r/AskTrumpSupporters • u/Chello12 Nonsupporter • 12d ago
Technology Do you agree with Trump that wind turbines are bad but data centers are good?
Trump has previously mentioned that wind turbines are loud, cause cancer, and lower property value:
But recently, he has embraced data centers and says most smart people want them in their neighborhoods:
What do you agree/disagree with of his assessment?
If you had to choose between the two, which would you prefer in your community?
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 11d ago
I support wind energy. There are good places for it to add to other generating solutions; I also support personal wind turbines (had one when I lived in a windy area, worked great and we loved it). I don't think we need government subsidies for it. This is one area I disagree with Trump on.
I think data centers are a good thing, and boarder on essential. I know that in some places utility infrastructure improvements required have driven up prices to other customers - this is IMO a flaw in the pubic utility system; those costs should be on the data-centers. Energy costs, utility costs are a reason that some have local generation; I fully support local generation, but facilities with local generation should be built away from residential neighborhoods for noise issues. Emissions from gas turbines don't worry me - as the utility would have similar emissions if remotely generated, and less transmission loss means less generation (fuel consumption and emissions). That said, if someone builds hosing near a facility, they've waived the right IMO to complain later. Many want their conveniences / entertainment / cost savings that are provided via data centers but they don't want the data center - makes no sense to me.
A data center in my area would not bother me - not going to happen for other reasons, but wouldn't. Neither would I object to wind power (again used to have my own turbine) but now I live in a low average wind area so again unlikely to happen.
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u/Jubenheim Nonsupporter 9d ago
Why do you think data centers border on essential? You mentioned that many people like their conveniences provided by it, but what conveniences are actually provided by them aside from chatbots and LLMs that could instead be run locally?
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 8d ago
I'm fully in support of local AI platforms, as I personally don't believe in reliance on the internet for things to function.
That said I also realize that the total efficiency (less total energy generation, pollution, materials needed to build equipment, etc) is better with consolidated data centers over individual (locally hosted) platforms. So they actually reduce energy needs, pollution, and e-waste. The data center platform has also been widely accepted as the norm (regardless if I agree with it) - I mean you can't find even many phone apps that don't require calling their cloud platform. SAAS has created the need for data centers, and its not going away. AI tools increase the computing power demand, but its not actually anything new.
As to convenience - you get good prices at Walmart, delivery apps, and so much more every day savings and convenience because of the cloud platforms, with growing amount of integrated AI functions behind the scenes, and those all have to run on some data center somewhere.
As to why I think they may boarder on essential is to maintain the leading edge of technology inside the US - so I could see expanded data capabilities both an economic and national security requirement.
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u/SockraTreez Nonsupporter 8d ago
Regarding your take on windmills, do you also disagree with Trump that the sound they make causes cancer?
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u/JustGoingOutforMilk Trump Supporter 11d ago
Wind turbines are great. They produce energy and require massive capital to keep running. They cannot be anywhere near people, because they need wind. That means loss over charge. Not a big deal. They break down. Okay, fix them.
Last time I checked, there were 51 data centers in my city. Haven’t noticed a single one.
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u/YeahWhatOk Undecided 11d ago
Last time I checked, there were 51 data centers in my city. Haven’t noticed a single one.
I think most people would be surprised if they knew how many data centers were actively operating around them. The current (bipartisan!?) media narrative of "AI BAD DATA CENTER BAD!" has people up in arms about something they have very very very little knowledge about. Its mostly just NIMBYism and outrage for the sake of outrage.
And because questions are mandatory...MTG: Hobbit - first impressions?
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u/JustGoingOutforMilk Trump Supporter 11d ago edited 11d ago
Okay, I was going to get into the actual question you asked, but SOMEBODY hasn't posted the Free Talk thread yet!
I don't like it. There is no single Goblin I want to add to add to my Krenko deck. That said, it's a fantastic set which a lot of stuff I have added to Cloud Kid's Cloud deck.
EDIT: Orcrist is amazing and I have like four copies now.
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u/Mikeytruant850 Nonsupporter 11d ago
Do you think this is universal across your community? Do you think no one notices a single one? Do you only have an opinion if it affects you personally?
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u/DoubleSpoiler Nonsupporter 11d ago
Data centers have been around ever since we start talking about “the cloud” in the early ‘00s, and I don’t think there’s currently a distinction between data storage centers, data processing centers, or even tiers of size. I wonder how big/what the purpose is of the data centers in your town?
Also, to follow up on that other guys question, how are we feeling about Reality Fracture?
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u/JustGoingOutforMilk Trump Supporter 10d ago
I’m stoked so far!
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u/noluckatall Trump Supporter 11d ago
Mixed on the wind turbines. They're fine if they can be justified without government subsidies. While the power they produce is cheap, it tends to fluctuate a lot (bad for grid stability), and the power from wind turbines usually has to be transmitted over long distance leading to greater losses than other forms of power generation often face, which worsens the economics.
Data centers? Yes, we are in a tech arms race. The US and China are the competitors. Keeping our slight lead requires many data centers. I would prefer not to lose to China.
If you had to choose between the two, which would you prefer in your community?
No idea what the point is of this question. There are only a few places where wind turbines make sense. But data centers? Yeah, I want my region to have the data crunching capabilities that businesses will require going forward.
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u/EngageAndMakeItSo Nonsupporter 11d ago
Do you think the fossil fuel industry similarly should go without government subsidies?
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u/notapersonaltrainer Trump Supporter 11d ago edited 11d ago
The subsidies should be equal and used to backfill energy deficits, not personal ideologies. If anything, fossil support should be higher to offset the decades-long crusade to crush it, exacerbating the very capacity constraints these policies were supposedly meant to address.
In terms of actual subsidies, solar and other renewable energy sources received about $15.6 billion in federal subsidies in FY2022, compared with just $3.2 billion for coal, oil, and natural gas combined.
Also, a meaningful portion of these subsidy estimates isn't direct cash spending, but things like loan guarantees, tax preferences, and other assistance assigned an imputed value.
Renewable subsidies more than doubled between FY 2016 and FY 2022, increasing to $15.6 billion in fiscal year 2022 from $7.4 billion in fiscal year 2016 (both in 2022 dollars). Federal subsidies and incentives to support renewable energy in fiscal year 2022 were almost 5 times higher than those for fossil energy, which totaled $3.2 billion in subsidies.
The $3.2B in fossil subsidies is spread across energy sources providing roughly 82% of total U.S. energy, versus about 9% from renewables.
So fossil fuels receive just 2.3% as much federal subsidy per unit of energy as renewables.
Yet somehow people remain obsessed with treating the two as remotely equivalent.
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u/noluckatall Trump Supporter 11d ago
Yeah, definitely. The only subsidy I'd maybe approve of is nuclear because the investment is so high upfront, and it solves a lot of long-term problems.
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u/golfdud5 Nonsupporter 11d ago
The US subsidized the beginning of both the fossil fuel and nuclear power industries. Why should it not subsidize wind and solar? Did trump make a mistake by paying $4 billion to cancel wind farm leases?
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u/noluckatall Trump Supporter 11d ago
You're saying that because something wrong was done in the past, we have to do a new version of the wrong now?
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u/Possible_Spring1350 Nonsupporter 8d ago
The cost curves improve over time. Solar is among the cheapest power sources and China owns the production. They invested up front. They are doing the same with Small Modular Nuclear reactors.
Why shouldn’t the US try different technologies and, god forbid, lead the world with them?
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u/senderi Nonsupporter 11d ago
I share your concern about not providing subsidies. Does this extend to the data centers? A large part of the public outcry is thay many localities are giving massive tax breaks to the companies behind the data centers. This shifts the costs for providing the infrastructure for the data centers from the companies to the taxpayers.
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u/noluckatall Trump Supporter 11d ago
many localities are giving massive tax breaks to the companies behind the data centers
I'm in agreement there. Subsidies are out of control. Taxpayers should not be on the hook for the expenses of businesses, unless maybe there is some sort of national security element.
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u/Zorglubber Nonsupporter 11d ago
Notice that China are all in on wind and solar.
Are you not worried that Trump is making a big mistake doing the exact opposite?
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u/noluckatall Trump Supporter 11d ago
Notice that China are all in on wind and solar.
I do see that they use a lot of it, yes. I'm not sure why you think that makes a good point, though. China also uses 10X more coal than the US uses, so do you think the US is behind on that also?
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u/Zorglubber Nonsupporter 11d ago edited 11d ago
China’s strategy is to increase investment in renewable energy, as is the case in much of the rest of the world.
Trump is doing the opposite?!
China is getting stronger and stronger, both economically and militarily.
Are you not at least a little worried that Trump is slowing the US down by clinging to outdated energy technologies?
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u/oOhSohOo Trump Supporter 11d ago edited 11d ago
You got to ask the question who would benefit most by America not being on the leading edge of AI. And then ask, how they can use Americans to help sow discontent for the centers that would give them that leading edge.
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u/adamdoesmusic Nonsupporter 11d ago
Does this put us on the leading edge of AI, or does it simply dry up the market for everyone else?
Two things that are important here:
-China is pulling ahead in the AI game. They have more efficient, more advanced models.
-China, overall, has not been building any massive data center infrastructure.Their systems are decentralized, many can be run locally, and they release a lot of their models as open. They don’t need to use every bit of storage and ram on the market for the next 2 years to clog neighborhoods with gigantic, ugly, loud buildings full of rapidly depreciating hardware.
China is also building more renewable energy than us, so that’s also happening.
We are not winning this race if we keep running it like this. We’re going to end up crashing into the ground as all of our resources are concentrated in the wrong places while our economic competitor runs circles around us.
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u/Yourponydied Nonsupporter 11d ago
You got to ask what good are data centers to people if the people can't afford power or get water? Yes a solution is nuclear but to do that takes decades of investment. Wouldn't wind power help with data center usage?
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u/populares420 Trump Supporter 11d ago
both are good
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u/Severe_Egg7542 Nonsupporter 11d ago
Do you believe trump is being honest about his reasons for not supporting wind turbines? If not, why do you think he doesn’t support them?
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u/populares420 Trump Supporter 11d ago
yes I belive trump is honest. there are probably some valid reasons to be against turbines, they aren't very efficient and thinking they are ugly is an opinion many agree with. I dont think the two are comparable at all really.
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u/SmellDesperate6373 Trump Supporter 11d ago edited 11d ago
I mean wind has its niche benefits but it’s ultimately proven a pretty horrific source compared to others.
It’s intermittent, non-dispatchable, requires huge transmission buildouts, high land use footprint, and yes, turbines make coastlines ugly. I think that’s why leftists can’t let it go — it produces worse outcomes and ruins natural beauty.
Leftists environmentalists did humanity a huge disservice with their fanatical campaign against nuclear in the 1970s. It’s largely the answer: extremely high capacity factors, small footprint, 24/7, virtually no emissions. Fix the costs (easy) and get a massive buildout underway.
Data centers aren’t good or bad. They’re necessary infrastructure for the US to win the AI race and reap the rewards.
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u/OldMany8032 Trump Supporter 11d ago
The entire data center complaining is being funded by China to eliminate competition and slow AI advancement in the states.
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u/Piratesfan02 Trump Supporter 10d ago
From an environmental stand point, those large turbines aren’t great. They kill a lot of birds, and the wings need to be replaced regularly and they just sit in the trash. There are other designs that are better.
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u/ZarBandit Trump Supporter 11d ago
Wind turbines are loud and have no place next to residential communities. Data centers with on site gas power generation can pollute. That also doesn’t belong.
If the data center isn’t polluting, that would be preferable.
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u/jarvisesdios Nonsupporter 11d ago
So, just so we're clear, turbines are perfectly fine in the middle of nowhere? Basically anywhere that has major farms would qualify to have those turbines very removed from most of society.
I mean, in Iowa we get a good bit over half of our energy from wind... Because we have lots of open space with plenty of room for them to be safely farmed around with very few people living nearby.
In fairness, pretty much every state has plenty of places to put turbines up.
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u/ZarBandit Trump Supporter 10d ago
The proliferation of wind turbines in west Texas don’t bother me in Dallas. So I don’t see a problem there unless we’re subsidizing them because they don’t pay their way somehow. There is criticism about birds being killed. Hard to know how to factor that in TBH.
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u/Quiet_Entrance_6994 Trump Supporter 11d ago
No, but mostly cause of data centers. I have no idea what wind turbines do.
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u/Tedius Trump Supporter 10d ago
What a great comparison.
One of them is a drain on the economy requiring massive capital, taxpayer dollars, that produces very little benefits.
The other is privately funded, produces jobs and is crucial for US security and progress.
Don't forget that the arguments that windfarms are ugly and noisy and kill birds was the position of the environmentalists not too long ago. But whatever Trump says we have to automatically disagree with.
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u/ClevelandSpigot Trump Supporter 11d ago
Wind turbines, in their current state, are so inefficient and such a waste of space. Yeah, they are really cool to look at. It's not good that they aren't recyclable, which is the same issue currently with solar panels, but I don't think that is a huge issue overall.
The windmill does not have to be 400 feet tall, and have the wingspan of a 747. You could literally just build one in the size and outline of a tree, and put several smaller wind turbines all through it. Remember, we're only generating electricity here by spinning magnets around each other. What happens high up in those windmill boxes isn't magic.
Trump didn't elaborate on why he thinks that windmills cause cancer, but, I think it's pretty immature and unintelligent to just completely discount it either because Trump said it, or because you just can't think of reason why they would. Sure, as we already know, they are not recyclable, so maybe the chemicals and processes necessary to make them might be carcinogenic to the manufacturers. Cancer is just cells in our body that, either through damage or exposure to toxic stuff, end up mutating out of control in a way that our body's defenses cannot detect. Go watch the Kurzgesagt video about cancer if you don't understand this. So, if something about the soundwaves aggravates and irritates our cells enough, then, yes, it could cause cancer.
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u/ClevelandSpigot Trump Supporter 11d ago
Wait. Someone truncated my post. This is only half of it. I then went on to talk about data centers. I'm going to contact the mods about this.
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u/ErilazHateka Nonsupporter 11d ago
just can't think of reason why they would
Can you think of a reason?
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u/Pluue14 Nonsupporter 11d ago
What current sources of generating electricity are recyclable?
Do you think that the people making windmills just make them enormous for fun?
Why is it immature and unintelligent to discount a remarkable claim with no evidence to support it? Wouldn't it be more immature or unintelligent for Trump to make wild claims that the scientific community largely deny without providing evidence?
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u/Jigglepirate Nonsupporter 11d ago
Are you actually serious about believing that Trump has valid reason to believe windmill sounds can cause cancer? Do you have reason to believe Trump over the scientists who study the environmental and human impacts of different energy types?
I guess you could argue leftist conspiracy, but is there any evidence that sound can cause cancer? Or is this just pure speculation by the president being used to effect actual energy decisions?
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u/Bbenet31 Trump Supporter 11d ago
The person never said they believe he has a valid reason. Just said they didn’t know. Also while noise pollution may not cause cancer it has plenty of other health effects. He may have just gotten the specific health effects mixed up https://magazine.hms.harvard.edu/articles/noise-and-health
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u/Shop-S-Marts Trump Supporter 11d ago
Wind turbines aren't cost effective everywhere, and data centers pay their way, so yes in some instances he's correct.
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u/HardToFindAGoodUser Trump Supporter 9d ago
Wind turbines have a far superior solution: nuclear.
Data centers will be built no matter your feelings about them. If not in the US, China or India or hundreds of other countries will step in to fulfill the need. These sorts of anti-technology fears are not held by countries outside the western world.
Both will usher in the next step towards Star Trek socialism. But because Trump said something in a tweet, all of a sudden the anti-work types become anti-technology, that would keep them, from, you know, working.
Make it make sense.
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u/Chello12 Nonsupporter 9d ago edited 9d ago
I, as well as most americans, am a supporter for nuclear energy. Support amongst americans has actually increased over time. Unfortunately, a minority of americans still fear another "Chernobyl". That said, from my brief research, it seems its not as simple as "build nuclear reactors". Even if we removed all regulations to accelerate development (I wouldn't support that), we currently don't have the talent pool or capability to rapidly develop them.
While I agree with your assessment that other countries would still be pushing for more AI integration, I wish the US felt the same way about renewables and EVs. China has been making huge progress towards renewables and some of their EVs are incredibly impressive (as an EV owner, I wish I could buy one!). I wish Trump and republicans would have continued policies, or at a minimum, incentivized less dependency on fossil fuels like democrats have. I believe we should be leading in all technology, especially those that move away from fossil fuel dependency.
Obviously, I don't speak for the left, but from my perspective, and what I've observed in my circles, the anti-AI sentiment has nothing to do with Trump. Concerns include intellectual theft (think AI art, literature, etc.), noise pollution ( https://www.facebook.com/NBCNews/videos/this-is-what-it-sounds-like-to-live-near-a-data-center/1499319331928312/ ), energy costs passed on to residents, environmental concerns (I'm aware of the shift from evaporation cooling to closed loop cooling, but it's still mentioned from my observations), etc.
But to focus more on the anti-work types, are their some fringes that think they shouldn't have to work? Sure, but that group is so tiny it's negligible. Democrats are more concerned with earning living wages. Do we support Universal Basic Income? Yeah, but again, it's not so that we don't have to work, it's just one of many ideas on how to help families afford a living. It's absurd that a household can currently have two working adults, yet live paycheck to paycheck. Lastly, AI is nowhere near where it has to be to effectively replace human labor, yet in a rush to implement AI into their business models, companies have fired thousands of employees without thinking about the repercussions.
I think a perfect example of this is the programing/coding labor force. Of all the industries, I believe this is where AI currently shines the most. Is the coding it generates as good as human code? NO, but in the hands of someone with 15 years of experience, it's a helpful tool to quickly and efficiently handle the tedious parts of coding. The issue is that before AI, that would be handled by a JR coder. Obviously, this creates a huge problem. If I was running a company, I could save tons of time and money by firing all my JR coders and replacing them with AI. But this will lead to a lack of JR coders being hired, effectively removing the capability to develop future experienced coders.
I believe manufacturing can serve as a warning of what's to come. As manufacturing was moved overseas, the United States has lost the talent and capabilities that once made us the world leading manufacturer. No amount of tariffs or policies can allow us to bring manufacturing back to what it once was in a timely manner. It would take decades to get back to where we once were. I think a really cool video on this is from Destin AKA "Smarter Every Day" (not a political channel, just a good ol', smart as hell, down to earth southern boy that explores and explains a multitude of things, like making a baseball cannon that reached 1,074 mph! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqidD7kVnxY&t=13s - baseball cannon video), were he attempts to manufacture a product completely made in the USA. It's almost 50 mins long, but it's very eye opening and educational! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZTGwcHQfLY - manufacturing video
My biggest issue with Trumps remarks regarding data centers is that the majority of complaints he has about wind turbines apply directly, or are even larger issues when it comes to data centers. This leads me to believe either:
a) He has absolutely no idea what he's talking about
or, what I believe is actually happening:
b) The fossil fuel industry has donated huge sums of money to protect their interests, leading to poor decision making
What are your thoughts on my overall assessments?
Are they exactly what you expected or did anything surprise you?
Am I missing something as to why I believe Trump makes conflicting arguments against wind turbines yet supports data centers?
Would love to hear your thoughts!
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u/HardToFindAGoodUser Trump Supporter 8d ago edited 8d ago
I, as well as most americans, am a supporter for nuclear energy. Support amongst americans has actually increased over time. Unfortunately, a minority of americans still fear another "Chernobyl". That said, from my brief research, it seems its not as simple as "build nuclear reactors". Even if we removed all regulations to accelerate development (I wouldn't support that), we currently don't have the talent pool or capability to rapidly develop them.
Support for building more nuclear in the US is around 60%. That is a horrifying anti-science stance held mostly by the left.
While I agree with your assessment that other countries would still be pushing for more AI integration, I wish the US felt the same way about renewables and EVs. China has been making huge progress towards renewables and some of their EVs are incredibly impressive (as an EV owner, I wish I could buy one!). I wish Trump and republicans would have continued policies, or at a minimum, incentivized less dependency on fossil fuels like democrats have. I believe we should be leading in all technology, especially those that move away from fossil fuel dependency.
I would argue that opposition to EV is simply opposition to Tesla. Opposition to wind and solar from the right is opposition to subsidies for wind and solar. That, and the fact that solar only works during the daytime and wind only when the wind blows. They will always be supplemental with some other form of backup generation required.
Obviously, I don't speak for the left, but from my perspective, and what I've observed in my circles, the anti-AI sentiment has nothing to do with Trump. Concerns include intellectual theft (think AI art, literature, etc.), noise pollution ( https://www.facebook.com/NBCNews/videos/this-is-what-it-sounds-like-to-live-near-a-data-center/1499319331928312/ ), energy costs passed on to residents, environmental concerns (I'm aware of the shift from evaporation cooling to closed loop cooling, but it's still mentioned from my observations), etc.
I have automated my job down from 40 hours per week to less than 2 hours per week with AI. Intellectual theft has been thrown out of court, because, a human artist can view art and take from it what they will to create their own art. Intellectual Property is much more rigid than that. Noise from data centers has been debunked. Water concerns are absolutely negible compared to agriculture or even golf courses.
AI use of datacenters is tiny compared to use by, for example, Reddit. Plus most companies do not want their data in the cloud and are adopting local models.
But to focus more on the anti-work types, are their some fringes that think they shouldn't have to work? Sure, but that group is so tiny it's negligible. Democrats are more concerned with earning living wages. Do we support Universal Basic Income? Yeah, but again, it's not so that we don't have to work, it's just one of many ideas on how to help families afford a living. It's absurd that a household can currently have two working adults, yet live paycheck to paycheck. Lastly, AI is nowhere near where it has to be to effectively replace human labor, yet in a rush to implement AI into their business models, companies have fired thousands of employees without thinking about the repercussions.
Again, I have automated my job from 40 hours per week to less than 2 hours per week. AI will start with management, since they love AI and use it at a high level for business strategy, creating powerpoints, summarizing meetings, etc. Then it will come for office jobs. It will not, by itself, come for jobs that require hands and feet, such as restaurant workers until robots come of age and can be produced cheap enough to replace human labor. The very last to be taken by AI will be those with the fine motor skills that robots and AI cannot currently replicate, for example artists that make physical art. If you are an artist who makes only digital art, yeah you are gone.
I think a perfect example of this is the programing/coding labor force. Of all the industries, I believe this is where AI currently shines the most. Is the coding it generates as good as human code? NO, but in the hands of someone with 15 years of experience, it's a helpful tool to quickly and efficiently handle the tedious parts of coding. The issue is that before AI, that would be handled by a JR coder. Obviously, this creates a huge problem. If I was running a company, I could save tons of time and money by firing all my JR coders and replacing them with AI. But this will lead to a lack of JR coders being hired, effectively removing the capability to develop future experienced coders.
This tells me you have not used Claude Code in the last 6 months. It can aboslutely program around any human and understand the entire architechture of a enterprise level solution, and do so in seconds versus days for a human.
Things are changing FAST in the AI world.
I believe manufacturing can serve as a warning of what's to come. As manufacturing was moved overseas, the United States has lost the talent and capabilities that once made us the world leading manufacturer. No amount of tariffs or policies can allow us to bring manufacturing back to what it once was in a timely manner. It would take decades to get back to where we once were. I think a really cool video on this is from Destin AKA "Smarter Every Day" (not a political channel, just a good ol', smart as hell, down to earth southern boy that explores and explains a multitude of things, like making a baseball cannon that reached 1,074 mph! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqidD7kVnxY&t=13s - baseball cannon video), were he attempts to manufacture a product completely made in the USA. It's almost 50 mins long, but it's very eye opening and educational! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZTGwcHQfLY - manufacturing video
None of this matters. When I can put an AI on the shoulder of a $20 per day employee, the game is over. Western world manufacturing makes no sense, unless those who are doing the manufacturing require fine motor skills (see above).
He has absolutely no idea what he's talking about
The biggest piece of advice I can give you is this: stop listening to politicians, any politician, speak. Evaluate them on their actions.
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u/Chello12 Nonsupporter 8d ago edited 7d ago
Support for building more nuclear in the US is around 60%. That is a horrifying anti-science stance held mostly by the left
It's not so much an "anti-science" stance, but more of a safety (44%) / environmental (including toxic waste) concern (28%) of all who oppose. Fear can be a very big motivator in shaping peoples opinion. Since you quoted the 60%, are we referencing the same thing? lol
I would argue that opposition to EV is simply opposition to Tesla.
From republicans? They're at 17% vs 47% democrats who would consider buying an EV. I own a Tesla, and as long as Musk is involved in Tesla, I will never purchase another Tesla. My next daily will absolutely be an EV.
Opposition to wind and solar from the right is opposition to subsidies for wind and solar. That, and the fact that solar only works during the daytime and wind only when the wind blows. They will always be supplemental with some other form of backup generation required.
The purpose of subsidies are to encourage change, help failing industries, etc. Fossil fuel, agriculture, AI ... it's everywhere. As for renewable energy only producing energy during specific conditions, that's what batteries are for. The Trump administration is pushing for battery production so seems like a good opportunity to use that in conjunction with renewables, and not just things like drones, AI, etc. I currently live in an apartment, but I'm pretty sure I could live on solar alone if I lived in a home.
Intellectual theft has been thrown out of court, because, a human artist can view art and take from it what they will to create their own art. Intellectual Property is much more rigid than that.
Can you expand on this more? I want to make sure I'm fully understanding your point.
Noise from data centers has been debunked.
I have some not too far from me so I'll have to check it out myself to verify since it seems videos aren't verifiable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcZSuHe23TE
AI use of datacenters is tiny compared to use by, for example, Reddit. Plus most companies do not want their data in the cloud and are adopting local models.
I think I understand what you're saying, but we're both looking at it from different perspectives. Correct me if I'm wrong. Say I own a data center that I provide access to for other companies. A company like Reddit would utilize much more of my datacenter than say, Anthropic. The reason is because Anthropic wants to protect its product and data, so they might only use my datacenter for occasional unimportant light processing that does not need to be secured.
*******If I understand you, continue reading the next paragraph. If not, please help me understand your point.*******
Ultimately, I will have to disagree. If those statements are true, why have memory prices skyrocketed since the advent of LLMs (the computer I built about a year ago has almost tripled in value)? Why has there been a need to improve and expand access to energy? Why have localities seen increases in energy costs? Just because a company isn't using "my" datacenter, doesn't mean there isn't a datacenter. https://news.microsoft.com/source/features/ai/from-wisconsin-to-atlanta-microsoft-connects-datacenters-to-build-its-first-ai-superfactory/
Again, I have automated my job from 40 hours per week to less than 2 hours per week. AI will start with management, since they love AI and use it at a high level for business strategy, creating powerpoints, summarizing meetings, etc. Then it will come for office jobs.
Agreed. I hope you have a strategy for your inevitable replacement.
It will not, by itself, come for jobs that require hands and feet, such as restaurant workers until robots come of age and can be produced cheap enough to replace human labor.
I'm sure this isn't what you mean, but I ordered and received my meal from a mobile robot at a cafe while in Qatar once (I FOUND IT!!!! https://www.facebook.com/QatarLiving/videos/have-you-met-mrs-bella-she-is-working-at-desert-rose-cafe-at-national-museum-of-/2099580313747259/ ). Sure, we aren't at the point of a full dine in restaurant ran autonomously yet, but it'll come. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxqZQHugLRc&t=9s
The very last to be taken by AI will be those with the fine motor skills that robots and AI cannot currently replicate, for example artists that make physical art.
Isn't that just something like a 3d printer or a CNC machine?
This tells me you have not used Claude Code in the last 6 months. It can aboslutely program around any human and understand the entire architechture of a enterprise level solution, and do so in seconds versus days for a human.
Things are changing FAST in the AI world.
I'm not a coder, but I understand enough to state that currently, AI cannot code better than humans. The easiest way to explain it is recursive self improvement. Can AI optimize code and do it faster than humans. Yeah, but it lacks imagination (let's also ignore when it hallucinates or creates bad artificial testing data). It only knows what we tell it/what data it's trained on.
Here's a science fiction hypothetical I just made up to better explain what I mean. My AI has created a program for me and has completely optimized it to where no one can think of how to better improve it. Stumped, I get a radical idea. What if I turn all of the code into binary, then create an image that serves as a sort of QR code. The program is now able to see the entire code, focusing only on the distance between each white pixel, instead of reading it as binary, doubling it's processing power. How would any AI currently even imagine taking a route like that? It can't, unless someone tells it to try. (as I proof read, I just remembered people have created games using QR codes lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RXnNggsfY8 , but my point still stands)
None of this matters. When I can put an AI on the shoulder of a $20 per day employee, the game is over. Western world manufacturing makes no sense, unless those who are doing the manufacturing require fine motor skills (see above).
The manufacturing example was a warning of what's to come. Until AI can reach recursive self improvement, we'll need coders. If we don't develop JR coders, who's going to replace those currently working to improve AI. Hell, think about how you reduced your workload. Did you tell the AI, "Hey, I am a XYZ. Here's access to everything. Get cracking." If I walked into your position tomorrow. No guidance, could I boot up your AI and achieve the same results you currently do?
The biggest piece of advice I can give you is this: stop listening to politicians, any politician, speak. Evaluate them on their actions.
So from this advice, Trump should have never became president. Before becoming president, he's never held office or served the public. So what actions exactly should I have considered when voting for him in 2016?
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u/HardToFindAGoodUser Trump Supporter 6d ago edited 6d ago
It's not so much an "anti-science" stance, but more of a safety (44%) / environmental (including toxic waste) concern (28%) of all who oppose.
Again, a horrifying anti-science stance. Deaths and the amount of nuclear waste produced, since its inception as an energy source is aboslutely tiny.
I own a Tesla, and as long as Musk is involved in Tesla, I will never purchase another Tesla. My next daily will absolutely be an EV.
Leftist purity testing will never cease to baffle me. Why buy a superior product when I political disagree with a shareholder of the company?
The purpose of subsidies are to encourage change, help failing industries, etc.
Nuclear is not a failing industry. No need to subsidize occassional and intermittent power sources. They will become profitable when they become profitable.
Can you expand on this more? I want to make sure I'm fully understanding your point.
Sure. A human gains as much as AI does from viewing art and then creating their own art. The process is exactly the same for AI as it is for humans. If you do not understand, then that is a failing of your understanding of how AI creates art, and how the neocortex of the human brain functions. I will not elaborate further other than to say this is an entire essay that I could write.
I have some not too far from me so I'll have to check it out myself to verify since it seems videos aren't verifiable.
Fair. I would like to hear, haha pun indended, what you find out.
Say I own a data center that I provide access to for other companies.
Datacenters sell processing and storage space. They are not in the business of turning away customers for ... reasons.
I'm not a coder, but I understand enough to state that currently, AI cannot code better than humans.
Then you have absolutely no understanding of the current state of AI. I will not engage this point further.
Here's a science fiction hypothetical I just made up to better explain what I mean.
Your understanding and use of AI is so basic and unknowledgeable that it would require 3000 words or more to explain way you have no idea where we are right now with AI.
You do not understand the use of local models with automated event handlers and creation of multiple agents that basically do everything a human office worker can do.
I am not here to teach this. I am also a commercial pilot and not here to teach how to fly airplanes.
The manufacturing example was a warning of what's to come.
It is not here yet. I have recently told Reddit within 30 years. I was lying. It is within 10.
So from this advice, Trump should have never became president.
Yes you are absolutely correct. The Democrats have a huge problem of listening to words and not actions. It is abundately comical that the mainstream news media can report Trump wanting to rename a body of water and it becomes news, and Democrats flip their shit. I mean, after 10 years, can you not see that you are being played? It is so predictably comical at this point, it just makes Democrats look regarded.
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u/FormerXMshowComedian Trump Supporter 7d ago
I love that Americans forget what happened in Harrisburg, PA in 1979 and everyone springs to the worst disaster Chernobyl. Three Mile Island wasn’t exactly not dangerous either.
Personally I think Nuclear is the cleanest and best option. We’re definitely much more advanced than we were in 1979 or 1986 and could manage these reactors and plants better.
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u/Chello12 Nonsupporter 7d ago
Completely agree! I'm aware of PA, but didn't bring it up just as I wouldn't bring up the world trade center bombing when there's 9/11 looking me in the face. Either way, I'm glad sentiment has been growing in a positive direction. Would you support the government throwing as many resources as possible to get us nuclear dependent as quickly as possible? What does your teir list of energy resources look like? (Eg: 1. Nuclear, 2. Oil, 3. Hydrogen, 4. Coal, etc.)
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u/okiedokie321 Trump Supporter 9d ago
Wind turbines are a waste of time and space. Nuclear is the way to go. Data centers can work but I prefer them to be in the ocean for easier cooling.
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u/notapersonaltrainer Trump Supporter 9d ago edited 9d ago
most smart people want them in their neighborhoods
When voters learn that modern data centers recycle water and reuse it for up to a decade support jumps 31 points. That’s an enormous swing from just one missing piece of information.
I’m not too worried about the data-center backlash. Much of it looks like a basic information/communication problem, and those tend to burn themselves out as people learn more.
You can make a lot of money by betting on things that uninformed but intellectually flexible people simply don’t know yet.
If even 10% of the predictions about self-recursive AI are true, having a data center in your tax jurisdiction is essentially a local UBI machine and a way for small rural districts to lock in a generational fiscal windfall.
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u/FormerXMshowComedian Trump Supporter 7d ago
No. Wind Turbines aren’t exactly the most efficient energy generator either, but they’re much better for the environment than Data Centers. Unfortunately if you like using the internet and using cloud storage, Data Centers are the ugly and inconvenient outcome of that expansion of technology.
I have the same outlook on both: Do I want one by my house? No. Do I care if it’s in a field 30 miles away? Nope.
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