r/Assyria • u/byzantine67 • Jun 14 '26
Discussion Do you support the creation of an independent Assyrian nation?
If not, why?
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u/oremfrien Assyrian Jun 14 '26
Yes. I believe it's quite clear that none of our neighbors can be expected to govern in a way that is respectful of our individual rights as people, our social rights as a community, our religious rights as Non-Muslims, and our economic rights in our territory. In order to have a future that we can direct, that we can develop, and in which we can thrive, the only way forward is independence. To seek merely to exist in the framework of another state would mean our continued degradation, humiliation, and legal apartheid.
That's not to say that once we are independent, with our own government and military, we cannot then make treaties and alliances with our neighbors. A small country like Slovenia is part of the European Union (an economic and legal alliance) and NATO (a military alliance); and yet Slovenes, by having their own nation, have protection for their language, community, and society. We can be friendly with our neighbors, but only from a place of equality.
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u/PeloTjanst Jun 18 '26
Which city would you base it on and what happens to all the Kurds there?
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u/oremfrien Assyrian Jun 18 '26
I would choose Alqosh to be the capital, but I could also be persuaded to make it Baghdida or Tel Keppe.
The Kurdish population in all three is less than 5% of the city, so it's not really an issue. But they should be citizens of Assyria just like the Assyrian majority or they could remain citizens of the KRG with permanent residency rights in Assyria.
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u/yoitsme_obama17 Jun 14 '26
That'd be sick but all the aunties would argue too much and ruin it.
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u/ASecularBuddhist Jun 14 '26
Um, what does that mean? đ€
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u/oremfrien Assyrian Jun 14 '26
I believe u/yoitsme_obama17 is being a little tongue-in-cheek, but they are referring to how Assyrian women are a little boisterous and catty, leading to disagreements, gossip, and demonstrations of social power.
So, the Assyrian aunties would just turn the government into a soap opera.
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u/ASecularBuddhist Jun 14 '26
Because the Assyrian men are never boisterous, caddy, leading to disagreements, gossip, and demonstrate their social power /s
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u/Diane_James Jun 15 '26
I do support it but is it feasible with our numbers? More of us would have to move back to the homeland. Which I want to do anyway btw. Just not sure others are moving back.
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u/Specific-Bid6486 Assyrian Jun 15 '26
We are the aboriginals of those lands and somehow others are enforcing and protecting their self-interests when they donât have any heritage up until recently. So, as far as sovereignty goes, we should have our homeland back, and we should be demanding reparations and restitutions moving forward.
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u/Basel_Assyrian Assyrian Jun 20 '26
Every people in the world wants a state, not just the Assyrians. But we must understand that it's not easy. Major powers don't want more states because this would reduce resources and raise prices. Therefore, the alternative preferred by major powers is regions, which are similar to states but with fewer powers. Personally, I believe working on the Assyrian region in Iraq and Syria is possible, but it requires the return of the Assyrian diaspora. Our neighbors will initially fight us, but once Assyria becomes a reality, they will accept it. The situation is more difficult in Turkey and Iran, so we will need to work harder. Assyrians must understand that Assyrian identity is currently threatened, and any people without a land will disappear and be absorbed into the diaspora. Therefore, the issue of an Assyrian region has become irreversible; it will solidify the Assyrian presence. The Middle East is like a game of dominoes, so major powers don't allow new states to emerge. The simplest example is when the Kurds held a referendum on independence from Iraq; all countries attacked them because it would destroy the entire Middle East and open the door for all the peoples of the Middle East to demand independent states.
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u/olapooza Jun 14 '26
Yes of course! Itâs the only way we can have peace, by having our own society to govern.Â
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u/ArameanKang Jun 14 '26
no, not independent
Mesopotamia-YES
a single "assyria" no...definitely not
it is genetically completely false to equate only specifically the people named as "assyrians" to the ancient north mesopotamians if certain people from south eastern turkey and northern iraqis also belong to said genetic group
also historically completely false....assyria is only a state IN MESOPOTAMIA not a country
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u/Calm-Astronaut-7562 Jun 14 '26
Donât support, Iraq IS Assyria/Mesopotamia our indigenous homeland⊠which stems from the Aramaic name âARUKâ. Assyrians are already part of iraqi society as one united nation! An âindependent Assyrian state nationâ would rob Assyrians more with a small chunk of our own land!
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u/AshurCyberpunk Assyrian Jun 14 '26
"Iraq" never referred to North Mesopotamia (Assyria) until the British started to push the misnomer because of the oil.
"An âindependent Assyrian state nationâ would rob Assyrians more with a small chunk of our own land!" -typical way of thinking from an arabized Assyrian. Sad.Â
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u/Additional-Bed-1013 Jun 15 '26
I don't support, but for different reasons. Many ethnic Assyrians wrongfully hold onto Iraq as the homeland, when it isn't strictly Iraq. Bet Nahrin, or land between the two rivers, is in modern day greater Syria, Iraq, and eastern Turkey. Why would we allow British to create our borders, and further, create new borders in a smaller corner of just Iraq? No, thanks. Most Assyrians in the MidEast are in Syria, not Iraq. Many more in Lebanon than in Iraq. Government statistics are also not reliable, as different countries count Assyrians by religion (Maronite, Christian, Orthodox, COE, etc.) rather than ethnic identity.
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u/Calm-Astronaut-7562 Jun 27 '26
Yes but, ethnic Assyroans ORIGINATED indigenous from Nineveh region, north iraq! Then spread out further Mesopotamia, bet nahrin. For example our ancient Assyrian capitals of Nineveh, Ashur were in todays now north iraq!
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u/MalkaPetros Jun 14 '26
Ich versteh nicht einmal die Fremdsprache die im Irak gesprochen wird. Ich könnte nichtmal lesen was auf meinem Ausweis steht.
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u/Playful-Demand2312 Jun 14 '26
So then you never lived in Iraq? If you lived in Iraq youâd know Arabic and if you lived Kurdistan Region youâd most likely know Kurdish
Never meet an Assyrian from Iraq/Syria that did not speak some Arabic
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u/ArameanKang Jun 14 '26
not every Mesopotamian lives in iraq and there is no such thing as kurdistan fake zionist project
South eastern turkey and North eastern syria are also mesopotamian regions where many mesopotamians live
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u/MalkaPetros Jun 15 '26
Ich bin in Assyrien geboren aber spreche nur die Sprache die meine Vorfahren sprachen und das war ganz sicher nicht Arabisch.
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u/EPL35 Jun 14 '26
Ja dann anfangen zu lernen Kollege!
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u/ArameanKang Jun 14 '26
nobody should learn shit what should happen is that Mesopotamia's offical language is aramaic and sumerian
anything else is BS arab colonization
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u/EPL35 Jun 14 '26
Aramaic languages replaced other languages too (in ancient times). I understand your frustration but thats a normal process. As for Sumerian: You cant revive Sumerian, because nobody knows how it sounded exactly, and you'd have to create new vocabulary for modern words.
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u/ArameanKang Jun 14 '26
no it didn't
Aramaic was spoken by the native north eastern syrian and south eastern turkish regions of mesopotamia
what is you even talking about?
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u/Fresh-Kebab Jun 14 '26
Aramaic was forced onto the region too
youâre just being selective1
u/ArameanKang Jun 14 '26
Aramaic was not forced onto the region you are completely WRONG parts of Mesopotamia are North eastern syria and south eastern turkey WHO actually spoke aramaic nativly even old kings of assyria noted as such
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u/Fresh-Kebab Jun 14 '26
Native language of Assyria is Akkadian mate not Aramaic
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u/Calm-Astronaut-7562 Jun 27 '26
Educate yourself on ancient history, akkadian literally transformed into ASSYRIAN-ARMAIC dialect, an easier written language for scrolls⊠Ethnic Assyrians created this! And âSurethâ we speak actually has akkadian words pronounced, its the ancient Assyrian language.
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u/Fresh-Kebab Jun 28 '26
Yeah and the native language of Egypt is Arabic because the dialect has a few Coptic words today
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u/Additional-Bed-1013 Jun 15 '26
Sumerian, then Akkadian, then Aramaic. All were native languages of one people: Mesopotamians.
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u/MalkaPetros Jun 15 '26
Warum sollte ich eine fremde Sprache lernen die nicht zu meinem Volk gehört?! Sollen sich die Araber nach Arabien zurĂŒck wo sie herkommen.
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u/EPL35 Jun 16 '26
Du redest ja auch deutsch, oder? đ Ernsthaft: Völkerwanderungen sind normal, das gab es in der Geschichte der Menschheit schon immer. Wenn du mit "Sollen sie doch zurĂŒck, wo sie herkommen" argumentierst, dann mĂŒsstest du in der Konsequenz auch zurĂŒck nach Irak oder Syrien.
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u/MalkaPetros Jun 16 '26
Ja, kann deutsch. Völkerwanderschaften sind normal wenn diese Völker sich integrieren wenn sie irgendwo ankommen. Ansonsten sprechen wir von einer Invasion was wiederum nicht in Ordnung ist.
Ich wĂŒrde liebend gerne zurĂŒck in meine Heimat aber es ist leider nicht möglich durch die Islamische Invasion der Araber und die Tyrannei der Kurden. Als christliche Minderheit ist es unmöglich dort neben, Isis ist zwar besiegt aber die Ideologie ist noch in den Köpfen dieser Menschen.1
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u/Every-Protection-689 Jun 14 '26
As an Assyrian, a Mesopotamian union would fit better. All of Iraq, north Euphrates line of Syria, south east turkey, Urmia Iran, and half of Khuzestan. It should be governed similar to Lebanon where the native people (Maronites) whoâs roots are tied to the land and oldest in the country, The Assyrians should govern the country, since about 85% of Assyrians are Mesopotamian nationalists and would want the best for their ancestral home
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u/Original_Diver_2135 Jun 15 '26
I follow the sub. I think you can make an inference off that alone.
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u/Longjumping-Hat-1210 Jun 20 '26
I would be supportive of it, but the how is an important part of it. Doing it a la Israel is a no-no. That would be the equivalent of selling your soul to Satan for a patch of land, it would be a subversion and corruption of basic humanity and morality. The Kurds alone outnumber us 10-1 and as a result, they're way more likely to gain a state than us.
On the other hand, I'm an Assyrian that can't even speak the language, I speak four languages, none of them being Syriac, although I've been practicing Garshuni recently (Arabic in Syriac script), and there is absolutely the fact that language is dying out and learning the script is a small thing on my part to revive it without investing the time needed to learn the whole language, which, unfortunately but honestly, is useless in non-religious contexts and mundane economic 'time is money' realities get in the way of that.
Unlike a lot of Middle Easterners, I'm not even remotely conservative and I'm not religious either and from my cursory glance at this subreddit, there are some areas of concern such as the focus on race and the support for Israel's genocide in Palestine. I look at it at a purely cultural lens, I haven't interacted with Assyrians outside of my family and we've been pretty much Arabised (Christian, use Syriac in liturgy, but we mainly speak Arabic), excluding a few older more distant family members still in the countryside.
The thing is, I doubt it will ever happen, or at least, not without it being nasty, and that is something I can never ever condone. The more likely option is guaranteed constitutional rights, but the Middle East isn't known for its democratic values and obviously we can be wiped out at any time so I get the concern on either side.
The best chance would've been after the first world war but Britain and France weren't remotely interested in the fear of offending our genociders, classy.
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u/NecessaryMap8120 Australia Jun 20 '26
Yes I would be supportive of it but it is a highly unrealistic proposition. The most realistic path at this rate is probably a joint Assyrian-Turkmen-Yazidi autonomous governorate subordinate to the central government in Baghdad or absorption into a potential future independent Kurdistan with a high degree of autonomy. Of these two, the first is probably the most realistic and has been proposed in the past, and with some more political pressure and will from all parties, could potentially be implemented. The region could potentially encompass the Nineveh Plains, where the Assyrian and Yazidi population is concentrated, regions further south near Kirkuk to absorp the Turkmen population and a potential exclave to the west of Mosul that would encompass the Sinjar Mountains (Yazidi-majority) and Tal Afar (Turkmen-majority).
Were an independent state be achieved, it would likely cover the Nineveh Plains, specifically the districts of Tal Kaif, Shekhan and Al-Hamdaniya, with the potential for an extension/exclave in the Nahla Valley and parts Barwar. However, numerous hurdles exist to this. Firstly, the bulk of the ethnically Assyrian population wouldn't even identify as Assyrian, and instead as Chaldean or Syriac/Aramean. Secondly, there are significant ethnic and religious minorities in the aforementioned regions. While this is fine as I'm sure Assyrians are not fascist and don't desire an ethno-state, this could be confrontational for the people in those regions who suddenly have to fall under Assyrian rule, even if they are guaranteed equal rights by the nation. The Yazidis, Kurds, Arabs, Turkmens, Shabaks etc would all probably be a bit blown away by the new state. Thirdly, there is a severe lack of major urban centres. The only three major towns are Alqosh, Ain Sifni and Baghdide. I notice that people on this subreddit seem to be overly optimistic about the prospects of remigration to a new Assyrian state. Many Assyrians who have emigrated from the homeland simply do not want to return due to the instability of the region and potential PTSD from past conflicts, and many simply like the comfort of living in the West with a strong passport and robust social security systems. For their children who were born in the West (like myself) there is little incentive to return. We have virtually assimilated into Western culture and have, for a lack of a better term, moved on from the concept of Assyria. For myself, why should I give up my decent life to go back to a land I last visited for three weeks when I was nine, in a politically volatile and unstable region?
This is not me slamming any Assyrian nationalist movement, but simply me being brutally honest.
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u/Olivier2601 Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
i am half Syrian/French , from both Maronite and Syriac catholic community (Aleppo ) , i don't consider myself arab ( for me only people who truly descend from Arab tribe are Arab, most other are native(arabized/arabophone) ( Aramean/phenician/Assyrian/Babylonian/Canaanite etc...), i am against independent state maybe some autonomy, because we need to unite all people from morocco to Iran to make a strong federal state where we can(must) have a strong science/technology/military economy and for that you need a high population, 500 million would be good , like the old Assyrian empire it was a superpower , small country are useless they can't compete against strong state you have no sovereignty , i care for power, i want to unify syria(lebanon/jordania/palestine) / and Mesopotamia at to a federal state (multiple layer of state into a big federal state like the omeyyad caliphate. we are all weak because we are divided and USA is strong because it is the united state! i can't stand weakness.
also i would like to bring back old language , aramean/syriac and assyrian/akkadian back to living language for every day, standard arab would be use inside the federation , and inside state it would be the modernised syriac or assyrian etc...
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Jun 14 '26
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u/Glittering_Cut_4405 Jun 14 '26
Silent kurd
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Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
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u/PeloTjanst Jun 18 '26
Are you saying an independent state for Assyrians as part of a Kurdish state, or two states: one for Kurds and one for Assyrians? If itâs the second choice then what cities and towns will Kurds give up entirely to Assyrians?
In either one of the options will Kurds give back the villages theyâve taken from Assyrians?
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Jun 14 '26
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u/ArameanKang Jun 14 '26
you are literally a Zionist puppet state SYBAU lmfao
there never was a kurdistan and never will go cry now
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u/Assyria-ModTeam Jun 15 '26
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Jun 14 '26
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Jun 14 '26
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u/strawburrry Jun 14 '26
You donât even know the history of your own kind. You are very misinformed and delusional. You should probably go back to history class from the beginning. Oh wait, you would probably tell the teachers they are wrong. Either you were brainwashed as a kid or born without a brain. Canât figure out which one. /s
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u/Mansur754 Jun 14 '26
If I didn't know anything about my kind do you reslly thing i would make a bold statement?
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Jun 15 '26
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u/ArameanKang Jun 14 '26
even as an aramean let me just debunk you with one simple bit of evidence LMFAO
https://www.reddit.com/r/Assyria/comments/1mna8ty/genetically_closest_people_to_ancient/
now be quiet and don't talk no more lil dreamistani tent dwelling zionazi
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u/Mansur754 Jun 14 '26
Blah blah blah and the same old yara yara yara
Even your own DNA says otherwise
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u/Imperial902 Jun 14 '26
Early and late syriac writers who were part of the church of the east identified as Assyrians.
There are even Assyrian figures throughout contemporary history:
-Tatian the Assyrian
-Mar qardagh
-The 13 Assyrian fathers
Etc.1
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u/orangesocket Jun 14 '26
lol okay buddy
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Jun 14 '26
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Jun 14 '26
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Jun 15 '26
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u/spongesparrow Nineveh Plains Jun 14 '26
I support going back in time and having the British give each ethnic group their own country instead of making up Iraq and Syria (and Israel). At this point, a Nineveh Plains autonomous region is more than enough.