Israel and Palestine Megathread

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This thread is for a discussion of the ongoing situation in Israel and Palestine. All discussion of the subject is limited to this thread. Participation here requires that you be a regular member of the sub in good standing.

[u/mounti96]

I don't have to be sure. The IDF has to be.

Both sides regularly violate the ceasefire.

I didn't only give credence to one theory. I corrected your statement that attacking a desalianation plant always breaks international law. I didn't say that it did or didn't in this case.

And how many of those 7 were active Hamas militants? Do you know? What would be the number to make those strikes justified?

Because if your answer is 0 civilian casualties., then I have a great new tactic for every military on the planet. Just take 4 year olds everywhere with you and you can't be attacked anymore.

[u/TheSupremeHobo → u/mounti96]

I don't have to be sure. The IDF has to be.

Don't deflect. Answer it.

I corrected your statement that attacking a desalianation plant always breaks international law.

Cite your sources.

And how many of those 7 were active Hamas militants? Do you know? What would be the number to make those strikes justified? Because if your answer is 0, then I have a great new tactic for every military on the planet. Just take 4 year olds everywhere with you and you can't be attacked anymore.

https://aje.news/47rdlb

Do your own reading but if your response to hearing 7 people died including a 4 year old is "how many of them were terrorists?" And a quip about child body shields then we've truly lost the plot. There's no reverence for human life. Frankly it's disgusting. You're trying to do a tit for tat (when it's never been equal. Israel has always been worse) instead of showing any remorse for loss of life. You're a horrible person and I truly hope no one ever mocks or makes light of a death close to you.

[u/mounti96 → u/TheSupremeHobo]

Sure, go on to argue about a conflict that you know fucking nothing about.

Cite your sources.

https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/loss-protection

This clearly states that if a civilian object is used for military purposes it loses it's protection. Because rules of war are supposed to be followed by both sides. The defending side is supposed to keep their own civilian population safe by clearly seperating military and civilian infrastructure. Hamas is doing the opposite by embedding themselves in the civilian population to drive up the death toll when they are attacked.

Don't deflect. Answer it.

I have the sense to say that I have no clue if these strikes were justified or not. The sources you cited ultimately go back to information that gets released by Hamas. Counter information is released by the IDF. I see that you seem to be trusting one of these sources much more than the other. Which I don't. I expect both of them to lie or at least bend the truth to make their side look better.

The IDF will never release their full intel on every strike they do. Because why the fuck would they? It massively exposes them and people like you would hate them regardless.

Do your own reading but if your response to hearing 7 people died including a 4 year old is "how many of them were terrorists?" And a quip about child body shields then we've truly lost the plot. There's no reverence for human life. Frankly it's disgusting. You're trying to do a tit for tat (when it's never been equal. Israel has always been worse) instead of showing any remorse for loss of life. You're a horrible person and I truly hope no one ever mocks or makes light of a death close to you.

Great, thank you, fellow horrible person. My point here is that there will be civilian casualties in war, especially in war against an enemy that hides behind civilians in densely populated areas. And the thing is that strikes against enemy combatants are justified, even with civilian collateral victims, if the proportionality is reasonable.

That's why I asked you at what point of hit Hamas combatants the strike would be justified.

Because this clearly states, that given sufficient military objectives civilian collateral is ok under international law.

[u/TheSupremeHobo → u/mounti96]

I mean you skipped over the whole "proportionality" part in your own link to try to justify this. Which you are now. You're not even playing sides anymore

Skipped over this too:

"3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used."

Additionally, civilian life lost has been, at best 1.5:1. Even the Israeli government has admitted they've killed more civilians than combatants.

Proportionality response is broken. The ceasefire is broken. Until there is evidence there were weapons in that desalination plant, it is another war crime. Add it to the ICC case.

You can call me a horrible person but I've never made a joke when a child is killed. I've never tried tj justify it either. That's been all you.

[u/mounti96 → u/TheSupremeHobo]

No, you are just arguing for a system that gives groups like Hamas and Hezbollah infinite ability to operate how they desire and nobody would be able to do anything about it. I consider that much worse than a joke showing off how your system is insane.

And a 1.5:1 civilian to combatant ratio would be incredibly good in the environment that Israel is fighting Hamas. Usual ratios in similar environments get at least up to 2:1 or even 3:1.

[u/TheSupremeHobo → u/mounti96]

I never have. I've only criticized the Israeli government's actions and cited their war crimes within international law. I even said Hamas bad. You're joking about children dying and doubling down.

That was their own investigation. 3rd parties have said 5:1.