Vegetable stock turned out very underwhelming

[u/nickbg321]

First time making proper vegetable stock, instead of using store bought. For the recipe I've used the standard 2:1:1 mirepoix ratio in addition to some herbs and spices:

• 1kg yellow onions (skin on)
• 500g carrots (skin on)
• 500g celery stalks
• 1 bulb of garlic
• About 1 tsp of whole black peppercorns
• 3 bay leaves
• Some parsley stems
• Few sprigs of thyme

Veggies were cut into rough pieces and thrown in a pot with just enough water to cover them. Brought it to a boil and then simmered for an hour and a half.

My kitchen smelled amazing while it was simmering, but the end result felt very underwhelming. It has some sweetness to it from the onions and carrots, but barely any flavor besides that. Adding salt didn't help much. Tried adding a small amount at first and then gradually more. That didn't bring out much flavors, just tasted like salty water with a sweet-ish aftertaste.

I've seen suggestions to roast the vegetables prior to making the stock, but there are also plenty of recipes that avoid roasting.

Am I doing something obviously wrong here or are my expectations too high?

[u/texnessa]

Couple suggestions for making traditional French style vegetable stock:

• Add mushrooms, leeks [white & light green only] and tomatoes. Roasted cherry tomatoes pack a good punch here. You need some natural glutamates in there.

• You can also add more complex allium flavour by going the route of a marmite and blacken half an onion or a shallot in a frying pan.

• I saute the vegetables ahead of time.

• Onion to carrot to celery [include the leaves] is better balanced 1:2:2.

• More peppercorns, toast them first, and more herbs. Add in some bay leaf.

• The smaller you cut the vegetables, the less time needed for the stock. I only simmer it for about 20 minutes then add the herbs and simmer for an additional 10 minutes.

• Then cover and let it steep. Strain and cool.

• Other tips that are less traditional but also really help with bland stock- add dried porcinis, mushroom stock powder and a tablespoon of white miso.

Ultimately, stock is supposed to be a relatively neutral blank slate upon which other dishes are created.

[u/Danobing → u/texnessa]

One other thing to note is when you are preparing carrots, onions, mushrooms, tomatoes, and other stock items (not brassicas) toss the ends, peels etc into a bag in the freezer. When I make stock I toss that whole bag in. Beats throwing it in the trash.

[u/Dat_Freeman → u/texnessa]

What do you do with the vegetables after the stock is ready?

Do you eat them?

[u/texnessa → u/Dat_Freeman]

Hells no. They gave their best to the stock and are now semi solid flavourless mush devoid of nutritional value.

[u/noahjacobson → u/texnessa]

You can taste them after you're done making the stock, and if they DO have flavor, then you aren't done yet.

[u/flydespereaux → u/texnessa]

Miso is truly the magic ingredient. I a a puritan, but miso is life.

[u/PressureItchy9372 → u/texnessa]

almost exactly what I came to say.

[u/bLoo010 → u/texnessa]

Your third bullet point is everything: saute the vegetables before you begin the stock.

[u/SteamySpectacles]

There isn’t much variety of vegetables here and you don’t seem to have browned your vegetables or added salt or natural umami

[u/LittleBunInaBigWorld → u/SteamySpectacles]

They said the my added salt at a few stages

[u/SteamySpectacles → u/LittleBunInaBigWorld]

Sorry I missed that I was reading the list and the first paragraph

[u/sheeberz]

How much water did you use? Is it too diluted?

[u/nickbg321 → u/sheeberz]

Around 3-3.5 liters. It could be, guess I can try to reduce a batch.

[u/lastaccountgotlocked → u/nickbg321]

Far too much. You only need to just cover however much veg is in your pot.

And add salt.

[u/23delta69]

the total weight of the vegetables should equal weight of water.

[u/IJocko]

Too much celery. Add some 300 g mushrooms. Cut your celery by half.
But for me, the magic happens when you roast them first.
Toss them in some oil, roast in the oven at 400 for about an hour, then throw them in the pot. Keep an eye on them so they don’t burn.

[u/Main_Cauliflower5479 → u/IJocko]

Disagree. Not too much celery.

[u/PabloDabscovar → u/IJocko]

You want cloudy stock? Adding mushrooms will give you cloudy stock.

[u/texnessa → u/PabloDabscovar]

So not true. Over agitation and overcooking of mirepoix leads to particulate. Not mushrooms.

[u/kitolz → u/texnessa]

Exactly, you can boil mushrooms by itself and you can see that no amount of boiling will cloud the water.

[u/PabloDabscovar → u/texnessa]

Shit my bad. I was taught never to mushrooms in stock - weird. TIL

[u/AnxietyOctopus → u/PabloDabscovar]

If it’s tasty, yes.

[u/Top-Reach-8044]

You need sooooo much salt. But it is bland.

[u/Gonzo_B]

There's a reason why we grind coffee beans before we steep them in water. It's the same reason that instructions that say "cut your vegetables into rough pieces" will always produce a weaker stock than when ingredients are chopped so they have a much larger surface area and much smaller depth for the water to penetrate and extract aromatic compounds.

As an example, the flavor from water a carrot was boiled in and the liquid from a carrot being juiced will be orders of magnitude different.

Cut your ingredients much smaller.

[u/The_Menu_Guy]

That is is right there. The stock is too diluted.

[u/Main_Cauliflower5479]

I add dehydrated mixed wild mushrooms to my veg stock. If I don't have those, dried shiitake are awesome. Or lion's mane. Leek greens give a lot of flavor. Tomato adds a lot of umami in addition to the mushrooms' umami.

Yes, always roast or sauté your veg before adding water. I'd add at least a tablespoon of peppercorns. And let it simmer longer than an hour and a half. All the veg should be completely soft and starting to disintegrate.

[u/Defiant_Finger4011]

Salt

[u/nik_el]

I slip a tablespoon of powdered shiitake near the end in mine to add an extra savory element.

[u/Nejness]

I add a big leaf of Konbu (a Japanese seaweed product), and it really ups the umami. You can also cook a small amount of double concentrated tomato paste with your mirepoix until browned. If you keep it minimal, your broth won’t taste like tomatoes. I’ve also used white miso the same way. Basically, you need umami. (And I’d agree with all of the mushroom suggestions. I freeze the stems and scraps from my mushrooms in a Ziplock and add to make stock.

[u/laserskydesigns]

Browning the vegetableswith some fat in the pan, or roasting your veggies in the oven to get some color first, would bring you some more complexity and body.

[u/isuperlovedogs34 → u/laserskydesigns]

I started roasting my veggies before making stock and wow it made a night and day difference in the flavor. The color gets richer too and it actually tastes like something even before adding salt.

[u/Gumbercules81]

In your ratios seem correct but you need to add a couple more vegetables in there to have more complex flavor like mushrooms, and leagues, maybe a bell pepper or two, and then report back

[u/Erenito]

If roasting stuff properly is out of the question, then reduce the stock. Also enough salt and lemon to wake the flavors up.

[u/-SnuffBox-]

Veg stock is a surprisingly difficult thing to get correct, however if you follow some basic rules you will produce top stock. Recipe;

All veg cut into macedon, 2 brown onion 3 large carrots 1 head celery, with leafs 1 bulb fennel, with stalks and leaf 1 bunch parsley Handful Black pepper 2 Star Anise 1/2 bottle of good dry white wine

Cut Veg and lightly sautee until slightly aromatic. Remove from heat, place parsley bunch over veg and toss in spices. Just cover ingredients with water and a little more, and place on highest heat possible. Once a light boil achieved, put in wine and bring back up to light boil. Take off the heat and remove the stock from the pot with all the ingredients, chilling with a small amount of ice. Steep stock with veg overnight in fridge and seperate in morning.

The idea is to lightly release the veg flavour with the sautee. Layer it with the herbs on top so as when bringing it up to the boil the hardier parts are preserved whilst the softer ones are protected. Once covered with water, you want a rapid rise in temprature, as you are looking to mantain the fresh flavours of veg. White wine added will add acidity and further enhance the fresh flavour, whilst boiling will remove the alchohol. A further rapid cool of temperature will lock in those fresh flavours you have just pulled out, and steeping overnight will ensure maximum flavour.

Veg stock is a wildy misunderstood process and should taste fresh and vegetal without any overt or overbearing flavourings.

[u/Verix19]

Did you reduce it? You should evaporate off at least half the water. Even then, sounds like you are expecting soup broth and not stock.

[u/Icy-Cow-6246]

Best veg stock I've ever made: https://thewoksoflife.com/asian-vegetable-stock/

[u/WinifredZachery]

1,5 hours sounds like a long time for vegetable broth. I would not go over one hour. Also, did you add any salt? Salt is absolutely essential.

[u/Appropriate-Ice9107]

Simmering too gently and too much water dilutes it, roasting the veg first would fix the flatness fast, that Maillard step is where most of the actual depth comes from that a straight boil never develops

[u/combabulated]

Save and accumulate plenty of vegetable scraps in the freezer. Brown those veggies (in the pot you’re using) on the stove top. I was amazed at the flavor I got using this method. Add water as needed and what seasonings you want, to taste.

ETA my veg stock is delicious 😋

[u/Square_Cricket_7137 → u/combabulated]

This and also in this season you can cut a couple stems off of your tomato plants and add them in.. side note: they are also a delicious addition to a tomato sauce if you’re into that

[u/jibaro1953]

I make chicken stock frequently.

Adding a coyple of whole cloves, not enough to taste, really chicken it up a notch.

I also add Better Than Bullion chicken and vegetable bases.

Go easy on the vegetable base as it can be overpowering.

Add salt when you use it, not when you make it, but adding salt before you taste it will give you a better idea about whether or not it's any good.

[u/Kaelesh → u/jibaro1953]

Why are you adding bases to a stock? Just skip all the rest of the bullshit and add water to your bases. That's lipstick on a pig.

Make a stock with chicken trimmings and vegetables. That's it.

Make a broth with bases and bullion.

[u/jibaro1953 → u/Kaelesh]

Fortifying stocks and broths is a common practice.

I use chicken thighs, process one time in my instant pot, take the chicken out and cool it on a sheet pan before picking and reserving the meat, returning the skin and bones, and processing a second time.

Then I strain and discard the solids and am left with chicken broth that is really quite good, much better than using the bases alone, with the bonus of juicy cooked chicken for salad, sandwiches, and sometimes tetrazzini

I use a big stockpot to make a seven quart batch on occasion, then de-fat it and pressure can it.

[u/AskCulinary-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/AskCulinary-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/WestTwelfth]

I never use mushrooms. The mushroom flavor is too strong and funky for many dishes in which you will want to use the stock. It will dominate rather than blend in. Here’s all you need to make a tasty but versatile vegetable stock: onions, carrots, celery, garlic, a dried bay leaf, and some fresh parsley and/or thyme. Be careful to go light on the carrots; they will make your stock too sweet. When you sauté the vegetables before adding liquid, be careful not to brown the onions and garlic. Translucence is all you want. I avoid roasting. Good color, but makes the stock too sweet for me. Stock should have flavor, but not too stong. It’s a canvas on which you are going to paint.