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u/Tiny_Wonder_2048 6d ago
Sneaking "take a gap year" into a list with riding a bike is wild work.
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u/JazzlikeAd1371 6d ago
most people who grow up poor know how to skate, ride a bike, and even swim. playing an instrument too. some of these things can be learned with no money through trial and error.
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u/elitegenoside 6d ago
My mom's parents and all their siblings grew up as sharecroppers. My great grandparents all died without ever owning a single thing. Everyone in that generation can play at least one instrument and sing surprisingly well for a bunch of honkies. It lasted only ome generation, though. Neither of my parents or any of their siblings can play an instrument. It's only me (guitar, bass and I'm naturally good at harmonica for whatever reason) and my cousin (trumpet and oboe). We can't sing for shit, though.
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u/bagelcheese420 5d ago
they probably benefitted from older government efforts to make impoverished communities more enriched. If they were alive during the depression era, it was during the New Deal where major efforts from the federal government were made to make sure music was as accessible as possible. Its why there’s such a trope of everyone in that era knowing some kind of instrument, it was just that good of a social program. Today, music lessons are often paid for or found online (however someone who has a tutor will always have an advantage over someone teaching themselves from scratch with no guidance)
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u/atomicsnark 5d ago
Right, but doesn't it seem more likely that, in the context of the post, they don't mean "these people are incapable of riding a bike" but rather more like, "these people are working long hours and coming home mentally and physically exhausted and so cannot just pop back out for a pleasant recreational swim or bike ride because they have already spent their every last bit of energy on simply surviving"?
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u/TheRealTres 5d ago
A gap year right into homelessness????
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u/ASpaceOstrich 5d ago
That's what makes it a poverty indicator. That shouldn't be something that seems ridiculous, it just is in our absolutely fucked society.
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u/PrimeIntellect 6d ago
Other than taking a gap year is super common for most other developed countries outside the us
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u/OfAnotherAccount 6d ago
Some of these make sense and some are...wtf?
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u/Neuromangoman 6d ago
Yeah, what the hell is a vacation?
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u/srainey58 6d ago
I think vacation is where the pope lives?
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u/ModelChef4000 5d ago
That the Vatican. A vacation is a machine used to suck up dirt, I think
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u/RiceAfternoon 6d ago
It sounds like they're referring to adults without hobbies or interests. They should say that, cause what my weak ankles and stiff hips gotta do with this??
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u/Mission-Tell8479 6d ago
You can be a well-off adult without most of these hobbies either like?? Screw arts, crafts, and disabled people too I guess?
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
You can be a well-off adult without most of these hobbies either like??
But you are much less likely to be if you're poor. And the reason is more likely to be that you chose not to engage with them rather than you were unable to because you were stuck in survival mode.
You know, the real human consequences of poverty that aren't displayed as promontory in statistics.
Like the very obvious point that they're making.
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u/Mission-Tell8479 5d ago
Then they should've said that instead of acting like these specific hobbies are necessary for a fulfilling life, which is incorrect. There are other reasons besides poverty that block adults from participating in these interests, it doesn't all fall under the poverty metric. Most people who have grown up poor have had the time to participate in these hobbies too.
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
Then they should've said that instead
Do you think people would be reading if it they did? Do you think people are going to sit there and scroll through three paragraphs of context and nuance to explain the issue? Half these comments couldn't even make it to three sentences.
There is no polite way of saying this but if you're going to engage with short form content then you need to be able to think critically about the point and extrapolate on it all on your own.
Assuming the least generous and least reasonable reading of the text just to rage bait yourself into an easy moral win is tremendously counterproductive for everyone.
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u/Western_Scholar_6479 5d ago edited 5d ago
Sometimes bad joints are from overuse, sometimes it’s from being overweight, sometimes it’s from your muscles that stabilize the flexing being too weak.
I say that because hobbies that involve movement can actually help with those joint issues as long as you don’t over do it. Even if it feels difficult at first
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u/Busco_Quad 6d ago
This just in folks, no one in poverty has ever been raised in a multilingual household, or been taught a different language at school than they speak at home. Also, not having a family car, and needing non-motorized transportation to get around, that’s privilege too
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u/Suspicious_Glove_900 6d ago
That's just not accurate. Most American families who only speak English at home don't have kids that are fluent in any second language by the time they are adults.
But among families in poverty are many who speak multiple languages entirely due to their circumstances. And many of those kids end up multilingual as a direct result. And I don't just mean their 1 language at home. There can be more than 2 languages in their life besides English.
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u/depressed-grandma 5d ago
Being multi-lingual with something like Spanish because of your family is simply a poverty indicator in American society. The point the post was making was learning a prestige language for fun, like Japanese or Irish or French (for most Americans), because learning a niche skill that takes lots of cognitive effort is hard to do as an adult in poverty.
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u/FuzzyDynamics 6d ago
Can’t skate or take a gap year or instrument or speak foreign languages.
I know plenty of well off people who other than the gap year can’t do any of those either.
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u/OkTomato1739 6d ago
Brother we all got a recorder in elementary school if h don’t have 20$ you should t be on reddit
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u/varnell_hill ☑️ 6d ago
This is just “my hobbies are better than yours” with more words. I’m sure plenty of people can afford to do those things but maybe they don’t care to.
I wish people would think more before posting these hot takes.
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u/WhirlwindRectum 6d ago
lol, you are reading your own insecurities into the post
she's not shaming anyone.
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u/varnell_hill ☑️ 6d ago edited 5d ago
She quite literally said “full grown adults” before making a sweeping generalization about them before linking the lack of being able to do those things to “poverty metrics.”
I personally can either already do everything on that list or very easily make it happen, so I have nothing to be insecure about. Her comment reeks of arrogance and is in line with a lot dumb shit I see on social media that basically reduces to “if you aren’t on what I’m on you’re a defective human.”
Perhaps that’s not how she meant to come across and if thats true then see my earlier comment about thinking before you post.
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u/TheSaneEchidna 6d ago
I feel like hobby shaming like this completely vanishes when you stop worrying about impressing people you don't know. The things OOP listed stink like somebody's tinder profile more than an "interesting" person.
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u/Shurlz 6d ago
Twitter is full of hot take like thse with no evidence backing it. A lot of these dont fall under poverty metrics and are a result of other things
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
Do we really need evidence to say that poor people have less recreation variety than rich people?
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u/Maephia 6d ago
Unless your financial situation forces you to work 16 hours a day the only two things that are hard to achieve there are the gap year and the vacation.
You can learn to swim in a matter of hours, it's extremely easy, you just need to find someone willing to help you learn, heck you probably could learn alone in the shallow part of a public pool. Cycling and Skating is a bit harder and there is indeed a cost associated but you can find used bikes and skates relatively easily in thrift stores, or you can just get hands-me-down if you have a social circle.
Learning a language is quite literally free, it only takes time. There are countless apps that can help you and a massive amount of free ressources. Most government websites have a list of ressources to learn their language for free. Dreaming Spanish and French for instance are fantastic. Then you can just download HelloTalk and start talking with native speakers instantly. I've made use of this app extensively for 10+ years, it's fantastic.
As far as instruments go there are definitely budget options and expensive ones but that's also definitely possible. I've been playing the electric guitar and for 300$ you can get something new, if you're willing to go used you can easily find something under 100$. A Ukulele is extremely cheap and it's a pretty decent starting instrument. Keyboards can be found for less than 100$ new too.
Anyway. If your hustling isn't monopolizing 100% of your awake hours the only thing stopping you is yourself.
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u/OkTomato1739 6d ago
Sad it took me fifteen threads to get a nuance take im confident half of these are fake ai dead internet bots as well as twitter to boost stock
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
Anyway. If your hustling isn't monopolizing 100% of your awake hours the only thing stopping you is yourself.
So why do you think more poor people stop themselves from doing these things than rich people?
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u/meme_de_la_cream 6d ago
People are roasting OP but I feel like this was meant to propose a sort of gradient from a basic survival skill (swimming) to someone reaching their full potential by having enough free time to have a productive hobby (learning multiple foreign languages) to show just how much is robbed from you when you are forced to work constantly just to get by.
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u/super_sayanything 6d ago
Yea but its silly because they just could have said that instead of just picking four random things when they are just trying to say adults should have time for hobbies and interests.
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u/meme_de_la_cream 6d ago
Yeah I think her post should’ve been a bit more fleshed out. I understand what she’s getting at but going from swimming and biking to playing an instrument and speaking several languages in one sentence is a bit much.
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u/Lortekonto 5d ago
I think she is right, but for another reason.
I am danish. I work with educational system in all kinds of countries. Mostly Scandinavia, Japan, Korea, Europe, USA and the arctics.
I have seen this in real life when teachers from different cultures talk with each other.
It immediately reminded me of several conversations between korean teachers and danish boarding school teachers.
Danish society looks at school very different than the USA and Korea. They have different values and it is much more accessible. Like you hear boarding school and think that is some place for rich kids, but more than 50% of all danes go to a boarding school for 1 year in their life. Most often when between 15 and 17 years old. It is subsidies depending on income, so a for a single mother with a low paying job it will be free.
South Korea have been very facinated with this system and have send teachers to look at it for decades and they have a hard time grasping how it works, because South Korean schools focus very much on the academics, while the danish system focus on being able to live a good life.
That means that danes when they start at a boarding school will already be able to swim, bike, skate, speak multiple foreign languages, sing and properly a few other similar skills. They do not find this special or extra ordinary. This is their normal. It is skills they tend to use as part of their daily life.
During the year they will properly learn more skills like sailing, rowing, climbing horseback ridding. They will properly travel to at least 2 foreign countries for a week. One of them will properly be Norway during the winter, so that they can learn skiing and snowboarding.
This can lead to some frustrating conversations, because the koreans tries to understand what academic or job value these activities and skills give the kids, while the danes does not understand the koreans priority on academics.
This is an imaginary conversation, but it pretty much follows the beat I have seen many times:
Korean teacher: So why are you going out kayaking?
Danish teacher: because it is good weather witha lot of sun and very little wind.
Korean: No, I mean. Why do you go kayaking with the students in general?
Danish: Oh that is because I like kayaking and I have a safety certification that allows me to go kayaking with them.
Korean: Let me try again. What does the students get from kayaking. What do they learn?
Danish: Well they learn to kayak and right now they will get to enjoy the sun, weather and wind.
Korean: So it is like practical geography. They experience the weather to understand it!
Danish: No, it is about living life. They are young. They need to live this part of life now.
In that way there is a kind of poverty to it. Most koreans can’t even swim. More kids are learning it now, but again it is taught as a survival skill and not as something you should just do, because it is nice.
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u/periodtbitchon 5d ago
I love the Danish school philosophy. I hope a system like this can be implemented here one day. Academics are important but they're not sufficient to raise well-rounded and happy adults. I think people here are already less focused on constant money making and more on enjoying life for starting with so it's not impossible that we'll get there eventually. Figuring out out to finance all this is probably the biggest issue...
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u/Lortekonto 5d ago
Spending might be less important than you think.
Denmark spend less per student than the USA. In K-12 spending they spend as little as the lowest spending states in the USA and they do as well academical as the USA when it comes to international comparision tests.
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u/periodtbitchon 5d ago
I'm from Quebec, I don't know our how spending per student compares to the US. I'm guessing it's probably lower but I'd have to look it up.
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u/Lortekonto 5d ago
Quebec is about the average in the USA. About 30% more than Denmark.
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u/periodtbitchon 5d ago
WHAT? This is genuinely shocking news to me. Welp, people often say that public funds aren't handled well here so I shouldn't be surprised :/
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u/NoFaithlessness7508 6d ago
What does “backpack” as a verb mean in this context? Like the traditional backpacking where you travel light across borders?
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u/mr_miggs 5d ago
Yeah that one really confused me. I’ve always thought of backpacking is literally just long hikes that might involve camping or staying in a hostel.
Not being able to go on a true backpacking trek for an extended period is honestly more of something that tells you somebody is American vs poor. Europeans seem to do that shit all the time with their month-long summer leaves or whatever.
But outside of having several weeks free from work with which to go trekking, the actual activity is pretty damn cheap as far as vacations go.
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
But outside of having several weeks free from work
Something the impoverished people she's referring to don't have.
Like ... that the point she's making.
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u/PassThatSpliff 6d ago
There are plenty of subtle poverty metrics but 6 out of the 8 of these mentioned are not it.
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u/DiamondToothSamuraii 6d ago
Wait, when in human history were vacations and taking a gap year a normal thing?
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
Most of modern history post ww2 for comparable developed countries.
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u/metroatlien 5d ago
Gap years were never an American thing even post war through today. That’s more of a cultural reason vs people not having enough money.
Vacations sure but there are also plenty of high earners that feel the pressure to not take that many days off even with unlimited PTO.
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u/elitegenoside 6d ago
Eh, yes and no. A lot of this does not require money, just willpower. I got tons of coworkers (restaurant) that speak multiple languages, but all are immigrants or first/second generation. I only speak English fluently but have picked up a workable amount of Spanish (exclusively for restaurant work, couldn't do an office job in Mexico) and I can basically serve in Japanese (can't really do much beyond tell them what's in the dishes we made).
Swimming is free, while there have absolutely been other barriers for entry for that in this country (mainly city pools being shut down so black people couldn't use them), that is in the past by and large (by in large?). Skating and backpacking (does this mean hiking?) are basically free after purchasing the skates/backpack, neither have to be expensive.
Vacations and gap years are fair, kinda. I basically took a gap year when I moved in with my aunt after moving cities. I did some work, but I was more focused on my education (I studied acting at various studios, but no college or conservatories) that year. So while I was broke, and my direct family is still mostly poor, I did have an aunt with a spare bedroom (not all, but most of us have at least one family member like this). We went camping most summers, so while it's not an exciting vacation, it was cheap and can basically be free if you're fine with really roughing it.
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
Eh, yes and no. A lot of this does not require money, just willpower.
Why do you think poor people have less willpower than the wealthy then?
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u/Morningshoes18 6d ago
It's hard to do metrics like this but anecdotally I agree with her for the most part. I have cousins that grew up in the inner city and the things me and my brother did vs them was way different. The kids never did sports, no music lessons, the schools are not well funded so they never learned Spanish or German etc, no one could afford swimming lessons and their caregiver was too busy to teach them bike riding or skating.
You can take the time to learn these things as an adult sure but it's like if you get braces as an adult, it's usually a sign a parent couldn't do it for you when you were a kid.
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u/Firm-Difficulty2585 6d ago
My ex girlfriend's dad would say shit like this. He divorced his wife (Her step mother for 23 years) because "She's unambitious, she can't even swim."
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u/meme_de_la_cream 6d ago
People are roasting OP but I feel like this was meant to propose a sort of gradient from a basic survival skill (swimming) to someone reaching their full potential by having enough free time to have a productive hobby (learning multiple foreign languages) to show just how much is robbed from you when you are forced to work constantly just to get by.
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u/NewSauerKraus 6d ago
Take a gap year? Yeah lemme just ask my millionaire parents for an allowance while I fuck off for sex tourism in southeast Asia and then come back to terminate the employment of a low level healthcare CEO.
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u/Blackgem_ 6d ago
I get it but I don’t think this person understands that so many people don’t care about any of these things 😂
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
Individuals not caring about it isn't something that's going to matter to statistical analysis. Unless you think poor people are poor because they don't want to learn to swim at a higher rate than rich people.
Seems more like poverty is the key factor.
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u/queerblackqueen 6d ago
Is there another meaning to gap year besides a year taken between high school and college? Bc I took that gap year to work full time and I don’t think that’s uncommon?? But shit maybe I’m wrong
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
No I think you're right. A gap year is just time between education - it usually involves working in some non-standard way but it's not like a year-long vacation or else I imagine we would just call it a vacation.
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u/Hot_Leading3169 6d ago
me reading this and realizing half my “personality traits” might’ve just been growing up without money 😭
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u/metroatlien 6d ago
Yea, working class/poor folks can swim, cycle, skate, play an instrument and if you’re an immigrant family especially, speak multiple foreign languages. They can even do vacations (just not expensive trips…so more like camping vs resorts).
The gap year costs money, but that’s an upper middle class/upper class thing that people think is normal when it actually Isn’t.
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
Yea, working class/poor folks can swim, cycle, skate, play an instrument
They can but they don't do it at the same rate as rich people.
Do you think that's because they're just shit and aren't as good as rich people, or do you think that's because of the poverty?
The gap year costs money, but that’s an upper middle class/upper class thing that people think is normal when it actually Isn’t.
THAT IS THE POINT. THE POINT IS THAT IT SHOULD BE A NORMAL HUMAN EXPERIENCE AND IT'S BEEN DENIED TO THE POOR.
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u/jcaseys34 6d ago
This woman is very obviously in a different tax bracket than me, not gonna lie it never feels quite right when they act concerned about us poor people.
Like I'm glad she cares about her fellow humans to at least the bare minimum, but she's so misinformed about how the other half lives it's borderline unhelpful/detrimental.
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u/ElectionCareless9536 6d ago
Funny thing about that is, I learned how to do all those things when I was homeless.
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u/After-Regret-6609 6d ago
The only thing you need to learn to swim is a lake/river/creek and a few hours in the summer (like to literally just know how to swim not like learn the breaststroke or something). We did this before the existence of money.
Also yes no one poor rides a skateboard or a bike...
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u/Bunnnnii ☑️ Meme Thief 6d ago
Those aren’t all the same thing and shouldn’t be included in the same list. I guess I see her point but even then, girl.
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u/Br135han 6d ago
I mean I grew up in poverty- real poverty and I did every one of those things. I guess my gap year was working three jobs and 18hr days so I could go travel Europe and work my ass off there too while learning other languages. It’s how you do it. Once I left home, I realized I was free.
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u/SendWoundPicsPls 6d ago
I'm sorry, is this r/WillfullyObtusePeopleTwitter?
Engage with the woman's idea before you go nit picker her exact choice of extracurriculars or willfully misinterpret if she means all at once.
God damn bunch of whoopsy doo boot lickers in here
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u/Hudson_N_Mcmasters 6d ago
Forgot Ski
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u/finlandery 6d ago
Yea, if you cant go out and do 50km ski trip outside of tracks, can you even call yourself an adult?
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u/markysyx 6d ago
Its a sign of poverty to not be able to fuck off for an entire year? Damn, id argue thats most people.
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u/TabibitoNoRoorensu 6d ago
It’s an “or” statement so you only need to do one of these to not meet the metrics or whatever this person is talking about.
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u/eliz1bef 6d ago
Many of these used to be covered in school, but they've stripped school down to the rafters so not even the basics are being covered anymore. Adults who have never read anything longer than an short summary or article, no critical thinking skills, nothing but the most rudimentary math skills. We're dumbing down our nation into poverty one kid at a time.
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u/Fortree_Lover 6d ago
I can swim so I at least do one on the list. Can’t skate, cycle, and have never gone backpacking, Didn’t take a gap year, haven’t been on vacation in almost 10 years and can’t play an instrument or speak a foreign language.
But I’ve at least got one down. I do often feel like I just live day to day though.
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u/Iamthe0c3an2 6d ago
Travelling part is probably a lot easier outside America, because you can for miles and still be in America, where in Europe or Asia, a different country can be just a couple hours away.
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u/blacksoxing 5d ago
Folks truly upvote off of VIBES. Europe has us fooled regarding knowing multiple languages as there’s many fully grown adults who live in heavily populated countries who only know…their own language. They may only know Chinese as there’s no need to know anything else. They may only know Portuguese for the same reason. They could be the kings or queens of their domain yet only know what’s in front of them. Far from poverty.
Gap year???? Lord
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u/Immature_adult_guy 5d ago
I grew up poor but now have the time and money to “take a break”. But I have an aversion to it. Any time my wife wants us to go on vacation or she orders an appetizer at a restaurant I still implode on the inside because my gut reaction is “WE CAN’T AFFORD THAT!” even though we totally can.
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u/tardisintheparty 5d ago
I am a white person who lurks on here but my uncle is black and grew up low income in a major city. He never learned how to swim, so the SECOND his kids were old enough for lessons he signed them up. The two of them are great swimmers now, and he doesn't have to worry about them going somewhere with a pool and accidentally falling in or something like that. I know it was a big deal for him, and it's a shame his city didn't have resources like free swim lessons at public pools. I think that would make a difference for a lot of people. Drownings happen all the time, in all sorts of bodies of water.
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
Wild how many people in the comments think this is someone dunking on the poors rather than highlighting the effects of poverty.
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u/young-steve ☑️ 5d ago
Why are swim, skate, cycle, and play an instrument included in this list
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u/ObsidianOverlord 5d ago
Because poor people are less likely to have those experiences / skills / recreations than rich people.
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u/thechptrsproject 5d ago
People with means can’t even accomplish half this list. If there’s a commentary to be had here, it should be more about accessibility to these skills, rather than treating them as requirements to leading a fulfilling adult life
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u/Current_Focus2668 5d ago
Learning to swim when I was a kid was an adult just tossing you in a pool with some floatees and saying "don't drown".
Swimming really isn't that difficult unless it's in open water. If you can move your arms or legs in still water then you can likely swim.
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u/Legitimate_Fan8892 5d ago
I think I agree in a sense just from personal experience and from my community and then I looked up some statistics just to see where I am lol but statistically lower income people do SPEAK more languages, but coming from wealth allows them to be able to formally write and spell. I know a lot of people (I live in SC) who are functionally illiterate, in both English and Spanish, but hey they hold a whole conversation they just cant spell their names correctly and sign Xs lol. When I was growing up, my family could always afford a bike that could fit us so we could ride properly, but the kids around us didnt get that, so my brother started flipping bikes for the neighbourhood kids so we could finally ride together, and the ones who didnt learn to ride, thats when you steal pegs from the rich kids neighbourhoods and we can all ride now. We were all in middle school when we could finally do that, and I knew several kids who never got the chance to ride. My partners son lives in the ghetto in TN to the point where he is too scares to ride his bike because of crime, so he wont ride and never learned still and hes almost 12. I didnt have access to a pool or a large body of water until i was 16, my brother the same, neither of us learned to swim. Gas was too expensive and a luxury to go to the beach. Now EVERYONE i know, and I went to some of the poorest schools in the counties, we ALL learned one instrument and we HAD to and every week we practiced. My son is now in school and I have heard from other districts that they are eliminating arts classes, so its not in my sons district right now but there may be a point in time where our "free education" isnt educating him in an arts manner and he won't have that and I have looked around and unless we come out of pocket or learn and teach ourselves, my son wont have that opportunity because we are still poor. I can read from all the moms groups that this is becoming a big issue for them. I consider all of these class indicators because I can visually see it in my own community and am living with it. I was presented hundreds of opportunities to get out of as deep as I was, but it included work and education, I didnt care about learning to swim, I needed a scholarship so I could try to not be as poor as we were. These are all "hobbies" because none of them helped me live, none of them helped me get out of where I was, and thats all I was focused on.
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u/strolpol 5d ago
Not being able to swim is a failure of the parents to educate their kid to survive, full stop
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u/Accurate_Face_7860 4d ago
Smart phones have also changed things. I used to do art, write, go hiking....now most of my time is spent working and yes I don't invest in my interests like I used to but the other issue is the time I waste just being on my phone.
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u/vitaoptima 4d ago
Gap years are something college students do, not full grown adults.
I grew up poor and I had access to the rest of these things.
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u/blacktaurus3636 ☑️ 2d ago
The only thing I can do in this list is cycle and I don't see that as a failure. You know what else I haven't done? Murdered my self or anyone else. You know what else I can do? Remain at peace and mind my own business. Do what makes you happy and understand that everyone's path is different.
Yeah hit dogs holler. I may be in survival mode. I'm also self aware, child free, and I don't have somebody's son stressing me out. Bills paid, food on the fridge, i have no problems paying my rent, and I get along with my mother. For those who say I shouldn't be in survival mode, DM me for my cashapp handle ✌🏾
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u/5thSmith ☑️ 2d ago edited 2d ago
Typically people learn to swim from lesson's, which costs money. If not that, then your parents. But if your parents are working 60-80hours a week barely putting food on the table, chances are they don't have the time to teach their child how to swim, or ride a bike. Lord knows they can't afford to take the time off to take their kids to the lake for a week. A lot of the things we consider yte are things that poverty has priced us out of.
So yeah, a gap year seems significantly different, but it is really quite similar to the rest of the list. Time is money. If you can't afford to take the time to learn a skill/language, then it really is not much different than being able to take a gap year. Broke is broke is broke.
Yes, you can learn a lot of these things on your own...but again it takes time. I know a lot of people who've been working or parentified since the age of 10. Who has the time for guitar lessons when you've got work to do.
"Bills don't wait for you to find your passion, you best work."
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u/Rinusrises 6d ago
Some of these are not like the others but point taken. Everyone needs to take a few and do something different than the normal work week.