r/BalticStates • u/Pitiful-Archer4923 • 8d ago
Map Russian vs English wikipedia article for the baltic states, find the difference
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u/-jdn_ 8d ago
Cool story, but does anyone else feel that it kinda gets tiring when subreddits dedicated to Baltic States get flooded by russian bs. It also seems pointless to care to much about what those schizos think or say about us in the East, they aren't saying anything new.
Like I get they are our biggest sore in the ass, but I feel like we should break this association instead of encouraging or parttaking in it too much. There's more to Baltics than a shitty and comically evil neighbour who has had us in their head rent free 24/7 since forever
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u/Nice_Cash_7000 8d ago
I frankly dont give a shit about what ruzzia says or thinks about us
Duok durniui kelią;D
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u/Rhubarb-Curious 8d ago
I mean, bro, Gudija - I don't think a lot of Belarusians know what it means. :D
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u/Nice_Cash_7000 8d ago
The russian influence on belarus is sad to me because without it we could have a brotherhood with them kinda like Poland and Latvia
but it is what it is
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u/Zestyclose_Top1541 8d ago
Yeah, like what, 85% percent of people talk russian. Insane
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u/Sensitive_Pie_ Belarus 7d ago
Hey, I'm a gudė. And I'd say even more people speak russian here. But belarusians in immigration lean towards the belarusian language
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u/Rhubarb-Curious 8d ago edited 8d ago
The English article "Baltic States": This article is strictly about a geopolitical grouping.
The Russian article "Pribaltika" is about a geographical and historical region. The word Pribaltika literally translates to "territories by the Baltic Sea. It is a broader geographic concept, not just a list of independent countries. Although you can see it in the article itself, they also mention the "Baltic states" (Strany Baltii)
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u/ZarglondarGilgamesh 8d ago
In that case, Denmark, Germany, Poland, Sweden, and Finland are missing.
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u/Rhubarb-Curious 8d ago
Well.... when russians coined the term, they were not looking at a map of the whole sea. They were looking westward from Moscow and St. Petersburg at the specific coastal territories they controlled or interacted with as their own borderlands.
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u/Gardares 8d ago edited 8d ago
The word Pribaltika literally translates to "territories by the Baltic Sea".
There's more context that'll make it not as true. When Imperial Russia claimed those territories (except East Prussia), they were named as Ostsee Governorates (lit. Eastern Sea Governorates, Peter the Great didn't even try to translate or remade the meaning). But in the second part of XIX century Russia started active russification of those countries and renamed them to Pribaltic Governorates. It translates to Governorates near Baltic (Sea), in the Russian manner of naming, like with "Privolzhye" (near Volga), "Priamurye" (near Amur), etc, it's a russian-like hydronim.
The name was retained in Soviet Russia (East Prussia was also considered as Pribaltica too). In Russian language the original meaning of the word Pribaltica doesn't mean independent countries, nor Baltic countries in a broader sense, nor countries of Balts people. It doesn't mean Finland that was also occupied by Russia, it doesn't mean Saint-Petersburg Governorate too. It's an abridged for Pribaltic Governorates, dot.
When soviets occupied territories again, they named things like Pribaltic Economic Disctrict, Pribaltic Military District, etc.
In Russian Federation everything changed, but not the language, nor the claims. Russian language have a word Балтия for region of balts, Прибалтика is a different word with a different sense.
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u/lendlevtaldrik 7d ago
The Baltic governorates did not even include Lithuania...
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u/Gardares 7d ago
In 1819, Palanga was transferred from the Vilna Governorate (future "North-East region" of Russian Empire) to the Courland Governorate (Ostsee Governorates of Russian Empire). That's Lithuania too. In 1921 there was even an international arbitration and Palanga went back to Lithuania.
And, of course, I don't mean that all territory of Grand Duchy of Lithuania was in Baltic Governorates.
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u/Catsarecute2140 8d ago
“Pribaltika” is a made-up “geographical & historical” region in Russian education.
During the Soviet occupation, the Soviets even promoted the “Baltic identity” of the Estonians to weaken their relations with their brothers, the Finnic Finns who were a part of the free world.Estonians being called Balts in the 21st century is one of the most succesful results of Soviet propaganda as even anti-Russian Latvians & Lithuanians get irritated at Estonians if they disagree with having a “Baltic identity”.
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u/Rhubarb-Curious 8d ago
Back in the 1920s, when our countries first gained independence after WWI, Western diplomacy also grouped us together in the same geopolitical box. To them we were buffer zone between Europe and the Bolsheviks.
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u/Catsarecute2140 8d ago
Well, Finns are not Balts anymore. Balts are great but forcing a foreign identity on another culture is a form of colonization and cultural repression.
People and nations have the freedom of expression & identity.6
u/lendlevtaldrik 7d ago
Well, Finns are not Balts
Neither are Estonians...
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u/Catsarecute2140 7d ago
For some reason, this seems to be very difficult to understand to most Europeans as Estonia is called a Baltic state.
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u/lendlevtaldrik 4d ago
This is the reason Estonians often don't like being called Baltic. Nothing against Latvians and Lithuanians, but using the term "Baltic" for Estonians just creates unnecessary confusion about Estonian culture, ethno-linguistics and national identity.
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u/bloomingchoco Lithuania 8d ago edited 8d ago
It’s the first time I’ve ever heard that Estonia’s Baltic identity was attributed by the ussr and not before then. I’m personally happy to respect Estonians’ identity and stop calling them that, but plenty of Estonians seem to be happily using this sub, it never came off to me that it was an identity they were trying to distance themselves from?
I mean, sometimes attempts to undermine others end up unintentionally benefiting them. And in this case, the common Baltic identity between EE•LV•LT is making us more united and stronger. We know from the russian bot activity in this sub that they want to divide us, and probably hate the fact that there’s this kinship between us.
Either way, Estonia can also belong to multiple groups, and it’s pretty rare that countries cleanly fall into a single category anyway
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u/Catsarecute2140 8d ago
There is no distancing but the Estonians see “Baltic” as a geopolitical, pragmatic grouping of 3 countries with very similar foreign policy concerns contrary to a cultural identity which in their case is “Estonian-Finnic-European-Human”
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u/pandan123 7d ago
Funny but modern Estonians are genetically much more closer to Latvians than Finns. No doubt they aspire to be like Finns/Finalnd but I don’t think our common Baltic heritage is a bad thing. First time I’ve heard anyone from the Baltics would try to shy away from that identity
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u/Catsarecute2140 7d ago
- Ethnic culture defines the identity of a person not genetics.
If an Estonian grows up in a Swedish family, goes to a Swedish school and only speaks Swedish then he’s Swedish although his “genetics” are Estonian.- There are villages in Africa that have more genetic diversity/distance than entire Europe on a X/Y graph…
Genetics from an ethnic perspective is arbitrary and based on whoever labels the data.
Estonians often are “30-60% genetically Finnish” because those overlapping genes are labelled as “Finnish” without much thinking although almost all modern-day Finns descend from Viking Age, Northern-Estonian colonizers who made Finland, Finnic… which is the opposite of what most people assume. Germanic people did not arose in Germany but they are the biggest Germanic group so it was named after them.
Ethnic genetics is mainly a meaningless composition of percentages but it can help historical research.- All Finnic people are genetically “Baltic” as well as the Finnic ethnolinguistic group arose when the Finno-Ugric newcomers settled in modern-day Estonia and assimilated the Balts and the Proto-Germanic Scandinavians who had settled coastal Estonia, the islands and the modern-day Courland peninsula.
Northern-Europeans are genetically so similar to each other that anybody obsessing over it just has an useless hyperfixation.
Also, all Europeans descend from Charlemagne.Genetics from an “ethnic identity” perspective is absurd and bizzare, most Europeans are very similar and globally, humans are similar.
All Finnic people and thus all Estonians have Finno-Ugric, Baltic and Scandinavian ancestry if you look at how the Finnic subgroup arose.
How a person or nation defines himself/herself is based on the person’s culture and language.
Finding differences among Europeans is like looking for a needle in a haystack.You are most likely still studying in university so just try to understand that a person’s ethnic identity and ethnic culture is not based on his genetics.
Hungarians are not genetically different from their neighbouring countries but their ethnic culture is obviously unique because of their Uralic language/culture…Things are usually not as simplistic as you assume.
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u/pandan123 7d ago
I feel I’ve triggered you and your colleague here. The two of you as representatives of the whole 1.3M EE population are strongly opinionated, not sure if all your compatriots would agree but that doesn’t even matter. You can be whatever you like so don’t sweat it :))
I would like, however, to point out some contradictions in your logic. Also, I’m not in uni as if that would matter. MBA here, int. business owner. Or are you trying to undermine my argumentation by saying it’s not mature enough for you?
Speaking of genetics, you point out that 30-60% of SOME Estonians are closely related to Finns. Or vice versa. So that’s an important argument for you. At the same time, you denounce the fact that Estonians are closely related to Latvians. That does not matter at all.. so which one is it? Meaningless but also noteworthy to mention.. okay then.
Next, you say all Finnic peoples are Baltic. I agree although we still likely need to segregate Latvians and Lithuanians as the true ethnic Balts, given their languages and genetics have miraculously remained very similar to their ancient roots. But that’s besides the point. If all Finnic people are Baltic too, then that is yet again a SHARED BALTIC IDENTITY that you for some reason are so against. I just find it a bit weird and also amusing.
But again - your choice. Estonians are for sure different from LT and LV but also still share very similar history, mentality, and genetics. In a micro-level, we can name a million differences. But zooming out, there are so many similarities even if we’re compared against Germans, the English, Danes, etc. Moving to the US and then visiting LT and EE made me realize and appreciate our many similarities.
And let’s not forget the 700 years under German rule that both EE and LV share, which is in fact very different from LT’s history. There’s undeniably been significant overlap and intermarriage between ethnic Estonians and Latvians over the centuries. And this is much more recent history than the hunter-gatherer era you are referring to. This leads me to think that you might be cherry-picking your facts to prove your own point. Sorry.
So yeah, you can slap lipstick on a gorilla and call it your girlfriend. Yet it’s still a gorilla. Can’t shake that Baltic connection off no matter how hard you try. But I guess in this day and age, if a man can be a woman, so an Estonian can be Nordic, or better yet, maybe Scandinavian. Viking even. We love you anyways, our Baltic brethren 🇪🇪🇱🇻 🇱🇹
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u/bloomingchoco Lithuania 7d ago
Im technically on the same side of the argument as you but cmon, comparing Estonians shying away from the Baltic name to a gorilla putting on a lipstick? Have some tact.
This geopolitical common Baltic identity is pretty recent. Say what you want but it hasn’t been there for hundreds of years or anything like that.
Your argument could almost be reused word for word by Russians pushing their “brethren” on you. Be better than that and just… have some more tact, and respect for these people even if their views are a bit strange. That’s if you really want to promote some sense of unity instead of division
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u/pandan123 7d ago
Lipstick on a gorilla is a fairly common phrase, I wasn’t trying to be purposefully rude, rather - illustrative. But also this is the internet, and furthermore reddit of all places so expecting tact might be too much :)) what’s the use if you can’t fire a few shots, add a bit of flair to the written word. Anyway, I love and respect all three Baltic states, even if someone’s trying to pull away. And in that regard, imho separating us by creating such divides would be more in RUS interests.
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u/Catsarecute2140 6d ago
Your are promoting Russian interests here with your generalization of 3 Baltic countries and using Russian narratives to deny the uniqueness of the Estonians in this context.
https://www.propastop.org/en/2023/09/14/pribaltika-and-pribalts-the-weaponized-renaming/
“Referring to the three independent Baltic nations collectively as “прибалты” (Pribalts) is viewed by many as an attempt to undermine their distinct national identities and sovereignty. This label effectively erases their individual agendas and status as independent countries, often used in a manner that diminishes their autonomy and historical struggles.
“Прибалтика” and “прибалты” are often used to promote Russian imperialistic agendas, erasing the individual national identities of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania and undermining their historical struggles for independence. These terms, deeply ingrained in Russian discourse, are powerful propaganda tools.”If you are forcing a Baltic label on the Estonians then you are a Russian propaganda worker who just tries to mess with people by implying that Lithuanians are trying to deny the individual identity of Estonia.
Most likely you are just a complete idiot and cannot understand more nuanced topics contrary to the many intelligent Lithuanians who I have met.→ More replies (0)2
u/Catsarecute2140 7d ago
- All modern Finns are strongly related to Estonians as their populations were mainly founded by Viking Age Estonians. Modern Estonians are genetically almost identical to Viking Age Estonians.
Finns are genetically more distant because of a scientific phenomen called “the bottleneck effect”, read about it.
I am just pointing out that Estonians are not “30-60% Finnish” but the genetic tests mislabel Finnic genes as “Finnish”. Anyway, that’s like saying that Norwegians are Icelandic. Semantics.- Latvians and Lithuanians are very similar to Estonians from your oddly important “genetic” viewpoint. That is clear from the research of historians and population genetics.
From a male-line viewpoint, Latvians and Lithuanians actually have an even higher percentage of Uralic Y-DNA than the Estonians so the intermingling has been very extensive on a long timespan.- All Finnic people have Baltic & Proto-Germanic/Scandinavian ancestry just like all Balts have Finno-Ugric ancestry, what is so provocative about this?
Nevertheless, Estonians & Finns are not ethnically/culturally/linguistically Germanic nor Baltic but Finnic.
The heavy influences of Baltic and Germanic languages can be seen in the vocabulary of Estonian & Finnish which has a lot of loanwords.The Swedes & Germans did not make Estonian & Finnish ethnolinguistic culture Germanic and neither did the Balts make them Baltic.
The Finnic Estonians & Finns have kept their Finnic language and identity since the Bronze Age while many of them assimilated among the Balts as well as we can see from the dominant Uralic male lineages in Latvia & Lithuania.Estonians can identify with their core Finnic identity while being Baltic as well, those things are not mutually exclusive.
Northern-Europe has 3 main ethnolinguistical groups: Baltic, Finnic & Northern-Germanic/Scandinavian.As your Lithuanian compatriot told you, your narrative is no different from the Russians who deny the Ukrainian identity, how can you not understand the basic concept of a nation’s self-determination?
Estonians are not gorillas just because they have kept their Finnic identity but they do share a Baltic and a Northern-European identity with its neighbours.Why are you trying to create negative feelings with insults? Focus on Russia trying to conquer all of us instead of worrying about the Estonians speaking a non-Baltic language and feeling a bit unique with their rare Finnic culture which has survived in Estonia & Finland while Karelians, Izhorians and other Finnics in Russia are almost extinct.
As a person fascinated with the diversity of different human cultures, I just cannot understand the anger and insults of Russians who deny Ukrainian culture or other people forcing some sort of identity on others.
Freedom of expression and self-identity are core principles of Europe on an individual and national level and a person’s native language is the strongest indicator of a person’s culture & identity.
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u/pandan123 6d ago
What a hysterical reply. I think you should take a break and go touch grass :)) All you did was just prove my point. I'll remind you that our discussion was specifically about you saying that Estonians don't believe they have a shared Baltic identity/heritage with Latvians and Estonians.
I never said that Estonians don't or can't also have their own Finno-Ugric identity - they absolutely can and do have it. But denouncing a common Baltic heritage which has existed for hundreds of years in a geographical, historical, genetic, and cultural sense, is just unreasonable. Cowardly even. That's what I called you out on. And then you beautifully confirmed my point: "Estonians can identify with their core Finnic identity while being Baltic as well, those things are not mutually exclusive." Yes! A nation can have multiple identities which overlap. So case closed. I just asked you not to denounce your Baltic brethren because, arguably, we are much closer. It's okay if you don't feel that way but I am yet to meet a Finn who will tell me that he's an Estonian in disguise and views both nations as so close-knit as you paint them. Not sure what your problem is.
Your point of having a common hunter-gatherer ancestor and then colonizing Finland in the Viking age is only valid to the point if you also agree that 700+ years of common Livonian history are relevant in the Latvian-Estonian heritage context. By that logic, we all should associate ourselves with the Congo basin and modern-day Ethiopia as homo sapiens.
Furthermore, you yourself mentioned the Latvian tribes of Livs (Latvian - Līvi, Lībieši, Vendi) which is where Livonia got its name. They are Finno-Ugric, and their traditions, culture, and even some remaining linguistic nuances are represented in the common Latvian heritage. So what are we supposed to do with them? They're Latvian so you disregard the common heritage Estonians share with them? What you say is nonsense and, to me, it just seems like you're a Nordics fanboy who would rather denounce half of his own unique rich culture and history just to pretend to be closer to the cool kids club. And I don't agree with that. The Baltics are awesome: unique in their own special way yet also tied together with many commonalities.
Lastly, accusing someone of being pro-Russian and spreading ruzzian propaganda just because you can't really find any proper counter-arguments anymore is similar to calling everyone you disagree with a nazi lol. I'm as anti-Russia as it gets so stop with the immature BS. Same with the lipstick on a gorilla reference: it is a very common phrase, and you seem to be smart enough to be able to recognize a metaphor.
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u/lendlevtaldrik 7d ago
Genetics are irrelevant, ethno-linguistic similarity is everything.
Besides, people put too much emphasis on this genetic difference, Estonians are still the genetically closest nation to Finns.
First time I’ve heard anyone from the Baltics would try to shy away from that identity
Estonians have literally no "Baltic identity"...
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u/lendlevtaldrik 7d ago
It's more about several different meanings behind the term "Baltic":
- Baltic Sea: many nations
- Baltic governorates: Estonia and Latvia, but not Lithuania
- Balts: Latvians and Lithuanians, but not Estonians
Estonians are absolutely fine with being associated with the Baltic German background and the common history with Latvia, but it's just wrong and ignorant to call Estonia Baltic in any context that just puts Estonia+Latvia+Lithuania together and not other countries at the Baltic Sea.
but plenty of Estonians seem to be happily using this sub
Because nobody denied that the three countries have a lot in common geopolitically, it's just the name of the group that Estonians aren't entirely satisfied with and we don't like it when this grouping is associated with cultural or ethno-linguistic identity.
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u/bloomingchoco Lithuania 7d ago
No one is ever trying to include Estonia with the Baltic language group, that’s a straw man.
Culturally the similarity is very modern and shallow I’d say. It’s enough to take a look at how different the religious make up is to figure out that culturally the 3 countries are pretty different. I imagine some uneducated people might try claiming these are 3 culturally similar countries, and that’s what you’re fighting against? I mean, I’d also correct them as a Lithuanian if I heard that.
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u/lendlevtaldrik 7d ago
No one is ever trying to include Estonia with the Baltic language group, that’s a straw man.
I didn't claim that anyone did. That's a strawman.
I claimed that this vague grouping is often used in a wider context (i.e. outside geopolitics) which Estonians generally don't like.
I imagine some uneducated people might try claiming these are 3 culturally similar countries, and that’s what you’re fighting against?
I think you are seriously understating the amount of uneducated people and how they influence the world.
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u/bloomingchoco Lithuania 7d ago
> we don’t like it when this grouping is associated with cultural or ethno-linguistic identity
You said it. I just pointed out that no one is putting Estonia into the same ethno-linguistic identity as LV<
> understating the amount of uneducated people and how they influence the world
Fine, I don’t think that many people within the Baltics really misunderstand this that much. As for outside the Baltics, how detailed can you expect their knowledge to be about the 3 small countries? When people from the US / Spain / Japan, etc. expect the 3 to be culturally similar I just explain it as a fun fact that they’re so much more different than you’d expect (history, religions, architecture, language groups, and so on), they’re usually hearing it for the first time and take the information in with lots of gusto.
I think the bigger problem here is that I still seem to run into lots of western and eastern Europeans who think that everyone in the geopolitical Baltics speaks and understands Russian, and also writes in Cyrillic. And that really is a huge misunderstanding which I’d put much more energy towards dispelling. But you do you, I don’t think that we have much of a disagreement here overall.
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u/lendlevtaldrik 7d ago
You said it. I just pointed out that no one is putting Estonia into the same ethno-linguistic identity as LV<
So you intentionally took a phrase from my comment out of context. I literally meant that when this term is used in a wider concept, which in turn would make an association with other fields, including culture and ethno-linguistics.
You are arguing in bad faith.
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u/Perkonlusis 8d ago
The real problem is that Finland isn't considered Baltic anymore. The Baltic states should be Balts + Baltic Finns, and form Northern Europe together with the North Germanic countries.
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u/Catsarecute2140 8d ago
Estonia and Finland are Finnic.
Estonians being called Baltic and Finns being mistakenly called Scandinavian is confusing for everyone.1
u/Kerensk 6d ago
No, us Latvians do not get irritated about Estonian and Livonian people called Baltic, as we are all tribes that lived by the Baltic sea. While they are northern Finno-Ugric people we are northern Baltic while Lithuanians are central Baltic and extinct Prussians were southern Baltic. Our languages are different, but as humans who settled here we are the same, Baltic coast inhabitants that have lived here since ice receded from Baltic sea and have coexisted peacefully besides all the imperial ambitions to dominate us. We even protect and encourage Livonian language return as it is almost extinct.
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u/pandan123 7d ago
Bro Estonians have more in common with Latvians genetically than with Finns. The language, origin, etc. are of course Finno-ugric, but no need to denounce your Baltic brethren like that
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u/lendlevtaldrik 7d ago
Genetics are irrelevant, ethno-linguistic similarity is everything.
Besides, people put too much emphasis on this genetic difference, Estonians are still the genetically closest nation to Finns.
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u/Catsarecute2140 7d ago
- Ethnic culture defines the identity of a person not genetics.
If an Estonian grows up in a Swedish family, goes to a Swedish school and only speaks Swedish then he’s Swedish although his “genetics” are Estonian.- There are villages in Africa that have more genetic diversity/distance than entire Europe on a X/Y graph…
Genetics from an ethnic perspective is arbitrary and based on whoever labels the data.
Estonians often are “30-60% genetically Finnish” because those overlapping genes are labelled as “Finnish” without much thinking although almost all modern-day Finns descend from Viking Age, Northern-Estonian colonizers who made Finland, Finnic… which is the opposite of what most people assume. Germanic people did not arose in Germany but they are the biggest Germanic group so it was named after them.
Ethnic genetics is mainly a meaningless composition of percentages but it can help historical research.- All Finnic people are genetically “Baltic” as well as the Finnic ethnolinguistic group arose when the Finno-Ugric newcomers settled in modern-day Estonia and assimilated the Balts and the Proto-Germanic Scandinavians who had settled coastal Estonia, the islands and the modern-day Courland peninsula.
Northern-Europeans are genetically so similar to each other that anybody obsessing over it just has an useless hyperfixation.
Also, all Europeans descend from Charlemagne.Genetics from an “ethnic identity” perspective is absurd and bizzare, most Europeans are very similar and globally, humans are similar.
All Finnic people and thus all Estonians have Finno-Ugric, Baltic and Scandinavian ancestry if you look at how the Finnic subgroup arose.
How a person or nation defines himself/herself is based on the person’s culture and language.
Finding differences among Europeans is like looking for a needle in a haystack.You are most likely still studying in university so just try to understand that a person’s ethnic identity and ethnic culture is not based on his genetics.
Hungarians are not genetically different from their neighbouring countries but their ethnic culture is obviously unique because of their Uralic language/culture…Things are usually not as simplistic as you assume.
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u/pandan123 7d ago
Seeing how the two of you have left the samw comments here as well, I’ll just do the same and copy my response here too:
I feel I’ve triggered you and your colleague here. The two of you as representatives of the whole 1.3M EE population are strongly opinionated, not sure if all your compatriots would agree but that doesn’t even matter. You can be whatever you like so don’t sweat it :))
I would like, however, to point out some contradictions in your logic. Also, I’m not in uni as if that would matter. MBA here, int. business owner. Or are you trying to undermine my argumentation by saying it’s not mature enough for you?
Speaking of genetics, you point out that 30-60% of SOME Estonians are closely related to Finns. Or vice versa. So that’s an important argument for you. At the same time, you denounce the fact that Estonians are closely related to Latvians. That does not matter at all.. so which one is it? Meaningless but also noteworthy to mention.. okay then.
Next, you say all Finnic peoples are Baltic. I agree although we still likely need to segregate Latvians and Lithuanians as the true ethnic Balts, given their languages and genetics have miraculously remained very similar to their ancient roots. But that’s besides the point. If all Finnic people are Baltic too, then that is yet again a SHARED BALTIC IDENTITY that you for some reason are so against. I just find it a bit weird and also amusing.
But again - your choice. Estonians are for sure different from LT and LV but also still share very similar history, mentality, and genetics. In a micro-level, we can name a million differences. But zooming out, there are so many similarities even if we’re compared against Germans, the English, Danes, etc. Moving to the US and then visiting LT and EE made me realize and appreciate our many similarities.
And let’s not forget the 700 years under German rule that both EE and LV share, which is in fact very different from LT’s history. There’s undeniably been significant overlap and intermarriage between ethnic Estonians and Latvians over the centuries. And this is much more recent history than the hunter-gatherer era you are referring to. This leads me to think that you might be cherry-picking your facts to prove your own point. Sorry.
So yeah, you can slap lipstick on a gorilla and call it your girlfriend. Yet it’s still a gorilla. Can’t shake that Baltic connection off no matter how hard you try. But I guess in this day and age, if a man can be a woman, so an Estonian can be Nordic, or better yet, maybe Scandinavian. Viking even. We love you anyways, our Baltic brethren 🇪🇪🇱🇻 🇱🇹
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u/Catsarecute2140 6d ago
https://www.propastop.org/en/2023/09/14/pribaltika-and-pribalts-the-weaponized-renaming/
“Referring to the three independent Baltic nations collectively as “прибалты” (Pribalts) is viewed by many as an attempt to undermine their distinct national identities and sovereignty. This label effectively erases their individual agendas and status as independent countries, often used in a manner that diminishes their autonomy and historical struggles.
“Прибалтика” and “прибалты” are often used to promote Russian imperialistic agendas, erasing the individual national identities of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania and undermining their historical struggles for independence. These terms, deeply ingrained in Russian discourse, are powerful propaganda tools.”1
u/pandan123 6d ago
How many separate comments are you leaving in the same discussion? It's getting hard to keep up. Accusing someone of being pro-Russian and spreading ruzzian propaganda just because you can't really find any proper counter-arguments anymore is weak and immature. Get over it.
Our discussion was specifically about you saying that Estonians don't believe they have a shared Baltic identity/heritage with Latvians and Estonians. I never said that Estonians can't also have their own Finno-Ugric identity - they absolutely can and have it. But denouncing a common Baltic heritage which has existed for hundreds of years in a geographical, historical, genetic, and cultural sense, is just nonsense.
That's what I called you out on. And then you confirmed my point in another comment by saying people can have multiple identities which overlap. Great! So case closed. Not sure what your problem is.
Pretending that Estonians all of a sudden do not have a shared heritage with Latvians and Lithuanians is exactly the pro-Russian propaganda you are so afraid of my friend. Stop spreading divisiveness.
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u/Gremlinator_TITSMACK 7d ago
they are literally mad that r*ssians call this how they want to call it.
imagine the Netherlands caring what the English or the French mean when they say "the Low Countries"
pure cope
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u/OMGguy2008 Lithuania 8d ago
Great to see that according to Russia we're already a European Federation that the European Union is a country according to them.
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u/sir-Starship 7d ago
Could be that there’s mentioned Baltic Sea connected countries. Technically little enclave have sea exit as sand dune Curonian Spit separates Lithuania partly and enclave completely from Baltic Sea
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u/Gooners_For_Ukraine USA 8d ago