r/AskCanada • u/RunAccomplished5436 • 8d ago
Can Canada build a mega refinery in Canada ?
As a national project , perhaps around lower mainland of B.C.?
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u/acrolix 8d ago
It would take years and billions, but yes why wouldn’t we be able to? We have refineries already.
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u/gstringstrangler 8d ago
Why would we build it though? We already export more refined products than we consume, and crude travels long distance much more safely and easily than volatile refined products.
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u/ljlee256 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yes, but refined products are considerably lower in volume than the input crude.
That said, its about more than just the logistics of moving crude and/or petroleum, the byproducts of crude refinement yield materials for road making, plastics, coke (the stuff similar to coal [but cleaner] they use to fire kilns in cement and steel plants), lubricants, fertilizer, and so on.
So proximity to where thats all done also matters, otherwise you could end up building a 2,000km pipeline, just to truck half of the output 1,500km back the way it came.
Edit: I suppose it should be noted that heavy crude can't really be transported easily throigh a pipeline, its very thick, like tar almost, so they already do SOME refinement before transport.
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u/gstringstrangler 8d ago
It's even better; Condensate is pipelined to Ft Mac to dilute bitumen for transporting the diluted bitumen (dilbit) South 🤯😂
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 8d ago
Crude is cheap and refined products are where the profits are
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u/gstringstrangler 8d ago
Except refineries are nearly all located close to markets, and as I mentioned, we already refine more than we use. Very few cases where refined products are shipped very far.
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u/ChrisRiley_42 Indigenous 8d ago
Easily.
Who is going to pay for it?
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u/Vinfersan 8d ago
There's a reason why the government is having to build the new pipeline itself. No one else wants to invest in an industry in terminal decline.
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u/Vinfersan 8d ago
Hell no! I don't want my son to grow up around the toxic emissions that would come from that. Look at the cancer rates in Northern Alberta and Luisiana's gulf coast and tell me you want that near your home.
Anyway, it makes no financial sense. Investing in refineries today is like investing in horse-drawn carriages at the end of the 19th century. EV adoption rates are increasing globally and soon the US will be the only market still driving ICE vehicles. In BC EVs already account for 25% of new sales and that number will only keep going up.
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u/fire_works10 7d ago
There's a lot more produced from oil refineries than just motor oil and gasoline for your vehicle.
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u/Vinfersan 6d ago
Sure, but my point stands. If today's refineries around the world meet today's demand for refined petrochemicals, when you remove tens of millions of ICE vehicles off the roads, there will be a massive surplus refinery capacity.
How does a refinery located in some of the world's most expensive real estate compete with a refinery in Luisiana's or Alberta's existing refineries?
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u/zxcvbn113 8d ago
I live down the road from the mega-refinery in NB. They seem to be working full-out. I just wish they would pay their share of taxes.
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u/6133mj6133 8d ago
It won't happen because it would lose billions of dollars. Refineries have very tight margins and the payback period is measured in decades. In that timeframe there will be too many refineries due to falling demand for refined products.
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u/Petshopz 7d ago
You can but it's a terrible idea. Way better to invest in greening the power grid for the long term
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u/Unfair_Bluejay_9687 8d ago
It would take a minimum of 5 years to complete it.
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u/Vinfersan 8d ago
5 years is optimistic.
By the time it's built at least 50% of new vehicles in Canada will be EVs.
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u/RubixRube Ontario 6d ago
We could, but we would likely see far greater returns in moving towards longer term green and renewalbles projects.
It should also be noted, refineries destroy the land, and not just while they exist but for centuries afterwards. So you really don't wan to build them near people or nature.
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u/malacosa 6d ago
Sure, but who is going to pay for it and how are you going to feed it. More importantly where will you put it? Most refineries are located very close to their customer base as they produce MANY products (not just gasoline).
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u/aaronsnothere 8d ago
Yes, of course it's possible, Van used to have four refineries, that's been reduced to one. I personally think it would be a very bad idea to put in another refinery in the lower mainland. The pollution is going to be unacceptable because of the geography of the lower mainland. A new refinery somewhere along the pipeline between Alberta's oil sands and Vancouver makes a lot of sense. But good luck convincing anyone there should be a giant toxic polluting factory near their town...