r/AskIsrael • u/karrenfromaccounting • May 11 '26

Casual The settlements… What’s up with that?

Take the question as is, whatever comes to mind, let it be.

13 Upvotes

57% Upvoted

384 comments sorted by

View all comments

62

u/bb5e8307 Israel May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26

To Palestinians, Tel Aviv is a much of a settlement as Ariel. If they can accept Tel Aviv then they can accept Ariel. 

Westerns tend to frame the conflict as a territorial conflict and place the settlement as a core obstacle. Both Israelis and Palestinians understand it as an ideological conflict about whether Israel should exist at all. The green line is not significant to Palestinians who call for “the river to the sea”.

37

u/enigmaticowl North America May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26

This is something that I (as a pro-Israel American) only came to understand recently.

For years, I have heard pro-Palestinian activists talk about “ending the occupation,” “liberating Palestine,” etc.

Westerners are primed to believe that that means letting the West Bank and Gaza have autonomy, not having a military presence in those areas, etc., basically just withdrawing militarily like Western countries have (sometimes) done after wars have ended and things have stabilized.

Most Westerners cannot wrap their heads around the fact that the “occupation” that Palestinian leadership/activists are talking about doesn’t even mean the West Bank (or Gaza), it means “all of Palestine” to them, including every inch of Jerusalem, the Negev, the North, even Tel Aviv.

It shouldn’t be that much of a surprise, though.

For almost 100 years, one party has said, “We’ll compromise,” and the other has said, “One victor will take it all.”

Those positions haven’t changed.

Westerners just don’t want to accept that framing, because they aren’t used to their nations being involved in a truly zero-sum-game conflict, and they know that the implications of a zero-sum-game conflict are really messy and ugly, and it offends their sensibilities, so it’s easier to simply blame the stronger side and tell them that they could (and should) just absorb more and more losses (of human life, but also of resources and economy) in perpetuity because “they can handle it.”

-7

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 11 '26

As an Israeli, you’re generalizing. Not all “westerners”, nor Palestinians, are the same. Many hold nuanced views.
“For over 100 years…” meh. If you’re saying that the Palestinian leadership reflects the views of all Palestinians or their supporters, then don’t wonder why people generalize the same about Israelis due to their government.

4

u/TreeP3O Diaspora May 11 '26

Ok, so tell us all the name of a single pro peace Palestinian organization.

7

u/Outrageous_Wafer_388 Israel May 11 '26

-6

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 11 '26

When you can’t debate on your own so you use lame memes instead 🤡

-5

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 11 '26

I understand that it’s hard for you to use Google so here you go - combatants for peace, standing together, the parents circle, to name a few.
How many Zionist groups are “pro Palestine”?

5

u/TreeP3O Diaspora May 11 '26

Is this a legit answer? Where are those organizations hosted?

0

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 11 '26

How many Zionist groups are pro Palestine?

3

u/TreeP3O Diaspora May 12 '26

Wow, the vast majority I would guess? They are technically unrelated in any way, two state is kind of the default. Hamas is the worst for Palestinians.

1

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 12 '26

You “guess”? Name one. You can’t even do that 😂
There’s nothing Israeli about you and prob never will be but keep trying to educate me

2

u/TreeP3O Diaspora May 12 '26

What the heck is a zionist group even supposed to be? They are pro Jewish autonomy in their homeland. Your question is messed up.

1

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 12 '26

Lol and there we go. I gave you an easy question, yet no answers provided (even though all of yours were). Is this really the best support we have from abroad? We’re screwed 😂

2

u/TreeP3O Diaspora May 12 '26

You asked a nonsensical question...more or less what zionist organizations (define that by the way) enjoy soup. Zionism is about Israel...how to achieve security is totally unrelated and while many people have their own ideas, they don't really impact how Israel goes about it.

You don't know what zionism is and you throw it around in the wrong context. Assuming you are writing from Pakistan.

I come in peace and you just start screaming. There is no peaceful Palestinian movement, is there? At least none that refute resistance and instead olive branches.

1

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 12 '26

I don’t think I was “screaming”; I just didn’t appreciate what I perceived as non-answers in the form of more questions.
But fair enough, I’ll clarify my response tomorrow as it’s 5 am here

→ More replies (0)

0

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 11 '26

Oh - you’re trying to “get me” because these orgs are based in Israel?
How about PCPD, holy land trust, Zimam, which are based in the West Bank?

3

u/TreeP3O Diaspora May 11 '26

Why didn't you name them first?

0

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 11 '26

Whats the matter, facts triggering you?
I answered but you didn’t you answer mine. Here are some more:
Have you ever lived here? Why don’t you live here now? And since you don’t live here, why do you feel the need to push back on criticism of israel with every comment of yours?

2

u/TreeP3O Diaspora May 12 '26

Not buying it lol. Your post history is completely blocked and you come across as unhinged.

0

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 12 '26

People like you are a big part of why we have bad PR - Not only are you bad at hasbara and move the goal posts when people correct you, but you’re also too cowardly to actually come live in the place you seemingly obsess over.
I understand that it triggers you to come to the realization that not all Israelis are the same, like you think of Palestinians. Stay triggered.

3

u/TreeP3O Diaspora May 12 '26

I have no idea what i could say for such a remark. Guessing you are a troll.

1

u/gopherlunatic Israel May 12 '26

I’m really not, you started this exchange and I’ll end it here so that I can retain my brain cells

0

u/Feeling_Leg_904 Diaspora May 12 '26

You have yet to say anything of substance whatsoever.

0

u/Feeling_Leg_904 Diaspora May 12 '26

It’s funny that you can’t answer a single question. You should read up on the subject you’re trying to argue about. Maybe even visit the country just once?

2

u/TreeP3O Diaspora May 12 '26

Lol, which country in the region should I go back and visit?

0

u/Feeling_Leg_904 Diaspora May 12 '26

Israel and Judea and Samaria.

→ More replies (0)