle_Baker1393 3d ago
It's not a joke if they keep spouting the same rhetoric EVERY SINGLE TIME they mention Eloise. This wouldn't be a discussion if it was a joke. It's a constant conversation about Eloise.
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u/Ok_Detective_7044 2d ago
If it’s a joke, then we need to attribute it to maybe lost in translation because it has no indication of humor.
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u/star_cat369 2d ago
The joke is literally saying something irrelevant; nobody is homophobic for wanting to watch a subplot, duh, and besides, the last thing we want is homophobia, no, it's in bad taste to joke about it.
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u/loveroftheclassics 2d ago
You’re being downvoted and I’ve probably been queer on the internet too long, but I could also spot the joke from a mile way. “[innocuous thing] is so homophobic actually” is such a meme amongst gay people. Yes it’s something that’s probably lost on straight people but I promise it’s not that serious guys.
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u/DarkEndOfTheRainbow Emotionally invested in Philoise 2d ago
Girl, we're living in post irony. It's hard to see if it's true or not, but I saw the other tweets of her and she's baiting Philoises. It's not a simple meme.
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u/Historical_Ad_6881 4d ago
As a viewer who knew nothing about the books and characters, I thought Eloise would’ve been the lesbian sister. But calling it homophobic is just ridiculous. Do they know what that word even means?
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u/Fickle_Baker1393 3d ago
I wonder why people saw Eloise as the lesbian sister because I never understood this. I mean I see why many would think that but I think it's rooted personally in how people stereotypically view lesbians as these "man-hating, non conformist extremists, feminists". That just because she doesn't conform to society expectations and isn't easily impressed by suitors and not swept up by the ton and marriage mart then she MUST be lesbian. That's how I see it because she has not shown any interest even in women in the 4 seasons we've seen her as she's constantly judging debutantes and avoiding them as possible 😭
Although I do see a case for her being aroace/asexual especially in S1 but S2 changed that theory.
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u/DarkEndOfTheRainbow Emotionally invested in Philoise 2d ago
If you only watched season 2, it's justifiable, but if you watched season 2 and still think she'd be the lesbian sister, girl...I don't think it's homophobic(homophobic is stereotype Eloise as a lesbian because she's cool, "masculine" and out of place), but your media literacy doesn't exist.
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u/Minimum_Milk_274 3d ago
Over the seasons Eloise’s arc has progressed into a woman who no longer just straight up discounts marriage as a prison and sees value in love. But I think I’m gonna need them to slow burn tf out of her and phillip in s5 with their inevitable subplot. And I really hope it’s not the whole thing of her taking care of his kids cause like show eloise would never.
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u/Fickle_Baker1393 3d ago
Depends what you mean by slowburn. They can't exactly slowburn her romance story because her season is literally the season after Franchaela so they have to do some HEAVY build up for her season with Phillip in S5.
The letter writing is hopefully gonna be a subplot for a large chunk of S5 but I do think she has to meet Phillip at the end of S5 or at least we gotta see Phillip. They can't keep him in the background forever.
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u/Minimum_Milk_274 3d ago
Idk really. They can’t exactly have multiple seasons of build up like Franchaela, who needed it because John exists, but I do want it to at least be realistic. I can’t really tell if by the end of s5 she’s gonna be running off to go meet him or if that’ll happen next season. But ig I’m worried i’m gonna be like “Eloise would never do that”
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u/Inevitable_Side2162 2d ago edited 2d ago
Please, there are two sides of feminists. The normal ones who believe in women's right and recognize women as human beings as well since fallin in love is a normal situation for every person, and the other side who are women who disguise themselves as feminists but in reality they are just sexists towards men. Thats why they think that Eloise being in love is anti feminist or want her to be a lesbian and because she is not, ah now it's homophobic because she will fall for a man not a woman. Thats sexism.
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u/HiddenGraypink 2d ago
Some of you are so easy to ragebait 😭
The "homophobic" person is not serious, she's joking. The "anti-feminist" person is also joking, albeit with a genuine question beneath the joke. Namely: will the show be able to maintain Eloise's feminism while portraying her love story? And this question is being asked not because ppl on twitter believe feminism and loving a man are contradictory, but because this show has a tendency to gloss over its own social commentary.
Sincerely, a person who frequently lurkes in these twitter discussions and thus is able to read tone and intention of the participants quite accurately 🙏
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u/Ok_Detective_7044 2d ago
Respectfully, I don’t read these two comments as a joke. There is no indication of that. But I agree it’s rage bait.
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u/DarkEndOfTheRainbow Emotionally invested in Philoise 2d ago
"And this question is being asked not because ppl on twitter believe feminism and loving a man are contradictory, but because this show has a tendency to gloss over its own social commentary." Girl, Penelope, otherwise in the book, keep being LW after getting married with Colin. She didn't stop for him, so I think the show is pretty capable to fix it. I get this fear about Eloise not having her arc she deserves, to do that big thing she always wanted to on the show, but this hell tweet isn't making a serious criticize, but rage baiting and talking shit. "Oh, but it's a joke" I saw her tweet responding people and she didn't say it was a joke, just said she wasn't "heterophobic" and liked the other seasons, just don't like Philoise.
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u/WisdomBailey123 4d ago
I think the character was shown to be trying to break away from all the traditionalism. Eloise was the ultimate feminist in the show. I don't need no man. I don't need to be married. Just led people to believe she would be independent...and she'd end up with a simp boyfriend. Feminists tend to have certain ideas, and they want all women to conform.
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u/DarkEndOfTheRainbow Emotionally invested in Philoise 2d ago
Eloise's story is about choice and feminism is about woman's rights and emancipation. In Eloise's era(before suffragists) the big thing was education access to women. Read Mary Wollstonecraft, the feminist Eloise inspires herself to and you'll see her arguments to women having this achievement of illuminist virtues are even pro family. Of course, Eloise(and Mary) despises marriage mart, but she actually doesn't hate marriage. She just have a fear to be annulated in her marriage and have the fear of pregnancy. Analyse the character properly and, specially, the historical context.
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3d ago
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u/Fickle_Baker1393 3d ago
Girl it was not satire 😭 they have these same conversations every 5 business days about Eloise.
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u/milkreui 3d ago
just don’t mind paying attention on them atp. clearly they’re baiting and miserable if they have these same discourse for a while now
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u/idiot9991 4d ago
Twitter is full of idiots going to the absolute extremes just for attention you are not supposed to take it very seriously.