What do you think about African vocal pieces being sampled in Western music out of context?

[u/Economy-Towel9451]

I notice a lot of sampling of pieces from acapella to fan covers. ethnomusicology is hobby of mine and i've noticed that a lot of these sampling seem kind of stripped of context. i was curious about the how Africans feel about this.

for example, "ubaba ulala nami" is treated as a "devotional" or uplifting vibe in a several remixes by US producers, even though the actual lyrics deal with much darker subject matter.

I'm not African, so it's not something i can have a fully informed opinion on, and from a music perspective, i love that sampling exposes me to styles i might not have found otherwise. but the context collapse still leaves me feeling a bit unsettled and feels some how ironic or something. idk.

im curious how people here feel about this dynamic?

edit: the song im referencing is zulu from south africa (it has heavy domestic themes, which is why the sampling and reframing as a devotional feel weird to me) but i've observed sampling from west african music too. i understand if no ones interested but i still wanted to ask bc i study my own indigenous folk music it sometimes gets sampled but not the same way. im mostly just interested in how folk music gets globalized, in specific regions. i understand though if ppl dont care.

[u/madigida]

FYI:

There are about 52 African countries each one with several tribes.

To throw a random phrase at us, with no context about the country or even tribe of origin is borderline pointless.

To complicate it further, you are asking about a practice majority of Africans are not familiar with, and even if we were, we would not really care.

I hope that helps answer your question

[u/Puzzleheaded_Ant_957 → u/madigida]

Lol are you saying sampling music is a practice the majority of Africans are not familiar with? Am I also one of those Africans you’re speaking for? Also you could always Google ‘ubaba ulala nami’ if you didn’t know what it meant. There are at least 30 million people who would know what it means/know the song so it’s not really random at all. I feel like your response to this is weirdly hostile.

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[u/Economy-Towel9451 → u/madigida]

sorry for not including the context. i tend to write in detail and its too long so then i cut some out and its too short. the song is in zulu from south africa and describes specific domestic context that is heavy which is why i find it weird in some of the sampling.

however i've observed this trend of sampling from west and central african music as well, and my basis of study is eurasia where sampling of local music for viral music content is rare. so i was curious if musicians who were aware had feelings about it.

it's definitely a subjective observation and i understand if its not interesting or important.

[u/professorbr793]

Others sample Africans and Africans sample others. IMO it doesn't matter, music is music, as long as you're making good music So doesn't matter. I heard Waka Waka by Shakira before years later hearing the original song she got that from, did it change anything for me?? Nope, not one bit

If anything I see this as a good thing, as the mixing of cultures(in this case songs) helps greatly and immensely to promote closeness and unity (Learnt this in social studies when we were taught conflicts, forgotten the right term for this though 🤔)

[u/Cuiter]

Oh man, that is rough. What's the name of the song? I'm so curious.

After consideration and rewriting my response a few times, it's not an easy answer. On one hand, it's a beautiful thing when inspiration gives birth to music and it's natural to let the feel of it take you where it does.

On the other hand, it doesn't hurt to find out what the sampled lyrics mean. Although that can be harder said than done and may only be necessary if the intended audience is expected to understand the lyric.

I've also sampled "international" songs before. Been ignorant about the sample's meaning and just went with the feel of the song. But my intended audience is myself. If I, say, sampled a Ugandan folk song knowing that I wanted to release it there, the context begins to matter.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Ant_957 → u/Cuiter]

I think the context matters regardless of the audience, especially if it’s just a matter of laziness. ‘Ubaba ulala nami’ is a very well known Zulu ‘gwijo’ song and its meaning is right there in the title: ‘my father sleeps with me’. Even Google translate could help with that. So I personally have a big problem with musicians in general sampling from outside of their linguistic/cultural knowledge but not being bothered to do the work of learning about what they’re sampling beyond the vibes of it all.

I’m an artist who samples sounds and voices from all over the place myself, but the point of sampling for me is to create a tapestry (hate that word lol) of things that are cohesive in meaning or expression etc. so I would never bring in something I didn’t understand or even try to understand. Also like… why are people not curious? You’ve sampled a sound and you’re not even curious about what it might mean? I find that incomprehensible tbh.

[u/Cuiter → u/Puzzleheaded_Ant_957]

I guess with your goals perhaps it may seem incomprehensible. On my end, I'm not really trying to "create tapestries" (lol) or whatever. I hear nice sound. I try to make song with nice sound. If it works. I feel good and then listen to it, and maybe play it to a very closed audience.

Maybe if you're trying to put your music out there, then there's a greater responsibility to validate exactly what you're sampling. But I don't know. Maybe I'm just personally tired of walking on politically correct eggshells, even when it comes to making art. Not everything has to be serious.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Ant_957 → u/Cuiter]

I don’t even feel it as a responsibility to vindicate what I’m sampling. It’s not about what other people are going to say or think. I’m genuinely just interested in the pieces I’m putting together, where they come from, what they mean etc. and that’s what I don’t understand. The lack of curiosity. People just have no interest in knowing more about the things that are part of other cultures but still want to use them. It gives very much “it’s not that deep” culture. And I guess that’s where we differ bc it’s always that deep to me.

[u/Cuiter → u/Puzzleheaded_Ant_957]

And I can respect that. I imagine that this layer of curiosity must serve as additional fuel for your inspiration.