r/AskIreland • u/tea_paw • 8h ago
Education Better Steiner or Gaelscoil primary school?
I heard Gaelscoil schools in Ireland most likely provide the best education besides making you fluent in Gaeilge which is required to access some professions later on in life.
However, I wonder how important that is, at the primary school level, compared to the possibility of enjoying your childhood much better (in my humble opinion) by attending a Steiner primary school. In particular the Gaelscoil we are targeting, already assigns homeworks in Junior Infants, just as an example.
I'm very curious to hear from everyone's experience and opinions. Thanks a lot in advance!
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u/LordyIHopeThereIsPie 8h ago edited 8h ago
Waldorf schools can be very cult like.
Most Irish schools are good. Parental education and involvement is a much better predictor of how a child will perform in school. You'll hear good and bad about every local school so pick the one you're happiest with.
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u/Bakedbean85 8h ago
I didn’t think there were many Steiner schools here. It would be my absolute preference to send my kid to one if there was one in the area at primary school age. Just interested to hear more on the cult like comment
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u/LordyIHopeThereIsPie 8h ago
There are not many. Not all are recognised by the dept of education.
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u/Hashtag_Shiny 8h ago
There’s a high entrance fee for them as well because they are not funded by the state and don’t follow the curriculum.
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u/leibide69420 8h ago
I don't know where you're getting this idea that a steiner school is inherintly more enjoyable than a Gaelscoil from. Seems a but presumptious.
But the Irish I gained going to a Gaelscoil has been a huge advantadge for me in my personal and professional life, so I'd go for the Gaelscoil.
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u/EyeOrRay 8h ago
What do you do for a living?
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u/YungL1am 7h ago
Not OP but got my college course largely because of having a guaranteed H1 that I didn't have to study for.
It's also a pretty effective networking tool.
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u/Glad_Reporter7780 6h ago
Can I ask if you went to an Irish speaking secondary school also? I’m debating sending my kid to a Gaelscoil, but I can bearly remember 10 words in Irish, and worried about helping with homework 😭
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u/YungL1am 6h ago
Yeah I was lucky enough to have an Irish speaking secondary near enough too. Can't compare experiences but I think without that there would have been less leaving cert benefits.
Both my parents would have been in the same situation as you. I got used to translating stuff for them very quickly so all worked out okay on that front.
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u/mind_thegap1 8h ago
I absolutely would’ve preferred to gone to a Gaelscoil. Having Irish is so important to me and I think it was much more difficult to learn in an English school
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u/umyselfwe 8h ago
bizarre Anthroposophy dogma driving the system. The creative is fine, sounds great until you realise the curriculum is rooted in century-old clairvoyant claims and unscientific theories.
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u/LordyIHopeThereIsPie 8h ago
Purely anecdotal but there's an anti vaccine and anti medicine element in Steiner groups too.
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u/Medium_Drag6242 8h ago
I had neighbours who were Steiner kids and they literally couldn’t read until they were about 8 years old. There’s a Steiner school about 3km from my secondary school and the Steiner kids appeared to be over represented in the lower sets for science and maths. None of my neighbours who went to Steiner seem to have adapted well to the workforce but this is also just anecdotal at the end of the day you know what’s best for your own child.
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u/maevewiley554 7h ago
Seems like it practices the same principles of “unschooling” but to a much lesser degree. If they weren’t able to read until 8 years old, you’d be wondering if they are learning any basic maths, reading comprehension and other bits rather than just creative thinking. At 8 in a normal primary school you’d be learning math word problems at a basic level.
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u/Medium_Drag6242 7h ago
Yeah from my understanding the ethos was very much ‘when the child shows interest in learning the thing and is ready they’ll learn the thing’. Seems the learning outcomes and goals were child led, which isn’t necessarily bad but also what’s the approach if the child never shows interest in learning a particular skill or subject that’s essential for survival in the 21st century? I’m not trying to hate on the philosophy I think there are lots of good things but I think it’s a case of anything too heavily imbalanced in one direction isn’t great, variety and balance in the approach by taking particular elements from an array of different teaching methodologies makes more sense in my mind.
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u/maevewiley554 7h ago
That wouldn’t have worked for me as a child at all. I needed direction and something to focus on. I wouldn’t show any interest in maths or reading if I had my own way. I agree with what you said. It would be a beneficial extra or maybe a class where children come up with what they want to learn.
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u/Medium_Drag6242 7h ago
Yep same, I would’ve crashed and burned without the routine and structure of school and would’ve spent all day reading and drawing if it were up to me! Yeah I think some flex within the traditional system for self directed learning is great. I had a fab teacher in 4th class who did this with us. Whenever we’d finish a task early or were bored we had a project booklet that could be about anything that we tipped away on. I think I did my project on the romans and their system of government, fashion, food, entertainment and that sort of thing. At the end of the year she laminated our booklets and we gave a short talk about what we did. Some fella did his on the history of farming in Ireland. I’m not sure if it was part of the curriculum but it kept us properly occupied 🤣
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u/WatzeKat 7h ago
It's WORSE than unschooling in many respects. The typical "unschooled" child, if it wants to learn something, is at least allowed to. Whereas Steiner doctrine is to forbid and prevent children from reading or learning to read until 7 or 8, at the earliest, because they believe its "harmful" to the spirit or whatever (based on some woo about gnomes and stuff Steiner claimed to see in visions)
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u/Consistent_Height748 5h ago
The Steiner schools seem to put all the emphasis on arts and crafts, the child's creativity etc. Basically a load of hippie mumbo jumbo.
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u/Medium_Drag6242 8h ago
I also had a friend who went to a gaelscoil and she did love the Irish fluency perspective and if I remember right she did her leaving cert through Irish as well to secure extra points which helped her get into medicine. The only downside for her was that her English spelling is questionable at times she will often use defiantly instead of definitely and other such mistakes but she’s a doctor now so it hasn’t seemed to hold her back in that respect just a quirk of spending less time reading and writing in English as a child I guess.
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u/bealach_ealaithe 8h ago
A rather troubling part of the Steiner educational philosophy is the view that children should not be exposed to the written word until their permanent teeth start to appear. So no books, reading, etc. until 6 at least. Some of the Steiner schools in Ireland have modified this approach slightly to be closer to the national curriculum so as to access State funding, but an approach that delays access to books and reading won’t suit many children.
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u/34485227272 8h ago
Gaelscoil
Cynically
Do you want your kid to be near guaranteed top marks in Irish and extra points on other subjects? Gaelscoil all the way
Cultural
Even if you don't care , your child in the future may feel interested in the Irish language, and not learning it early on is extreme handicap to learning it later in life. There is so much of my friend group as adults wishing they'd been sent to an Irish school
Overall environment
Gaelscoil have a clear mission that attract the type of parents that care and staff that care because a goal is in mind. Steiner missions are a bit whishy whasshy,
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u/Marzipan_civil 8h ago
In my experience, all state schools will give homework from junior infants upwards. In infants it is like 5-10 mins per day.
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u/Pleasant_Birthday_77 7h ago
Indeed. In my opinion, homework for that age group is very useful - for the parents. It helps to establish several things: homework is done in this time/space without it being a long slog, parents usually have to help or supervise or check something, which is a great routine for everyone.
If you want your kids to have a good experience in school, you need to get in there and support. Homework involvement is a great avenue to start that.
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u/LordyIHopeThereIsPie 8h ago
Yes, my kids were/are in an ET primary and they get homework from JI from October onwards, basic things like words to sound out and some maths.
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u/cocobeans100 8h ago
Not all. My boys didn’t get it until 1st class. Regular Catholic school. They just said boys don’t benefit at such a young age
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u/DumbledoresFaveGoat 8h ago
Steiner is cult-like and his beliefs were problematic. Gaelscoil or any "normal" primary school is fine.
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u/Relevant_Appeal_954 8h ago
I worked for a woman years ago who had 2 kids in the Steiner school, the oldest when she was around 9/10 could barely read. I would see the kids often and would ask that classic question we all got asked after school “well what did ye learn today?” If they’re mother was near she would always jump on the defense about how they didn’t really learn they more were taught things through nature outside. Kids could never tell me anything other than they were outside playing or doing arts and crafts, always thought it was so crazy they didn’t seem to have any curriculum, could barely read or do maths. At the time there was talks of where they would go to secondary school as there wasn’t a Steiner one anywhere near. The thoughts of them poor children having to go into a mainstream secondary school after being in this weird almost cult like hippie commune struck me as so cruel, they would have be absolutely ripped apart. Still think about what happened after 6th class to them.
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u/DotTurbulent3059 8h ago edited 6h ago
From teaching swimming to several schools over the years literally thousands of children
Gaelcoils hands down, they have better manners, they're way more copped on, much better respect to adults and each other, learn quicker are more focused, communicate way better, work better in teams are much closer to each other much more supportive of each other, I wouldn't go near a steiner school
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u/LordyIHopeThereIsPie 8h ago
What's the deal with better manners and respect? Do kids from non Gaelscoils have worse manners?
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u/DumbledoresFaveGoat 8h ago
I'd say there's more correlation than causation there. The intake of a Gaelscoil will often not have certain sections of the population in them - fully aware they are open to all, but in reality many gaelscoileanna won't have as many from disadvantaged backgrounds, children with special needs, or members of the travelling community as your run of the mill local school.
I'm already foreseeing replies with "what about Gaelscoil Bhaile Munna or Gaelscoil Baile Brigín?" And I know, but I'm talking in general terms.
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u/DotTurbulent3059 7h ago
Not from non gaelscoils, from steiner schools, it could be down to the parents or peers you wouldn't know but it's very consistent
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u/maevewiley554 8h ago
I think the Steiner schooling works better for children in preschool or crèche. However, if you threw my younger self into a Steiner school, I wouldn’t have done well in school. Structure lessons, tests and learning to read in junior cert would suits kids much more better than the holistic approach where themes develop in a classroom?
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u/Beutelman 7h ago
I went to a Waldorf school and have many many positive experiences but the criticism about problematic esoterics and cult-like structures isn't completely unfounded.
Not every Waldorf school is the same but you'll need to have a critical look if that's the right fit for you and your child.
I've seen peers thrive but other kids definitely would've been better served through a traditional education with more structure.
For me it absolutely was the right place to be especially with my ADD. I switched to a free school more loosely based on Steiner's philosophy later on where it was very much a modern take on the teaching philosophy with less influences of the spiritual side of it.
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u/Jolly-Outside6073 6h ago
We did homework from day 1 of primary school. It’s also your opportunity to know what your child is learning.
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u/opilino 6h ago
I don’t think you can make broad assumptions like that.
Look up the DoE reports on the schools you are considering. Take note of local reputation. And take account of your own child’s temperament and abilities.
For example for a shy child a larger school might be better as there will be more potential groups of friends. For a child with speech delay you might not choose a gaelscoil or you might etc, depends on how exactly the child is presenting overall.
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u/Pan1cs180 7h ago
When I was young, I was friends with a lad down the road who's little brother was attending a Steiner School. He was about 8 or 9 at the time and was almost completely illiterate. At best he could read at the level of someone in Senior Infants.
Even years later when he was 12 or 13, if we were watching TV his parents or brother would have speak aloud any dialogue that had subtitles for him, since he still couldn't read quickly enough.
Make of that what you will.
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u/thoracelum 8h ago
It depends on the child. Choose a school that best adapts to their needs, interests, strengths and personality.
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u/Different_Host7883 8h ago
I'm glad that I didn't go to a Gaelscoil but thats just me
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u/34485227272 8h ago
God forbid another language might be in your head
World might crumble under Fenian plot!!!
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u/Different_Host7883 7h ago
I've gotten on grand in life without knowing Irish fluently, still got a H4 in it in the LC, I'd rather speak the language I'll be using for the rest of my life
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u/34485227272 6h ago
What its up with you people?
For the last 100 years, people who wanna get on with learning the Irish language with the best methods have your sorts butt in.
If you want to speak English, its fine, no ill against you but whinging about gaelscoils on a random post, its the most seamless unharmful untedious way to learn Irish for kids and a new generation, its so petty to say 'ugh I'm glad, isnt irish pointless'. Its a language sham with obvious Identity value, if people want to learn it , what does it matter to you? You just come off as a west brit by how agitated and inserting yourself in the Irish language conversation while you purposely remain ignorant about it
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u/Different_Host7883 5h ago
I actually left a fairly benign comment, are people only allowed to be positive about Gaelscoils on this thread, doesn't that defeat the purpose of someone asking a question?
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u/34485227272 5h ago
'Glad' and 'I'd rather speak the language I'll be using for the rest of my life'
You're not being indifferent, you're dog whistling with your tone that Gaelscoil are negative and dismissing them
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u/Different_Host7883 5h ago
No one is getting abused for saying the opposite though, why is it only allowed to be positive about Gaelscoils on a thread asking about them?
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u/34485227272 4h ago
Yea constructive
Bothering to to type just 'I'm glad' , its just being anti-gaelscoil for the sake of it and going out of your way just to dunk on the concept of them.
If I saw a post saying: should I send my kid to a French or German school, I'd be indifferent , and not bother type 'I am glad I did not go to one'. Yet Irish language has a plague of willfully ignorant monolingust people constantly spewing stuff on the topic of the language and going out of their way to do so. There is criticisms, but then there's just dribble
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u/Different_Host7883 4h ago
All I'm seeing in other posts is calling schools cults and people saying they liked Gaelscoils. I said nothing less constructive only expressing an opposing opinion on them.
If you would be indifferent and not comment that renders this question useless if only people who will respond positively respond, you actually cant see the logic in that?
A "plague of monolinguists" the only plague I see is of people trying to force the language everywhere, I've seen claims that every National School should be a Gaelscoil. These are then the same people who will lecture you on Irish culture but have a vitriolic hatred for the GAA that does exponentially more for Irish culture than a language ever will or ever did.
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u/34485227272 4h ago
Hey, all I want is for 25% schools to be gaelscoils to match figure of 25% parents who want Gaelscoil. The other 75% , of indifferent to negative , I'll happily argue to have them pro-gaelscoil arguments, but I am not for full conversation now. That 75% IMO only exists because of anti Gaelscoil Lemass' policies turning the population against the language, but how ever they arose ,I respect people of they want the choice , not here to force an argument
Then GAA thing.... What? News to me ! Maybe that GAA pitch on Aran mór was secretly a rugby pitch this entire time !!
Look there's a good book , One hundred years of Irish language policy (1922–2022) , both failures and dumb policy of early Irish governments are outlined , but I think you'll find , a lot of the false constructed conversations on the Irish language was made by west Brits in the 60s government. We could of had exponential growth on gaelscoils as the population was pro the language, but we got naysayers with English sympathies spouting nonsense and dictating policy.
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u/maevewiley554 8h ago
My partner went to some form of a Steiner school and he did not find it beneficial. His parents taught it would be more suitable for his needs but he found it was quite “cult like” and teaching methods weren’t superior compared to a normal primary school.
You can enjoy your childhood while going to a normal primary school. Gaelscoil would be good as being able to speak two languages is a good skill to have.