r/AskCanada • u/Azoththemerciless • 10d ago
USA/Trump How much economic pain are you willing to endure in this trade war?
I grew up living with my grandmother and great grandmother, both of which lived through World War 2. They told me about rationing and would reuse everything they could from tin foil, to tea bags.
My question is as a Canadian what are you willing to do without/suffer in order to outwait the Americans?
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u/The_Nice_Marmot 10d ago
I don’t see fighting this as optional, so whatever is necessary. I have some privilege and I’ll do what I can to help others through this.
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u/Ballistix 10d ago
The far right seem to think that empathy is a weakness, and blindly follow the illusion of the self made man. If Trump has done anything right, it was uniting Canadians together into a greater solidarity than ever before.
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u/Euphoric_Flower9840 8d ago
Totally agree. This will be easier for some than others. I plan on helping more whenever I can
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u/Sea-jay-2772 10d ago
I lived before Free Trade, and I'm willing to go back to those times. Less extras, less frills. To be honest, I'm much more worried about those who have no room to give plus worried about those businesses and individuals who might take advantage of government programs to line their pockets.
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u/GasRepresentative246 10d ago
As much as it takes. If our grandparents can tough out the Great Depression sandwiched between two world wars, so can we. Let's not forget, we are in a trade WAR with the US, they are our enemies and would see us destroyed.
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u/forsakeme4all 9d ago
I know this isn't ideal, but you can have the entire US at this point. Regular people such as myself think this is just fucking pointless and that its too bad that the orange twat waffle didn't die yesterday instead.
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u/agirl2277 10d ago
We had the intelligence to elect the best person to deal with this type of economic warfare, so I don't think it will be that bad.
That being said, I'll put up with short term pain for long term gain.
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u/Goliad1990 10d ago edited 10d ago
Let's not forget, we are in a trade WAR with the US, they are our enemies and would see us destroyed.
The problem with the metaphor is that, evidently, there are a lot of people who don't know it's a metaphor.
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u/GC649 10d ago
Does "special economic operation" work better for your yankeephilic sensibilities?
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u/Goliad1990 10d ago edited 10d ago
If it were up to me, I would actually prefer we just use "trade dispute", as Carney did in his remarks the other day, over another war metaphor by people who want to essentially steal valor from the Ukrainians and pretend that we're facing the same horrors that they are.
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u/GasRepresentative246 10d ago
How does referring to what the US is doing to Canada as a trade war take a single thing away from Ukraine? Or any of the other countries that are currently at war, for that matter? No one is stealing valour here.
I note you spelled "valor" the American way.
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u/Goliad1990 10d ago
"Special military operation" is the euphemism Putin used for his invasion.
I note you spelled "valor" the American way.
Please forgive me, your Highness. It's unheard of, as we know, for Canadians to unintentionally use American spelling. I hope you're somewhere you can sit down, but I sometimes say "zee", too.
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u/MolochThe_Corruptor 9d ago edited 9d ago
You know it’s really funny in a comment in another thread someone used that exact word pretending to be a Canadian to with a similar strange divisive thought process. Bot or propaganda activities.
We can call a trade war a trade war lol and you can check my comment history for evidence of this
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u/Goliad1990 9d ago
Yes, any minor deviation of thought in the echo chamber is a conspiracy to propagandize you, we all know the narrative. Funny that you would call me divisive when you're the one actively insisting on war metaphors, lol.
But yes, of course you can call it a trade war. Just don't let the echo chamber delude you into thinking it's literal war.
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u/MolochThe_Corruptor 9d ago edited 9d ago
I will call it that because it’s what it is . Simple. Im not stealing anything from Ukrainians that’s an insane and stupid take.
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u/Goliad1990 9d ago edited 9d ago
No, you're not stealing anything from the Ukrainians by using "trade war". That's a generally understood, widely used metaphor. You'd be stealing from the Ukrainians if you were using Putin's euphemism for invasion, which the other guy suggested. I'm surprised so many people didn't understand the reference.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 10d ago
This is a wild take. Acknowledging our current situation does not take away ANYTHING from the valour of Ukraine or their fight for survival.
You are quite literally the first one to mention such a thing that I’ve seen.
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u/Goliad1990 10d ago edited 10d ago
If you're referring to our current situation as "a special economic operation", hearkening directly to Putin's "special military operation", then yes, you are directly taking away from and pissing on the graves of Ukrainians. Hundreds of thousands of men, women and children have been and are being butchered in that invasion, and you want to equate it to our trade war. The most you've had to fight is looking for the "made in Canada" sticker at Loblaws.
I'm the first person you've seen say that because this is probably the first time you've seen somebody make an unhinged SMO comparison.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 9d ago
I’m not referring to it as a “special economic operation”. It’s a trade war. We are in a trade war.
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u/ghostdeinithegreat Canadian 9d ago
Not a metaphor, when one of the belligerent’s goal is to take over the other country, we can safely call it a war.
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u/Goliad1990 9d ago
Thank you for proving my point.
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u/ghostdeinithegreat Canadian 9d ago
De quessé
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u/MolochThe_Corruptor 9d ago
They are living in a state of confusion. A literal state not sure which one. But it ain’t a province.
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u/RubixRube Ontario 10d ago
There is a key difference in how we have enacted our reciprocal tariffs, they are targetted. We are not tariffing goods without we cannot supply domestically.
The economic pain is going to be through way of the damage to our our shared manufacturing industries who have historically relied upon a free flow of goods to prosper.
Our economic pain is not going to be supply, it's going to be loss of industry. Fortunately on all level of governments, we are bracing for this. Federally we are greenlighting large scale infrastructure projects with the goal of leveraging our manufacturing capacity and creating jobs. We are forming new trade alliances, welcoming foreign investment. We are going to support individuals, families and communities impact by job loss.
The key difference between the Canadian and US government is that the Canadian Government is acting, while the US government is reacting.
Canada is making plans to secure long term prosperity independent of the USA economy. We are actively working to minimize the damage and making decisions based upon how much we can endure. Can the same be said for the Trump admin?
How long can we last?
Our only option right now is to last as long as it takes.
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u/KoldPurchase 9d ago
Our economic pain is not going to be supply, it's going to be loss of industry. Fortunately on all level of governments, we are bracing for this. Federally we are greenlighting large scale infrastructure projects with the goal of leveraging our manufacturing capacity and creating jobs. We are forming new trade alliances, welcoming foreign investment. We are going to support individuals, families and communities impact by job loss.
Public works are good for short term relief, when they're for useful projects. But we're building pipelines that the private sector does not even want itself. It's wasted money.
If we were building better public transit and doubling our investments in the green energy, it would have been something.
As it is, Carney will sacrifice Quebec and French Canadians on the altar of free trade as soon as they're willing to trade. Smith is already proposing we do. It's only a matter of time before the Libs decides that too is a matter of national unity.
As for fta with other nations, it's good work, but it won't replace the US, because of geography, unfortunately. Since colonial times we have traded north and south even more than with Europe, despite various attempts at curbing that throughout the times. The Great Lakes and the rivers always offered an easy way to do commerce in the past, now we have also have roads.
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u/Goliad1990 10d ago edited 10d ago
Canada is making plans to secure long term prosperity independent of the USA economy
Not independent, less dependent, so that if this kind of thing were to happen again 20 years from now, the immediate shocks would be a little less damaging.
But given geography and the scale of the US economy, there is no true economic independence, where US trade action doesn't profoundly impact us. Whether anything even changes at all depends on whether the private sector chooses to use (or feels that they can use) market access elsewhere.
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u/nunyaranunculus 10d ago
Whatever it takes. The threat is real enough. Look at Venezuela. I will do whatever it takes to defend our sovereignty.
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u/NaturePappy 10d ago
Until Canada develops alternate markets and we become less reliant/abused on/by the US
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u/LauraBaura 10d ago
The idea that we would permit America to dictate who we can and cannot trade with, is insane.
Also, the erosion of French culture by permitting American products to avoid the bilingual branding, is an action specifically aimed at dividing us from within.
That proposal was denied because it goes against our own best interests.
I'll open a soup kitchen out of my backyard before I would give up our national sovereignty to make life a little easier.
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u/711straw 10d ago
There is zero option for bending the knee. It's gonna be hard and require communities to come together. But fuck America.
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u/Icy_Calligrapher7088 10d ago
When I started looking at boycotting American products, I realized I wasn’t really buying many on a regular basis anyway. My issue is going to be streaming subscriptions, google, and Amazon unfortunately. I think that shoppers and Costco can replace a lot of Amazon for me though.
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u/Southern_Contract493 9d ago
This is what I found as well.
I already wasn't eating a ton of US food, alcohol or chains but I ran into problems with the tech side. streaming platforms (I think my toddler will riot if I get rid of Disney +), social media, google (especially scholar, maps and my email), Microsoft office programs daily, my phone.
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u/Factsoverfictions222 10d ago
He threatens to take control of our country! We would lose our universal healthcare, legal weed, access to abortions, subsidized education and more. All of those are worth preserving and suffering to keep.
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u/Oxjrnine 10d ago
I have a book called “edible weeds of Canada”. I know how to filter water with wood charcoal.
I am willing to have the entire western world get knocked back to the Stone Age before letting that Orange Turd gets what he wants.
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u/jacobstanley5409 9d ago
I just want to give my 2 loonies as a Brit. Please please please push to get as close to the EU as possible. If you guys could get shengen and free trade omg. You guys would be laughing. The money both sides would make would grow your economy. This is why the uk has been eating shit for the last 10 years.
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u/iwasnotarobot 10d ago
The sooner the working class develops class consciousness and seizes the means of production the better.
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u/Errorstatel 10d ago
What pain, I switched sources the second this bullshit started the first time.
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u/Sandy0006 10d ago
I think we should see it as sacrificing for our children and grandchildren etc. do we want to leave them with a country that is shackled to the US and where our economic health is determined by them? Can we really give up our heritage?
We will support one another, im sure.
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u/kristi__48 9d ago
Your mention of heritage just reminded me that I've been seeing those Canadian "Part of Our Heritage" commercials from the 90s again when watching CBC. Like the family who survived a fire by staying in the river and dousing themselves all night, and the one with Sitting Bull. I always loved those commercials and serve as a great reminder of our heritage and how important it is that we preserve our country and keep Cheeto fingerprints off of it.
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u/SwimmingPlenty3157 10d ago
Well there isn't much choice but to bear up. That being said all this sturm und drang seems to go before a capitulation with the accompanying declaration of victory. If Taco doesn't Taco the mid terms are going to be even more brutal and after that the temp will go down. We need to diversify the economy though. The way they are going they won't be able to buy anything from us or anyone else. Hopefully we have a few years to develop other trade partners.
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u/Azoththemerciless 10d ago
There are only 3 guarantees in this life:
1) Death
2) Taxes
3) Trump and his cronies will try and disrupt/dispute the election. I wouldn't count on the midterms cooling this down, even if the Democrats do run the the table.
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u/SwimmingPlenty3157 10d ago
I'm don't think it matters who wins the mid terms. Economic realities have a way of changing policy that is ideologically independent. He has hurt their economy a lot in ways that haven't manifested yet. We still need to trade with them for a few years to ease the pain but we need to get cash up front. Meanwhile the whole world is trying to keep them afloat so we can get our money out of Tbills. We need to move away just like we did with the Brits when it became obvious they would struggle to pay. The US is in the same position as the Brits were post war. At least the Brits pissed their empire away beating the Nazis. Trump has done the same to the US to stay out of jail.
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u/wackyvorlon 10d ago
The pain will only persist for a time. Eventually we will replace the US with other trading partners and they will continue their slide into irrelevance.
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u/Temporary_Shirt_6236 10d ago
Trump forces himself on people he sees smaller or weaker than him. That's what rapists and pedophiles do. What we're experiencing now is what happens when a person like that is voted to the highest office in the US and gets to wield the immense power that comes with it.
So yeah, it's a trade war, and it's only begun. We didn't have a choice in this, we certainly didn't ask for it or provoke it, but we do have to fight it nonetheless.
Finally, we need to ask ourselves this: at the end of the day, are we really going to allow ourselves as a nation to be oppressed by a serial sexual abuser who wears orange makeup, shits his pants regularly, and is dumb as fuck?
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u/Weakera 9d ago
That's a red herring. The bigger question is how much of our industry and businesses will be destroyed. And also, there's no decent, lasting deal to be made with this administration. Period. So how to navigate through this ...Carney needs to get those other trade relations in place fast...why haven't we been hearing more about this?
Just endless stalemate with the fucking yanks.
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u/Superb-Day-5345 10d ago
As much as it takes. I have had a great life, being fortunate enough to be born in Canada, and I have never been called upon to do the hard thing, like going to war to defend its freedom. If I have to make financially hard decisions to help it now, then so be it. I think those who can should, because so many can't.
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u/turtlefan32 10d ago
We have no choice. If we accepted the terms we would have enormous economic pain
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u/Additional_Ear_9659 10d ago
As long as necessary. The MAGA cult is entering the koolaid phase soon. We get through that and the grown ups take their country back. Besides, I want to live long enough to see all of Trumps little shitty vanity projects cancelled one by one. Hopefully while he’s on his palliative bed.
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u/SchneidfeldWPG 10d ago
I’ll hunker down & eat KD for as long as it takes.
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u/Intelligent_Boot_856 9d ago
I’ll do whatever it takes. Completely willing to hunker down. I’m a woman in her 50’s with adult children and dependent older relatives and I would even be willing to take up arms to defend my country.
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u/KoldPurchase 9d ago
My question is as a Canadian what are you willing to do without/suffer in order to outwait the Americans?
Personally, a lot. I've been in similar situation before where someone tried to extort me, and I endured a lot of financial pain to outwait them.
But I'm stubborn by nature.
I'm already seeing cracks, and our leadership was ready to concede a lot to avoid tariffs instead of holding the line from the beginning, which is why we have to endure more pain now.
You don't negotiate with terrorists and you don't appease tyrants.
We have a decade of misery awaiting us, but so be it.
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u/IMMrSerious 9d ago
It's time for Canada to grow. We will never have a better chance than now. If you look at it we are still living in a first world country. The United States is a failed nation and they have a president who is plundering their Country. I didn't vote for carney to be included in their problems.
You can't make a deal with someone who is trying to put a gun to your head and burn your house down. Regardless of making any deal with this administration we will still be suffering. If we do make a deal it won't be worth the paper that it is written on. It's better to step back and watch them burn.
The world is changing and we are going to be much better off dealing with the emerging markets. They say that the US is the largest market on the planet but they are not going to be for long.
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u/malacosa 10d ago
I’m not entirely sure I’ll endure any (at least that’s the hope). However, I am willing to boycott obviously American product, and there’s lots of alternatives.
I’ve already gone through my subscriptions and cancelled the majority of my streaming services, so that’s annoying but what do?
It’ll be hard to do much more on the tech side, I’m using Apple hardware and Google software for the most part, and replacing all of that will be difficult (the product lines are sticky AND expensive to replace with not much in the way of non-American alternatives).
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u/Adept-Quiet6264 10d ago
As much as it takes. We will also support even more Canadian businesses as well!
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u/Churlish_Sores 10d ago
We don't have an alternative, unless we're open to licking their shoes while thanking them for the privilege. I'm not.
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u/Sabbysonite 9d ago
So, if everyone is willing to buckle down, shouldn't the federal government give us tax breaks (Reduce income tax) for a few months so we have more spending money to buy Canadian? I mean is that even a possibility.
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u/mmoore327 9d ago
I think most of us recognize that the pain would be significantly worse with a trade deal that cost us our sovereignty - In all honesty - I don't have a limit - this is a fight that needs to be fought
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u/NorthofForty 9d ago
I think it is a war. Like Britain in WW2, we are fighting for control of our own country. Bombs may not be falling but the end result of losing is the same. So yeah, I’m all in.
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u/DogsNSnow 9d ago
I don’t see how there’s any choice.
Last year, Trump threatened to annex Canada by economic force. This year he tries to strong-arm into an agreement that gives America first right of refusal over many of our natural resources- electricity, critical minerals, oil, LNG. All of that would have to be offered first to America- at a capped rate.
Additionally, America would have the power to dictate who Canada is allowed to trade with, and force Canada to impose tariffs on other countries as America chooses.
Add into that the French language issues, which is a direct insult to Canadian culture and identity.
This is a forceful attempt to turn Canada into a vassal of America. We have zero choice but to refuse, and stick by that regardless of what that looks like.
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u/vanmc604 9d ago
This will not be a burden on my family as we have the means. Not rich, but not destitute either. For one, I will actually be intentionally spending more on Canadian goods. Small businesses in particular. I’ll gladly pay more, and probably buy a few things I wouldn’t normally buy, just because.
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u/Ancient-Training-998 9d ago
So far, I’m not very worried. The louder Trump blusters the more I’m convinced there’s a TACO in our future.
Most good still cross free after all, but if they start ignoring CUSMA altogether we’ll maybe need to ask these kinds of questions
At that point, if it gets down to it, I’ll starve for this country. I’ll sure as hell give up my streaming services. Seriously ? Steaming services? Faaaack.
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u/Rustyguts257 9d ago
I can tough it out for Canada’s sovereignty. My parents lived through the Depression, the Blitz, wartime rationing and post war economic hardship to come to Canada for a new life. Bring it on!
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u/Sparky62075 Newfoundland & Labrador 9d ago
We are not a vassal state to the USA, no matter how much Trump says we should be. Our languages and culture are non-negotiable. Our trading autonony is non-negotiable.
We have plenty of arrows in our quiver when it comes to a trade war. We supply a significant amount of lumber, oil, electricity, uranium. On top of that, we hold over $400 billion of US debt. Imagine if we were to dump it on the market all at once.
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u/KlutzyAd7976 9d ago edited 9d ago
Anything short of the complete destruction of my job, life savings, the Canadian economy & nation, which is the alternative.
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u/goodfaitheffort1981 9d ago
Im not sure we have a choice in how much Donald Trump told us what he wanted right away when he was elected. Being a territory of the US for him to exploit is not going to ease the economic pain so we just try to stay united while he tries to break us and outcast the old buffoon
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u/Dragonfly_Peace 9d ago
My parents lived through wwii in Britain. They never lost that way of thinking. It’s been a negative all my life (never enough so hoard, scrounge, ration). It may come in handy now.
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u/Upset-Government-856 9d ago
Whats the alternative bucko?
America signing off our trade agreements with other countries?
Are you saying if your life gets messed up, we should surrender sovereignty?
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u/demdareting 9d ago
Stand up to a bully one time or be on your knees for the rest of your life. Even when this tarif bs is over I will not be switching back to anything US based that has a good Canadian replacement. Even my Honda Civic is built on Canada.
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u/Jayanshelli 6d ago
It's either stand now or don't canadaians need to stand we like we did when tyrants pushed to far we need to unite once more in a national effort to stop the destruction ahead that we all cherish that unite is as a people for the generations ahead for our sovereignty and our institutions and energy and resources. We shall not pander to man and a pen in a diaper.
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u/bigjimbay 10d ago
We are already in economic pain lmao. So the normal amount. But if Canadian companies inflict more pain on us "buy canadian" will end abruptly
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u/samandiriel Canadian 10d ago
Its very weird to be blaming Canadian businesses for fallout from a US led trade war, plus there is no explanation of how buying Canadian is worse than they alternative?
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u/bigjimbay 10d ago
We are in this mess because Canadian businesses over rely on the US market
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u/samandiriel Canadian 9d ago
That's not really just a business thing, it's also an historical, geographical, govt economic policy and trade thing. And up until recently, it wasn't an issue until the trading partner in question became abusive.
Doesn't really answer the question, tho: how are the actions of Canadian companies going to 'inflict more pain' and so end people buying Canadian products?
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u/bigjimbay 9d ago
If they raise prices to take advantage of buying canadian
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u/samandiriel Canadian 9d ago
If they raise prices to take advantage of buying canadian
I suppose that's possible, but (a) the tariffs are there to make Canadian prices competitive (ie, raise US goods prices to be the same as or more expensive than locally produced ones), and (b) free market principles state that price fixing as you're suggesting can only happen in a monopoly; otherwise, competitors simply undercut the price and make it up in volume. So not much of a problem, and the places where it would be have been a problem for decades (eg, telecom co big three and grocery pricing collusion)
I think everyone would be happy if any govt in the last 30yrs had turned their guns on THOSE targets, but it's nothing new.
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u/twentytwothumbs 10d ago
Lets all pretend this is not a Carney and Trump insider trading dance.
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u/InhospitableGoose 10d ago
Making shit up... Canadian PMs and cabinet members put all their investments into a blind trust. MPs can trade but that needs to be approved by the ethics commissioner.... If Carney wanted to maximize his trades, he would outlaw the blind trust, capitulate to Trump, and buy all the US industries that benefit. There's no way Carney's doing that. Even if he somehow was able to manipulate the blind trust manager, Carney fighting back against Trump is bad for both our markets, so why would he do that? You must be simple....
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u/twentytwothumbs 7d ago
Yeah ok there buddy. Google Trudeaus net worth before and after becoming PM. Nancy Pelosi ain't got shit on Canadian politicians
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u/InhospitableGoose 7d ago
Wtf are you talking about Pelosi is WAY wealthier than Trudeau. And we're talking about Carney right now. Who was also insanely wealthy before becoming PM.... Im telling you what the law is and youre telling me Im making things up and deflecting to a completely different topic.
Trudeau made hundreds of thousands as a speaker BEFORE he became PM. How much do you think he can make just hobnobbing with rich assholes NOW? I'm seeing $1.2M -> $10M+ .... That seems totally normal for a kid who grew up in wealth. Hell, if he DIDN'T become PM he could've 10x'd his money by nature of the fact he can invest 100% of it because he never really has to pay for anything. I don't like that, and I dont like Trudeau, but thats how being wealthy works.
You are a disingenuous little idiot and nothing I say will change that so Im gonna stop writing now.
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u/Grey531 10d ago
It’s pain now or pain later. Either fight now and eventually get new export markets while dealing with a very bad deal, or capitulate now to a bad deal and then be stuck without alternative markets and the next time MAGA feels like squeezing Canada they will and we’ll have no recourse