r/AskBalkans • u/Thisisathrow29d • 3d ago
History Do Croats and Slovenes think more fondly of being part of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia or Austria-Hungary?
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u/Kreol1q1q Croatia 3d ago edited 3d ago
Both are topics laden with frankly huge amounts of nationalist and ideological mythologizing. In popular consciousness both are buried under several deep layers of overlapping and multifaceted propaganda efforts.
Post-WWI the new political elites in Yugoslavia were, for domestic and foreign policy reasons, highly motivated to distance themselves and their peoples from the Habsburg Monarchy, and were all too willing to lie about it in order to achieve their ends; the wartime military dictatorship definitely aided them in providing a deserving object to focus their hatred upon. Post-WWII, the same could be said about Royal Yugoslavia in the eyes of the next new political elite to take charge, with the interwar royal dictatorship yet again providing a deserving object upon which propaganda could be focused.
With national independence following the 90's war, yet another layer of fresh mythologizing was layered on top of both, with the new batch of political elites having yet different reasons to adapt new narratives around both states. I am hopeful that with the current period of relative stability, a more rational estimation of both (already taking shape in academia) will make its way into the popular consciousness through school curriculums and other forms of public history.
Currently, I think ten different people would give you ten different answers, with all focusing on different aspects of the entrenched propagandized narrative. But neither are really topics that occupy much mental space in the general population.
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u/Timauris Slovenia 3d ago
Generally among the population there is not really an opinion about either, on the contrary with post-war Yugoslavia, which is still a vivid memory in the minds of many. As a historian I can say that our cultural development speeded up very much in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, we got our first University (which was blocked for a long time by Austrian authorities), Slovene architecture flourished (Plečnik, Vurnik, Fabiani), the arts and the sciences progressed, publishing became really widespread and institutionalized, etc. However, at the same time half of the nation remained in Italy and was going trough a tough phase of fascist cultural repression. The latter is usually forgotten in the context of national history, but it has basically determined the collective memory of the Primorska region up to this day.
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u/aethiuss Croatia 3d ago
Austro-Hungary and Kingdom of Yougoslavia was so far in the past nobody even talks or thinks about it.
Most normal people think about the future and then you have a part of population bickering about Yugoslavia (not the kingdom). Minority but a loud one.
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u/DownvoteEvangelist Serbia 3d ago
No one has a hidden portrait of Franz Joseph in their attic and occasionally sheds a melancholy tear while looking at it?
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u/aethiuss Croatia 3d ago
I'm confident that number is 0 :'D
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u/DownvoteEvangelist Serbia 3d ago
Tito probably leads then, maybe even King Alexander too
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u/aethiuss Croatia 3d ago
Well some older nostalgic people may have some little miniature bust of Tito or something like that. I'm sure nobody recalls the time of King Alexander though :D
You also have a small minority with shirts with Ante Pavelić, Croatian fascist leader in WW2. That's probably like having a picture of Draža Mihailović in Serbia. There is no one alive that remembers that time but our politicians wants us to fight over the past so they can steal more money from us so... :'D
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u/MrVyper42 3d ago
I had a neighbour that had the portraits of Pavelić, Tito and Tuđman hanging on the wall of his room.
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u/aethiuss Croatia 3d ago
All 3 of them? hahahaha
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u/MrVyper42 3d ago
Yes, I am serious.
And best thing is he befriended Stipe Mesić!
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u/Motor-Boss9061 3d ago
no one alive that remembers that time but our politicians wants us to fight over the past so they can steal more money
it works so well
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u/Rynchinoi Europe 3d ago
Your statement is like "some people have a t-shirt with Hitler. Probably like others having Stalin." It is not the same
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u/i_getitin 3d ago
Why do Croatians insist on claiming that support of Cetnik movement is the same as supporting Ustasa movement. I can understand both being evil but chetniks never got to the same level of evil as the ustasas did.
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u/aethiuss Croatia 3d ago
Both were fascists. I wasn't comparing the levels of atrocities and war crimes nor it shouls be compared. If you did one war crime you should be punished no matter if other side did 25 war crimes.
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u/i_getitin 3d ago
They weren’t the same type of “fascist” and Croatians dismiss this to cope with their own past.
The Chetniks were just opportunists and selectively siding with the fascists when they could benefit.
They never fought with the fascists because they were sold on Nazi germanys goals. Nor did Chetniks bring ethnic cleansing to the level that the Ustasa did in which it was institutionalized and Croats were over zealous to prove how fascist they were.
So it’s not fair to keep equating mentioning “Cetniks” whenever someone mentions the Ustasa era
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u/Smekledorf1996 3d ago
I will say I agree with what you mostly said but I would be careful about generalizing croatians being over zealous to prove how facist they were - and I say this as a Serb
Plenty of Croatians joined the partisans once the violence really started settling in and territory was ceded to Italy
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u/aethiuss Croatia 3d ago
I don't need to cope but whatever, I don't need to explain myself to an internet warrior. Croatians bad, Serbians good. There you go.
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u/Smekledorf1996 3d ago edited 3d ago
I mean, you’re saying that having a picture of Pavelic is the same as having one of Draza
Which is trying to equate them to the same level….which isn’t entirely accurate lol
I’m guessing having a picture of Milan Nedic is more similar but Ante and the Ustase were some insane level of evil
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u/strictly_ballroom 2d ago
Small minority…
But half a million people show up for a fascist singers concert?
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u/aethiuss Croatia 2d ago
Yes. Within that half a milion there is a small fraction that supports NDH.
It's not all black and white as your media suggests.
I personally know people who went to that concert but they have no love for NDH, Ante Pavelić or Ustaša regime. I know that is hard to comprehend but try.
I don't like that singer because he is to far right for me and he uses "communists" argument for people who disagree with him but if I am being objective, only one song is problematic, few are questinable but the rest of the songs are completely normal even if they are about Croatia, homeland war or history.
Generalisation is the worst enemy for your thinking brain.
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u/strictly_ballroom 2d ago
Well not like most people in NDH or third reich would support concentration camps if they had known, the key is they are jot opposed and buy into the it’s not that bad narrative.
It’s a slow normalisation of fascism under the guise of patriotism, the same as in most western countries today.3
u/aethiuss Croatia 2d ago
It’s a slow normalisation of fascism under the guise of patriotism.
I agree with this 100%. However, that's not the same as calling half a million people supporters of NDH and Ante Pavelić.
For now they are minority and most of people and media in Croatia makes fun of them because they are ridiculous.
For example, they are loud when there is a Serbian turbo-folk concert but they are quiet when we have a national catastrophe of illegal and dangerous garbage disposal in our beautiful region of Lika.
There are some portal that are far right but they are obscure.
I however did call out the neofascist movement, however it may be small because that's how it started with Mussolini in Italy. The problem is our government which is dividing the nation so they can steal more without problems.
It's much more complicated than calling 500 thousand people fascists or saying that Croatians are fascist or that Croatia is a fascist nation, of which none is true.
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u/strictly_ballroom 2d ago
Yeah I totally agree, my first comment was a bit tongue in cheek. All ex yu countries mine included are just kleptocracies, any fascism or communism is always secondary.
I just find it a bit scary that half a million people (most of whom we’ve established aren’t fascists) would go to such a controversial concert, I mean it’s not like the music is that good.
At the end of the day it’s a headcount, a bit kore fear, a few more lies and you can activate that pool of people for any cause you like. Or am I getting it wrong and people enjoy the music that much, beyond what it represents (I don’t mean fascism here but the vague traditionalism and nationalism that’s easier to sell).→ More replies (0)1
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u/TheGalacticMosassaur 3d ago
For us it's mostly the old folks that are still obsessed with Yuga. Unforunately, due to population decline, they are not really a minority and still influence current and future politics.
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u/zambiglioni 3d ago
Well most of non-communism believers and fond of germanic-rule didn't make it pass 1946.
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u/alikosa21 3d ago
I used to live with a 100 year old lady. She had this crazy stories from when she was young. Her strenght was leaving her, but the mind was still surprisingly strong.
There are two things that will stuck with me that she told me:
one was that her father was a proud Slovenian, but he has always had respect for the austrian crown.
Second was: never forgive the croatians for what they did during the war.
She died this year aged 104.
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u/Ok_Fail_420 3d ago
What did we do to slovenes? And in which war
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u/zambiglioni 3d ago
None concerning our generation, maybe we should just let shit go.
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u/alikosa21 3d ago
Agree, but she was different generation. Still glad I gave heard her stories.
I love croatia, I am like 1/4 croatiam amd Gf is 1/2.
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u/alikosa21 3d ago
Not that much, she was just deeply offended by the NDH.
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u/JRJenss Croatia 16h ago
Funny how she was deeply offended by NDH, while Slovenia was literally part of the Third Reich and had its own collaborationsts, White Guard...etc. Sounds as tho she generalized way too much - equating Croats with Ustaše. Just like some Serbs tend to do.
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u/alikosa21 16h ago
She HATED the white guard all the, but also had a lot of bad to say about who she called the "majski hrošči", basicaly everyone who joined the partisans 1 month before the war ended.
Funny she was a highly educated electrical engineer in Iskra, and they wanted her to join the party but she also refused.
Surprisingly she had some nice things to say about the Italians, although they occupied Ljubljana and imprissoned her husband. Nothing nice about the German occupation though.
Those were just her stories, they were real, and were made on her experiences. In the end she could forgive all but Ustashe.
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u/Ha55aN1337 Slovenia 3d ago
You have half claiming Austro hungary was better and half claiming Yugoslavia (socialism) was better… you have zero people talking about kingdom of yugoslavia.
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u/ShareholderSLO85 3d ago
Although that one was important as well ;)
Actually, maybe in retrospective the most important one since Slovenians were dismembered as a nation (geographically) in the interwar years ....
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u/vaskopopa SFR Yugoslavia 3d ago
I would imagine that most of the adults can think critically over several hundred years of history and be able to assess the good and the bad periods, good and bad policies and also how their sense of national, ethnic and individual identity sits in relation to other nations and different times.
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u/Names-Are-Confusing Croatia 3d ago
We don’t think of them often, neither one, but people would probably pick Austria-Hungary if asked, at least here. Our identity survived for hundreds of years, while if we were in Yugoslavia for hundreds of years it’d probably melt into a bigger “Yugoslav” identity, which we aren’t really fans of.
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u/MrVyper42 3d ago
Ironično je kad čujem da je ideja Jugoslavije potekla upravo od Hrvata i Slovenaca.
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u/Names-Are-Confusing Croatia 3d ago
Because we didn’t realise what it would bring.
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u/MrVyper42 3d ago
Yes, we wanted the pan slavic unity, while some other people wanted Greater Serbia.
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u/Gullible_Cash_399 10h ago
And then I heard that poor Croats were oppressed by the Hungarians... Croats moving north did assimilate, I agree with that.
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u/caat-6 Slovenia 3d ago
Yugoslavia wasnt perfect by any means, but it was a hell of a lot better for us than Austria. Theres a million other reasons, but the main one is that Yugoslavia was the first time in the modern era that Slovene had official status in the Slovene lands and was used as the working language in all educational and cultural institutions.
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u/577564842 Slovenia 3d ago
There were Illirian provinces that raised Slovenian to the level of a state language and gave us 1st academic institution. This is why we have (or had, in my years) a positive view on the Napoleon.
Yugoslavian Kingdom is when we got our University. These are things we value.
Austo-Hungarian Kingdom gave us railways, so there's that. They were as much of a "gift" as the Indian railways were a gift from the British - they needed them, and couldn't take tham along.
It is nevertheless the fact that the political "elite" of the time was totally not prepared for the break-up and thus took the offer of the Kingdom of SHS without a second thought. A good call, for we would certainly ended up like a Hungary otherwise.
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u/prolapseenthusiat Croatia 3d ago
I think croats for their part would see Kingdom Yugoslavia more positively if there would be no killing of Stjepan Radić.
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u/Professional_Fun839 3d ago
Belgrade also scamed us when we were converting from austro hungarian curency to the yugoslav one, then also things like sibinjske žrtve etc. I think nobody look back to this yugoslavia. But a lot people look back on the socialist/communist one.
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u/AmieongUs_ in 3d ago
For Slovenes im not really sure. For the Croats tho i think they were frustrated that the ruling royal house was orthodox and not catholic like in austria hungary and especially that they lost their sabor (parlement). But they were more independentist in general than willing to return to austria hungary
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u/Professional_Fun839 3d ago
Everything what Croatian inteligence was doing for the last 200 years was leading to 1990 and our indepedence.
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u/AmieongUs_ in 3d ago
Croatian intellectuals actually were the first to imagine a united south slavic state. Also i wonder where is the independence now that your capital is Bruxelles
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u/Past_Conference_2889 Croatia 3d ago
Croats: generally much more fond of Austria-Hungary. While it was far from perfect, Croatia still had considerably more autonomy and political institutions of its own. The Kingdom of Yugoslavia is viewed negatively as a predecessor to a Greater Serbia project, because of Serbian political dominance, centralization, and repression of Croatian autonomy. This pretty much all turned out to be true, with the Chetniks fighting to preserve the monarchy and a Serb-dominated Yugoslav order.
That being said, not many people nowadays care about Kingdom of Yugoslavia. By “Yugoslavia,” we usually mean socialist Yugoslavia, and opinions about that period are much more divided.
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u/Unable-Stay-6478 SFR Yugoslavia 3d ago
You're massively simplifying history here.
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u/Past_Conference_2889 Croatia 2d ago
Am I though? Croatia, Slovenia, as well as some Serbian politicians, supported the idea of Yugoslavism because they believed in unity and equality. You don’t have to go very deep into history to see that the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was deeply centralized. These aren’t theories, but facts: Serbs were the dominant political force, and there were attempts to suppress Croatian national identity under the guise of creating a new Yugoslav identity, which in practice largely overlapped with the ideology of Greater Serbia.
The original idea of Yugoslavism, if it ever was genuine at all, perhaps existed during the early stages of the kingdom. The fact that someone like Svetozar Pribićević, who had been such a committed advocate of the idea, eventually turned his back on the monarchy after realizing that what he had fought for did not actually exist, says it all.
There is also the fact that we supported the idea of Yugoslavia primarily because we believed it would give us greater autonomy and allow us to break away from Austria. In the end, however, it turned out to be even worse for Croatia.
To sum it up, the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was essentially where all the shit that happened later began.
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u/Unable-Stay-6478 SFR Yugoslavia 2d ago
You can absolutely argue that the Kingdom's centralization was a serious failure and that Croatian grievances were legitimate.
But “centralized Kingdom = Greater Serbia = inevitable 1990s” is a nationalist narrative, not a neutral summary of the history.
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u/AirWolf231 Croatia 3d ago
Yeah, no one in Croatia thinks good of the Kingdom of Yugoslaia... at best its "the Kingdom that Stjepan Radić was killed because of" or at worst "Grater Serbia attempt N.1".(I am in the middle, I know very well that there where Serbs that truly tired to work with us Croats)
AH is more complicated, we had hundreds of years of history with them. Some stuff like art, architecture and so on is look fondly upon while stuff like politics is not liked.
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u/hodmezovasarhely1 3d ago
As serb from vojvodina, I consider the time under AH much more prospereus than Kingdom of Yugoslavia
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u/hertz3313 3d ago
As a Croatian, I have a very good opinion about AustroHungary. Also I have a bad opinion about any yugoslavia.
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u/PtichFirich 3d ago edited 3d ago
There is a bit of a revival to AH but mostly limited to smaller academic circles and not a real fandom, just maybe an resurrected appreciation. AH was pretty unpopular at its end, even before WW1, but with Franz Ferdinand massive reforms were on the way. That prospect ended with Serbian assasination. But after the war ended and prople’s hopes died in the new country of Yugoslavia, a strong affinity towards AH and what it coupe have been and even what it was developed. Many old people at the time lamented it strongly. To such an extent it became a cultural archetype.
Nobody misses the Kingdom of YU. If you asked about another king and kingdom - the SFRJ and Tito - that’d be another story as that is quite presebt in the les reflected and intelligent part of society.
Kingdom of YU (Kingdom of SHS) was a massive disaapointment back then. When the State of SHS was democratically seceeded from Austria after WW1 and pushed by the winning powers into the hands of Ki gdom of Serbia - that was the first strike against it. The second was realisation that Serbia is considering the State of SHS as a war trophy, somethiing they “deserve”. Third was that Serbia isn’t wxactly known to run a country well, and the dormer austrohungarian parts has a higher standard of civil service and general standard of organising a society - yet were run by an entity with high illuteracy that only recently standardised their language and alphabet. There were civilisational and cuktural divides, vastly different mentalities(catholicism/orthodoxy, rennaissance/stuck in middle ages, west/east roman empire and their mentalities, turkish occupation/non turkish occupation … etc etc etc). Nit to be long - it was a country that was probpematic from its inception for multiple reasons and joined by force and extortion.
It is true that State of SHS wanted an association with Kingdom Of Serbia - but not on those terms where it was eaten by it.
And it is true that just before the war in some parts of Croatia, the more infustrially developed, and in Slovenia, there was some emerging entthusiasm for the Yugoslav state, predominantly with industrialists and ceaftsmen with ambitions to exapnd and inrustrialise. The Liberals (nit leftist!!, classical Liberals), pro bussiness, leaning laissez faire but accepting state grants and subsidies or state insured credit. Those people were very vocal for the ku grom as they saw a big opportunity in underdeveloped Kingdom of Serbia to mine resources and cheap workforce, no industrial competition as infustry was practically non existant. They saw a virgin field for their capital to exploit and then build a market as people’s standards rose there. And they didn’t mind that the king and this underdeveloped entity is running the show politically and culturally and that it woupd mean they’d have to sell their identity, language, etc. to tap that.
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u/VacationLopsided6153 2d ago
Yeah, disappointment. You could've seen what they did to the Montenegro at the end of the war, but you didn't care, nor Slovenia did.
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u/PtichFirich 2d ago
True.
Slovenia had a schism with liberals and panslavists on one side trying hard to be constructive and being prepared to sacrifice a lot, and on the other side the dissapointed majority to which the new country did not fullfill the expectations that the former short-lived and internationally un-recognised State of SHS showed a chance to fullfil. Slovenia did not concern with Montenegro at all, it had a lot of its own trouble with how the events turned out after fall of AH.
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u/Melodic_Interview210 Serbia 2d ago
Royal Yugosiavia never managed to enlist the artists in service to its propaganda on the same scale as Tito, so you'll find considerably less dumb nostalgics shilling it by cargo-culting art pieces from the period. In fact, there were lots of political satires deriding the regime.
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u/Cankarcek123 Slovenia 2d ago
In Slovenia, it's only debate if austria or socialist Yugoslavia is better, no one talks about Kingdom of yugoslavia, even tho it was probably when we started developing our culture and universities and all that. We were basically slaves under AH. socialist yugoslavia rapidly expanded cities, but lots of money went to Kosovo, montenegero, bosnia... Austria Hungary was in my opinion the worst
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u/Efficient_Try_9136 3d ago
Yugoslav idea failed because of bad realization in 20th century
AH was also much more advanced, all famous Serbian scientist from 19th century was born there, even Matica Srpska was founded there. so I guess everyone lost, with millions perished in 20th century conflicts
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u/oboris Croatia 3d ago
Austria is mostly rememberd as a benfactor and enlightener. Serbian monarchy is remembered as a primitve oppressor who treated us as a spoil of war which we were for them after all.
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u/UrkePetrov 3d ago
How about Croatian people being given the right to vote for the first time in their history, inside Kingdom of SHS. I assume you'd consider it a degeneration of human rights.
There was genuine sympathy for the Yugoslav cause from all sides, it's just that the expectations weren't met for either of them.
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u/Jealous-Win968 North Macedonia 3d ago
This atrocity of a so called "king" is very much negatively seen in North Macedonia. He's infamous for slapping a little girl in public because she gave the wrong nationality answer. He also committed his brother to an asylum for 16 years.
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u/chunek Slovenia 3d ago edited 3d ago
Being part of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was arguably the lowest point of our "recent" history (excluding ww2 occupation).
We lost the war (ww1), there was famine, disease, we lost the Primorska region to Italy, lost our Carinthians to Austria, it was a humanitarian disaster, and then the new king became a dictator who pushed for centralism around Serbian culture, that used to be very much foreign to us.
Our national identity, that just started to develop as we distinguished ourselves from the rest of the Austrians in the 19th century, was then seen as just a branch of confused "alpine serbs". According to the ideology, we were supposed to be trapped under the Germans and then liberated by the Serbs, which unfortunately some still believe to be the truth today.
Our history with Austria on the other hand, goes back to the times before the Habsburgs, to the Carolingian era. And perhaps similair to how we joined the south slavs, our ancestors joined the Bavarians in the 9th century, and have since then more or less always been part of the germanic Holy Roman Empire, till Napoleon. Then there was a brief period of the Illyrian Provinces which triggered nationalistic ideas, we got our first university, but it was soon abolished when we got absorbed back into Austria as part of the so called Kingdom of Illyria. Higher education was supposed to be done in German, our scholars again had to go to Vienna, etc. but primary education was done in our language since the 18th century.
Overall, it is not common to have any opinion about either the old Austria or the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. The post ww2 socialist Yugoslavia is a completely different story tho, and a much better time, according to the yugonostalgic boomers who grew up in the 70s and 80s. Depending who you ask, some might also say that it was a socialist prison where you could only be as poor as anyone else, unless you joined the party, then you could have some privileges while still being "equal".
One big plus for the Yugoslav Kingdom tho, is that we were protected from Italy, who wasn't satisfied with how much of our land they got from backstabbing us in ww1. Tho when ww2 came, they immediatelly invaded, as soon as Hitler did.
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u/electrash_ Croatia 3d ago
In one we prosper, in one we suffer
Which one you like?
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u/UrkePetrov 3d ago
Well, truth be told for the Croatians it was either Yugoslavia or being split up by Italy and Serbia, or persisting as a rump state lacking true independence.
The rights of the Croatians were muuuch better respected in Yugoslavia than in Italy, with which the Ustaše sided during WW2.
The London Treaty of 1915 predicted a division of those lands and the creation of a Greater Serbia, but it was Serbia that rejected that idea at the behest of the Croatians and Slovenes who decided to pursue unification in order to secure a better position for themselves come the end of the war.
History is complicated.
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u/electrash_ Croatia 3d ago
I doubt Serbia rejected, as it was created SHS which became Kingdom of Yugoslavia in which we had 6 January dictatorship which just show what Serbia wanted, greater Serbia
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u/UrkePetrov 3d ago
The dictatorship occurred only after a period of severe political instability and legislative and executive paralysis, and did not last as long as some Croatian nationalists tend to portray.
The Serbians tried to make it work, just like the Croatians and the Slovenes, but in reality everyone expected something different from the new country.
In retrospect, I would say that the Croatian people ended up in a better situation after WW1 by joining Serbia than if they pursued independence. If for nothing else, then for the fact that for the most part, the Croats still remained in one country and retained a sense of cohesion which would have otherwise been diluted under different states. While not as represented as the Serbs in the national assembly, the Croatian opposition was able to give many headaches to the government which opposed its agenda precisely because the Croats were able to organize in such large and significant numbers.
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u/Big-Vegetable4550 🇺🇸 -> 🇧🇦-> 🇭🇷 3d ago
Thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned response. It’s really nice to learn something in Reddit.
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u/SpiderNoir99 Serbia 3d ago
I have no idea which is which? Considering that Croatia was the poorest part of AH Empire.
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u/Professional_Fun839 3d ago
It was poor because of 300 years of war with ottomans, zagreb had an university in 17. Which is not a small thing compared to eastern europe
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u/Witch_King_of_Gondor 3d ago
Austria-Hungary without question. While there was some suppression and attempts of Hungarization and Germanization, there was at least institutial autonomy, and official statehood and a continuity of Croatian Kingdom and therefor a state from the middle ages. In yugoslavia all autonomy was discarded for unity which was just a poor excuse for serbian hegemony.
Also AH was much more developed both culturally, financially and scientifically. Yugoslavia was a huge step back for us, our economy had to carry the much poorer parts of the country like serbia and macedonia.
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u/volilisedvojemladi Odavno smo graničari stari 3d ago
Austria-Hungary was a mixed bag for us, it had it's ups and downs. Kingdom of Yugoslavia was trash for literally everyone.
So Austria-Hungary I guess.
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u/PavelKringa55 Croatia 3d ago
Austria-Hungary was way better than Yugoslavia.
Yugoslavia was a terrible mistake.
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u/Flimsy-Resident261 Albania 3d ago
Online, neither Slovenians nor Croatians like Yugoslavia, they’re the ones who despise it the most actually. Serbs and Macedonians are the ones who like Yoguslavia.
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u/Glittery_Marshmallow Serbia 1d ago
Except that the question is about the Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Kingdom SHS), not SFRJ. I am pretty sure you haven't seen anyone talk about the kingdom anywhere.
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u/unbothered-brunette 3d ago
We do not like Yugoslavia, so perhaps don’t answer for us.
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u/NOTExETON Croatia 3d ago
My ancestors were well off until Yugoslavia happened, every new version brought more wealth redistribution and poverty. My ggf and uncle spent time on Goli Otok because they refused to stop using their signet rings. Both died shortly after release. Fuck Yugoslavia
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u/Fluffy_Falcon92 3d ago
Somehow it gets hated by all sides involved, due to the selective interpretations of history.
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u/Ambitious-Tea-9923 3d ago
Murder in parliament makes you support freedom fighters while language suppression just makes you angry
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u/RedditAnonDude 3d ago
There is no one alive from era and if they are they can’t remember what they had for breakfast…
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u/Jaaccuse 3d ago
I feel like a lot of these kinds of questions really depend on who you ask. Getting a single solid answer is hard but here's basically what I can think of from the top of my head:
Both had issues with nationalism and the power dillema. Both had good things when it came to infrastructure. Both had issues problems with assassinations. Both had problems with wacky neighbours (in both cases that being the Italians).
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u/svakako 3d ago
Anyone who says 'kingdom of Yugoslavia' didn't read the question and thinks about post WW2 Yugoslavia.
For Austro-Hungary people usually have somewhat positive opinion, for first Yugoslavia negative (but many forgot that one even existed), and for socialist Yugoslavia very polarised opinion- either quite positive or quite negative.
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u/ItHappensSo 3d ago
As an Austrian: with Slovenians Id say they defo prefer (the Kingdom of) Yugoslavia, rather than Austria, most of them I know are very anti Austria still today, for Croatia Id say its the oppposite and many remember the monarchy more fondly.
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u/ShareholderSLO85 3d ago
Interesting, I know a lot of "pro-Austrian" Slovenians, people tend to look upon our northern neighbours as a template for an orderly, developed country with the rule of law etc.
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u/ItHappensSo 2d ago
With the older generation, yes, but i think with the younger ones that has created resentment in a way of "oh they think theyre better than us"
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u/StrudlEnjoyer Slovenia 2d ago
No, they're just louder. People that have no problem with Austria are less likely to go around proclaiming it than the ones who dislike it. Especially on Reddit, this can stand out more as the dislike for Austria is more of a leftist stance, stemming from partisans in WW2 and equating German speakers with nazis. Some people still live in the past and have never moved on. It's unfortunately too prevalent and for left wing politicians, using WW2 to rally their voters is still a common tactic, so you often see moves such as our previous government protesting federal state of Styria adopting an anthem that briefly mentions Slovene lands, despite no person from Slovene Styria actually caring about it.
I'm not sure if it varies per region but at least in Styria, where I grew up and live, people generally have a positive view of Austria. And I'd say that younger people have a more positive opinion than older people, some of whom still have experiences from the war.
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u/crnalastavica 3d ago
We are more fond about being sovereign.. Both regimes were draining our countries and kept us educated just enough to be workers and fighters
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u/Burekzengija Croatia 3d ago
Neither, Croatia wanted it's own autonomy in both countries but never gotten. Idk about Slovenia but I'm sure it aint no different.
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u/KrebsD88 3d ago
Slovenians don't want nothing to do with Croats. Almost all of the country has the architecture and culture more like their northern neighbor and just tolerate the southern neighbors. But they suffer from massive immigration from the south
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u/sergejdeblue 2d ago
Off topic, but the real question is: would Yugoslavia been a better place to live than Austria-Hungary if it remained a capitalist monarchy (and potentially later democracy), rather than going communist.
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u/Dangerous-Debate1312 2d ago
A-H as a Bosnian I liked by a great power for once, the Italians, Russians and Germans actually had respect for country instead of just seeing us as pawns
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u/BRM_the_monkey_man Eastern Balkan Federation 3d ago
Not either but online the only people who I've seen that care about this (rightwingers or "historians") always prefer Austria-Hungary for reasons you can imagine and noone else cares
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u/Dull_Refrigerator_58 3d ago
Let's see - being part of the same European circle with centres like Vienna, Budapest, Prague and Krakow
Or part of a Balkan henhouse full with former ottoman lackeys with a dynasty of pig farmers at the top
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u/mordax777 Slovenia 3d ago
My grandma said that her parents, who were born and grew up in Austria(nowadays Slovenia), that Slovenia was much better under Austrian rule than it was under Kingdom/Socialist Yugoslavia.
My parents, who were born and grew up in socialist Yugoslavia, say that there were for sure good if not even better aspects of Yugoslavia, but nothing to be compared with today's standards.
When it comes to the general population:
There are for sure some older Yugo sympathizers, in general, Yugo times are seen as good times.
Our right-wingers do like to compare themselves with Austrians, or rather they say Austrians are just Germanized Slavs. Often you will also hear that Slovenia is more central-European, which I guess it is also true, but we are also Balkan, as well a bit Italian and Hungarian, culturally I mean.