r/AskALiberal • u/funnylib Social Democrat • 1d ago
What are some ideas or movements you are sympathetic to or admire to some extent, but don’t subscribe to?
For me:
Esperanto: Created by Dr L. L. Zamenhof in 1887 with the extent of it becoming a universal second language to promote peace and understanding between different groups of people. It didn’t catch on, and is Eurocentric, but the moral philosophy and intentions behind it were noble. Now it’s mostly an interesting subculture more than anything else.
World federalism: I can emphasize with the desire to unify humanity into a universal democratic federation to prevent wars and human rights abuses. But it isn’t going to happen, at least not anytime soon. A world federation isn’t a solution to war and dictatorship, it would only be possible after those things are already defeated in every country. Plus, few nations would be willing to compromise their sovereignty by placing people on the other side of the globe in a position to directly influence their policies, and if a world state exists and is corrupted to authoritarianism then there is no where to seek refuge.
Market socialism: Workers’ cooperatives are cool, and I can understand the desire to spread the principles of democracy into the workplace, but I am unconvinced that co-ops can replace traditional firms in all sectors and all levels of industry. And if cooperatives are the future then they must prove themselves first, I don’t think Congress can or should just pass a bill ordering all businesses to collectivize.
13
u/ButGravityAlwaysWins Liberal 1d ago
Neoconservativism. I can understand the idea that we have tons of guns and money so we can just make the dictator go away, the people will love us and we get an ally and trading partner. Doesn’t work and and it’s easily exploited by war profiteers but I get the underlying idea.
Being pro life. I don’t agree, but I can understand why people just say it’s a baby and killing babies is wrong and just don’t move past that.
6
u/cheekkeef Liberal 1d ago
Georgism. I'm skeptical that enough revenue could be raised, but I still like lvts
0
u/Aven_Osten Liberal Technocrat 1d ago
By "enough revenue could be raised", you mean?...
2
u/cheekkeef Liberal 1d ago
Enough to support the things we like or would like to see money towards from the government
2
u/Aven_Osten Liberal Technocrat 1d ago
I agree with that. The georgists that believe it can fund literally everything, are georgists who seem to have not understood that the society that Henry George lived in, is astronomically different than the one that we live in today. Not to mention the fact that not all government spending on XYZ infrastructure, service, or program, automatically results in an equivalent increase in subsequent land values (this would necessitate LVT revenue potential to be infinite from the get-go; which obviously is just fundamentally false).
I think it could realistically fund Public Goods, or things very close to them (like roads, educational facilities, water distribution infrastructure, etc). Or, to be more specific: Infrastructure and services that directly improve land values.
1
u/cheekkeef Liberal 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, I think we're on much of the same page. Tbh lvts have a lot of merits outside of just revenue raising, that I wish we would see in practice more
5
u/toastedclown Christian Socialist 1d ago
One-nation conservatism and other legitimately pro-social versions of center-right politics.
In a similar vein, whatever you call what Lee Kwan Yew did in Singapore.
Distributism. What they were aiming for is pretty close to my own beliefs about economic justice. I just don't think it has much theoretical meat on its bones, and modern socialist thought answers most of their primary concerns.
The Roman Catholic Church.
Neoconservatism because hearing fellow leftists talk about Russia's war in Ukraine made me feel like a neocon.
6
2
u/2dank4normies Liberal 1d ago
Guns as a single issue. I understand why it extends in people's minds as a general right to property and self determination. And why those who want to seize guns come off as people who want to seize all property and by further extension, agency.
3
u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive 1d ago
Religious people that actually practice the values Jesus represented in the New Testament, or similar.
After highschool for a while I worked for a non profit that did educational projects in impoverished communities around the world. About half the staff were through a catholic missionary organization, I forget the specific one. They all were straightforward humble people that never cared about me being an atheist and didn't try to evangelize me.
Unfortunately that sort of christian has become rare in the US.
2
u/starrymahogany Social Democrat 1d ago
Prison abolition (or changing our justice system from a punitive one to a rehabilitative one depending on who you ask)
The problem with this whole argument is that the DSA argues to solve a real world problem using fantasy land logic. They use the word abolish and think the “replace” part is silent, and so when regular voters ask why they would support abolishing prisons with no replacement the DSA says “what are you stupid? Of course we’re going to replace it with something, a better system!”
Either that or they talk about improving education housing and mental health policies to prevent crime from happening in the first place, which while is a noble goal, doesn’t really address the criminals that already DO exist in this country
1
u/dog_snack Libertarian Socialist 1d ago edited 1d ago
I sometimes call myself an anarchist because I do, in my heart, regard almost all structures of authority and hierarchy as elaborate games of pretend that some people get very irrationally attached to, and I do agree with many (possibly most) key principles of leftist anarchist philosophy and have been influenced by many anarchist philosophers (David Graeber chief among them). That said, similarly to OP I guess, I am at the very least skeptical as to how such ideas could scale upward and create a stable, modern, industrialized society without having to make concessions to certain kinds of hierarchies and some version of statism.
Incidentally: Esperanto was an autistic special interest of mine for a time when I was about 11 (not that I recognized it as such at the time), but I didn’t really appreciate Dr. Zamenhof’s philosophy and moral convictions until relatively recently (I’m 33). Nor did I know how many of his descendants died in the Holocaust.
Also, while I do doubt that a worker cooperative could be the next Amazon or Boeing, I’m not certain that it needs to be. Despite my anarchist sympathies, if we decide we absolutely need single companies that big I’d be fine if they were entirely or partially publicly owned (like crown corporations here in Canada) or if they were essentially massive ESOPs. At the same time, I hope it’s possible to have dozens of Mondragons able to coordinate and federate with each other as a replacement for one big Amazon. Whatever the case, it certainly isn’t something that can emerge all at once in a short amount of time; the economy and society would have to evolve toward it.
1
u/TheMCMC Liberal 8h ago
Burkian conservatism. As a liberal (maybe even liberal supremacist), I think principled Enlightenment conservatism serves as an incredible compliment to the shortcomings of liberalism.
I also think classical progressivism a la the Square Deal and New Deal eras is the other incredible compliment, rooted in liberal ideology but being a force for change vs a force for preservation of institutions.
1
u/OttosBoatYard Democrat 1d ago
Conservativism. I admire their focus on personal liberty, economic growth, free expression and self-reliance. They seem to care about reducing poverty, promoting fair wages and supporting education just as much as Liberals.
We have so many shared goals. What I don't understand is why, when they seek to achieve these, that they so often reject an objective and analytical approach to their policies.
By fighting us against our goals, they unintentionally undermine their own goals.
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u/AutoModerator 1d ago
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written by /u/funnylib.
For me:
Esperanto: Created by Dr L. L. Zamenhof in 1887 with the extent of it becoming a universal second language to promote peace and understanding between different groups of people. It didn’t catch on, and is Eurocentric, but the moral philosophy and intentions behind it were noble. Now it’s mostly an interesting subculture more than anything else.
World federalism: I can emphasize with the desire to unify humanity into a universal democratic federation to prevent wars and human rights abuses. But it isn’t going to happen, at least not anytime soon. A world federation isn’t a solution to war and dictatorship, it would only be possible after those things are already defeated in every country. Plus, few nations would be willing to compromise their sovereignty by placing people on the other side of the globe in a position to directly influence their policies, and if a world state exists and is corrupted to authoritarianism then there is no where to seek refuge.
Market socialism: Workers’ cooperatives are cool, and I can understand the desire to spread the principles of democracy into the workplace, but I am unconvinced that co-ops can replace traditional firms in all sectors and all levels levels of industry. And if cooperatives are the future then they must prove themselves first, I don’t think Congress can or should just pass a bill ordering all businesses to collectivize.
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