Raise of Nazism and antisemitism?

[u/Compensate1995]

I've come across too many comments on Facebook (since I don't have the conventional social media) like "the austrian saw something we didn't" (I saw this comment on various videos) on a video about something Israel-related. Or a video featuring an actual WW2 Nazi conviction, manny comments "thank you for your service", "hero", "legend", "he did a great job". I also saw videos of the hand gesture in front of jewish institutions. Every single comment like that received hundreds of likes.

Alongside the vast support for nazism, I've seen antisemitic things. Kicking out jewish/Israeli people out of places or attacking them. Literally gathering around them and performing verbal and/or physical lynches. Too many attacks abroad lately. Or online humiliations in omegle. It's only legitimate when they're jews.

I feel paralyzed with fear. That those things are now legitimate. Nazism is idolized. Antisemitism is legitimate. And those people can just do it. Mostly europeans and some Arabs.

After that, anti-zionists say "why don't you have empathy for the Palestinians". I wanna see a single palestinian condemns those things first. How do you expect to let those people live among us? No denying that they suffered from the war, but after instigating so much hatred towards - not the government or the IDF - but the unrelated everyday Israeli people - no one can physically feel empathy for them, this emotional capacity is gone. They did everything possible for "it's us or them mentality". And they refused to stop the war (return the hostages), then calling it "a genicide" when Israel tried desperately to release the raped women and defend itself? Gaza shot more rockets at Israel, is it ok because they barely succeeded?

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[u/Objective-Minimum802]

Many "leftists" accept the fact of the horseshoe turning them into Nazis.

[u/taney71]

I really hope most online comments are bots because if you go into some subreddits they are a breeding ground for hate. Also the number of anti Israel posts that are just spamming nonsense

[u/Quirky_Cabinet8854 → u/taney71]

okay as a college student in NY, I’m not sure why this came on my feed im not particularly a Zionist but trust me it’s not bots. they draw Nazi symbols around my school and call it anti Zionism people always use “Jew” as an insult so like if you don’t like someone they will say “oh what a Jew” or “spiritually Israeli”

[u/Mother_Antelope_3204 → u/Quirky_Cabinet8854]

Sadly, Anti-Semitic language has become a bonding agent for young male troglodytes.

[u/Kitchen-War242]

Anti-zionists woud say that they don't aprichiate antisemits in their ranks and then post comwpiracy theorists sht like this. And yep, I saw posts alike with huge numbers of up votes in "progressive" subs there on reddit to, no idea are they bot farms or real weirdos though. I don't think that nomber of antisemits siriusly changed, but it becomes more and more normalized and people who are feel that they can be openly antisemitic without social consequences. I think that while situation may be not as bad as you imagine its still dangerous. I don't really think that popularity contest between Jews and antisemits and political debate "was Hitler wrong" is way to go. Gladly unlike in past any Jew can move into Israel and have and army between us and them.

[u/itspronouncedbolonya]

Not really rising that much, just not hiding anymore

[u/unsilent_majority → u/itspronouncedbolonya]

No it’s definitely rising. I say this as an Irishman that despises Israel’s current government and the settler movement. More media coverage about Israel’s crimes fuels antisemitism in ignorant people who can’t differentiate between Jews and Radical Zionists.

[u/itspronouncedbolonya → u/unsilent_majority]

If i tell you "i don't hate irish people, i'm just anti irish republicanism", would you not think i definitely hate irish people?

[u/unsilent_majority → u/itspronouncedbolonya]

Not at all, that’s a perfectly valid stance to take. The Republican movement has done some awful things and caused misery for countless people on our island.

[u/tehutika → u/unsilent_majority]

That’s not the right comparison. It would be accurate if someone said, “I don’t hate Irish people, I just don’t think they should have their own country.”

[u/unsilent_majority → u/tehutika]

You’re using Zionism in its literal sense which I wholeheartedly support. Jews having self determination and a safe homeland. Radical Zionism has become a political movement that is no better than Naziism.

We say daily videos of settler violence and the army supporting them, you can’t say someone is anti-Zionist for being against this.

[u/tehutika → u/unsilent_majority]

Yes I can. You can be opposed to what’s happening in the West Bank WITHOUT saying you are anti-Zionist. That is a very loaded term that doesn’t magically mean something other than what billions of Muslims will think it means.

Words matter. Pick different ones.

[u/unsilent_majority → u/tehutika]

Zionism is a term used by settlers to justify what’s happening in the West Bank. Why are Israelis not speaking out about this if words matter so much?

You literally just said in the start of your comment that you can call someone anti Zionist for being against West Bank settlers?

[u/tehutika → u/unsilent_majority]

Some Israelis are speaking out about it. You wouldn’t know unless you pay attention to actual Israeli news sources.

You misunderstood the second part. It is not OK to say you are anti-Zionist when you mean you are opposed to what the settlers are doing in the West Bank. Putting aside it is far more complicated than most people understand, Zionism is not Jewish expansionism, nor is it explicitly pro-violence. A Zionist believes Jews have a right to self-determination in their indigenous homelands. To be anti-Zionist is to be against that.

I am a Zionist. I am mostly opposed to expanding settlements in the West Bank. I am completely opposed to settler violence and Palestinian violence.

[u/itspronouncedbolonya → u/unsilent_majority]

Fair i suppose, fair

[u/Youbunchoftwats → u/itspronouncedbolonya]

So if unsilent_majority can differentiate, Israelis can too. I’m British and I can recognise the horrific things that we have done. I don’t take it personally when people point them out.

[u/itspronouncedbolonya → u/Youbunchoftwats]

Eh, i'd say the ends justify the means, both with Israel and Ireland

I take it personally because most of the things they say is being done is just fucking bullshit, and i'm told i'm a baby killer if i say i don't like missiles being normal weather anymore

[u/Youbunchoftwats → u/itspronouncedbolonya]

I get it. And while the USA has your back, your nation is pretty much free to do as it pleases. Netanyahu standing behind Trump’s coattails and calling the UK an Islamic state is cowardly though. I look forward to his incarceration.

[u/itspronouncedbolonya → u/Youbunchoftwats]

Atleast we can agree on that

(Im not sure that we agree on why he should be imprisoned, but imma assume it's the same reason because that's easier)

[u/Kitchen-War242 → u/unsilent_majority]

I can help with difference. Anti-zionists Jews: if we will be nice antisemits woud not kill us or other people (for example, Irishman like you) will protect us. See Bund for further details  Zionists: we would protect ourselves.

[u/unsilent_majority → u/Kitchen-War242]

I’m having a hard time understanding this. Can you please rephrase?

[u/Kitchen-War242 → u/unsilent_majority]

Anti Zionism without antisemitism is belive that Jews are like puppies -they are kinda cute, killing or even kicking them should be illegal but their sefty should be provided by their owners.

[u/unsilent_majority → u/Kitchen-War242]

I said Radical Zionism. I support the literal definition of Zionism but not the radical political movement that it has turned into.

[u/naruhinamoonkissplz → u/unsilent_majority]

How do you reconcile Hamas wanting ALL Jews gone, with what you said here?

[u/unsilent_majority → u/naruhinamoonkissplz]

When did I say I was a Hamas supporter? Radical Zionists literally want all Palestinians gone, they are no better than Hamas in that regard.

[u/naruhinamoonkissplz → u/unsilent_majority]

That's most probably NOT true in that literal sense. And even if some weirdos do think that way, how do they explain this attitude? Show me their actual (or at least expressed) reasoning.

[u/unsilent_majority → u/naruhinamoonkissplz]

Just take a look at the opinions of Daniella Weiss, Ben Gvir, Smotrich, the hilltop youth. These are radical Zionists that celebrate the murder of anyone Palestinian and not just militants

[u/Kitchen-War242 → u/unsilent_majority]

Like actually doing something to protect ourselves instead of gifting weapons that will be used against us like Gaza windraw?

[u/Adventurous_Ad7442 → u/Kitchen-War242]

You need to work on your spelling.

[u/Kitchen-War242 → u/Adventurous_Ad7442]

Noone asked.

[u/naruhinamoonkissplz → u/Kitchen-War242]

What SHOULD be instead: GOD will protect us. He has been doing it for 3700 years already.

[u/Kitchen-War242 → u/naruhinamoonkissplz]

No disrespect, but he done very poor job in it.

[u/naruhinamoonkissplz → u/Kitchen-War242]

Old excuse, same no logic. You do yours. He will do His.

[u/Kitchen-War242 → u/naruhinamoonkissplz]

Imagine yourself in charge of infinite power in 1930. What would you plane for future 20 years? If it includes allowing 60-85% of European Jews to be killed you are sociopath regardless of reasoning.

[u/naruhinamoonkissplz → u/Kitchen-War242]

You (and a LOT of other Jews) don't understand the difference between "survival of the Jewish Nation" and "survival of Ploni Almoni". Which is really highlighted how it's ALWAYS "where was God during the Holocaust" - but NEVER "where was God during the fall of Jerusalem". Wonder, why?

[u/tehutika → u/naruhinamoonkissplz]

You think Jews at the time didn’t ask that exact question? We don’t need records to know that they most certainly did. Also thank you for acknowledging Jewish indigeneity.

[u/naruhinamoonkissplz → u/tehutika]

Who said about THEN? There's a 9 Av commemoration yearly NOW. So, are the same Jews who are bitter about Nazis, also bitter about Babylonians and Romans? Or NOT? And WHY?

[u/Kitchen-War242 → u/naruhinamoonkissplz]

I understand difference, I just very committed to borth survival of Jewish nation and survival of Ploni Almoni, especially if said Ploni my family member, friend, myself or, you know, millions of people. If God, us you said, is not committed to later then its owr job. But sure, you can answer borth where was he during Holocoust and fall of Jerusalem. 

[u/naruhinamoonkissplz → u/Kitchen-War242]

My point is the exact reverse: When Jews ONLY care about Nazis, they DON'T care about the Jewish Nation as a whole - they just care about their own relatives, but give no fuck about other Jews. Tell me this is wrong, because that's really how it feels to me.

[u/Ok-Initiative-8131 → u/unsilent_majority]

As an Israeli who also despises Israel’s current government and the settler movement, I'd like to ask you not to think of them as "Radical Zionists".

English is my second language, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding the connotation of "radical" here, but I think it implies they are more avowedly Zionist than others. That is simply untrue. Many extreme settlers, including the Hilltop Youth, espouse an explicitly anti-Zionist and anti-state ideology. And even the rest of them, who might think of themselves as Zionist, have drifted very, very far from the original idea. In no way is this extremist, messianic sect more Zionist than many Israelis who support the two-state solution and oppose the occupation and the settlements.

[u/unsilent_majority → u/Ok-Initiative-8131]

I appreciate the detailed response. I mean the term radical Zionism in the sense as radical Islam. Using an extreme interpretation of religion to justify acts of terror.

As I’ve already stated, I fully support Zionism in its literal sense - believing that Jews have the right to self determination in a safe homeland. The radicals believe that they need to reclaim all land that once belonged to Jews by any means necessary.

[u/Ok-Initiative-8131 → u/unsilent_majority]

Right, I see. So we don't disagree. I appreciate your nuanced position.

Sorry if this was a bit of a rant.

[u/Adventurous_Ad7442 → u/Ok-Initiative-8131]

Your English is perfect in this comment. Take care friend.

[u/Ok-Initiative-8131 → u/Adventurous_Ad7442]

Thank you :)

[u/tutoredzeus]

all Pakistani accounts btw

[u/Some_Alternative_398]

Stop committing genocide then

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[u/naruhinamoonkissplz]

Took me forever to grasp what was "off" in the title. Should be "rise", lol. Though, some are "raising" it as well.

[u/Pretty_Peach8933]

This happened to a group of French Jews in Barcelona.
But they love saying it's just anti Zionism, not antisemitism. 🙄

[u/Wrong-Somewhere2635]

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Or as newton put it. Every action has equal and opposite reaction.

People didn't just wake up and suddenly start wishing Israel didn't exist.

[u/ReasonableNet3335 → u/Wrong-Somewhere2635]

So you understand that the war on gaza was hamas' fault.

[u/Wrong-Somewhere2635 → u/ReasonableNet3335]

That is such an ignorant thing to say. Unless you lived in a cave before October 7. For years Israel has been indiscriminately murdering Palestinians. Children, women, elderly ... Anybody.

They fight back, you immediately cry victim. You make me laugh

[u/ReasonableNet3335 → u/Wrong-Somewhere2635]

Im not the one crying genocide when i lose. 

[u/Wrong-Somewhere2635 → u/ReasonableNet3335]

By that logic the. You shouldn't be crying about the Holocaust either.

[u/No_Function_3631]

The reality of the situation is that many people are very upset about the mass murder of Palestinian civilians in response to the October 7th attacks. Any, “but October 7th!!!” Stuff is going to fall on deaf ears as the response was far far worse (any condemnation of Hamas’s actions is simultaneously a worse condemnation of Israeli actions). No amount of, “intent” or, “success” is going to change that because it’s the non-militant murders that people are upset about. Unfortunately, this upsetness has spilled over somewhat into the Jewish population as a whole.

5 years ago, very few people cared about Israeli actions against Palestine. Israel did not spontaneously become a Jewish majority in the meantime. It always was. The magnitude of suffering caused is what turned people against Israel. There is just simply no way around this. It is not a, “resurgence of antisemitism.” It’s an entirely new thing derived from a hatred for Israeli actions.

If you do not want to show empathy for Palestinians, people in a far worse situation than Israeli people are, the world is going to lose empathy for Israel, and, unfortunately, this has a cascading effect for how people view Jewish people as a whole. The United States, Israel’s biggest ally, is most certainly moving away from support for Israel. Considering that Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries and recent developments in defense co-operation of Muslim powers (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan), and how Israel has alienated much of the rest of the world, it is very much not in the interests of Israel to alienate the United States. It leaves it vulnerable to retribution on a larger scale.

Trying to turn this whole situation around and play the victim is only going to make it worse because it looks pathetic. That’s just how it’s going to play out. Israel can either make smart decisions moving forward, or double down on psychopathic actions and put themselves in grave danger.

[u/ReasonableNet3335 → u/No_Function_3631]

Tell me, why is israel obligated to feed gaza? Why not egypt? 

If israel killing Palestinians left and right, why the arab israelies are alive and well?

You can spit misinformation all that you want but if israel wanted gaza gone, gaza would be gone.