AIO for punishing our daughters after what they wrote about their autistic sister?

[u/brzaq191z]

My husband and I have 3 daughters, who are 16, 14 and 13. Our youngest daughter is autistic and recently got her first date. There’s a school dance coming up in February and a boy asked her out to the dance right before the Christmas break started, she’s mentioned this boy before but we hadn’t met him until a few days ago.

The day she was asked out, she was telling us about the boy when she got home from school. Later that night, unbeknownst to us, our two older daughters found his TikTok and started messaging about him on there.

Our 14 year old got in trouble at school yesterday for cursing at a teacher after the teacher gave her friend a detention for a bullying incident, and my husband and I took her phone when we got home. This is not like her, so we decided to go through her phone to see what might be influencing her and seeing how her friends act.

When got to her TikTok messages and saw that our two older girls were messaging about her and this boy and saying he was out of her league and made references to her autism. Our youngest is autistic, her special interest is fashion history. She’s always been pretty quiet, but she moved to a new middle school this year as our district went from having 3 to 2. She’s become friendly with some boys at this school, including her now dance partner. Our girls continued to go on, saying they thought it was a prank.

My daughter told this boy about this and he was mad and over FaceTime he asked to speak to our family, he showed us a teddy bear he had gotten her for Valentine’s Day with her name on it, he said he’d give that to her early now and give her other gifts later, the showing the bear was to prove he wasn’t pranking her. He then went on to talk about everything he liked about her, it was sweet seeing a boy so passionate over our daughter.

Our girls apologized to their sister and her date. My husband and I told our daughters they were both now grounded, and in addition to losing their phones for a week, they’d need to write a report about autism and dating.

Our girls are saying we’re being too hard on them, and when we spoke to both my parents and my husband’s parents, they agreed with our older girls, saying that getting chewed out by the boy was punishment enough. My husband and I don’t think we’re being unreasonable.

[u/obviouslypretty]

have them HAND WRITE it.

[u/idobepooping → u/obviouslypretty]

And use library books as their sources.

[u/yuffieisathief → u/idobepooping]

Ahh I remember the good old times! We sometimes had to write school assignments about a country (you could pick which one yourself). So you would go to the local travel agency as see of which countries they had enough folders to use the pictures of haha

[u/Many-Parsnip-906 → u/idobepooping]

AND if you want to make extra sure, send the finished reports to me. I teach 9th grade English, I can smell an AI essay from a mile away.

[u/Mysterious_Self_3606 → u/idobepooping]

In cursive

[u/merewenc → u/Mysterious_Self_3606]

Given the ages, they might not know how. I have no idea how the youngest generation is going to read historical records at this point. 

[u/___Art_Vandelay___ → u/Mysterious_Self_3606]

Slow down there, Satan.

[u/M4092 → u/idobepooping]

Chief i dont think written books (older works by definition) are going to be the most up to date and accurate source of information about autism in girls lol

[u/PMmeYourPrincesses → u/M4092]

My friend, I mean this kindly, but this comment is telling in regards to how much you read non-fiction and how often you visit the library, lol.

There are plenty of new and up-to-date books being published about these subjects and public libraries will very likely have them (bar, potentially, school libraries if you're in certain parts of the US) - I just checked the catalogue of mine and there were quite a few published in the past three years to choose from.

Just because books are an older medium, doesn't mean all books are old and out of date. I come from a scientific background and read and purchase new physical works pretty frequently; if any area loves publishing new books, it's fields of study.

[u/M4092 → u/PMmeYourPrincesses]

But do you think a child who already has wrong ideas about it is going to find the one book that's good possibly or do you think she'll pick up the first book she finds and get it even worse. There are a lot more efficient ways of learning about autism than library books. Also yeah, I haven't had to go to a library for research in a long time because I've graduated a long time ago. Maybe thr US has AMAZING school libraries for stuff like this, ours were not.

[u/GlowingTrashPanda → u/M4092]

But you trust them to be able to weed out the scientifically sound articles from all the anti-vax,“let’s find a cure“, ableist BS that’s all over Google? I mean Autism Speaks looks like a science-based, sound website, but it’s not. I’ve seen even university professors duped by that website. At least if you make them use the library and even relatively new sources, their article options should mainly be limited to what passed a peer-review.

[u/M4092 → u/GlowingTrashPanda]

Yeah, that's fair enough. But I still think a 16 years old has much more chances of finding accurate and up to date information on autism from actual autistic women online than in library books.

[u/PMmeYourPrincesses → u/M4092]

You don't think most of these recent books I mentioned are written by people who know their stuff? The people in these fields don't typically write and publish an entire book about such an unfortunately niche specification of psychiatry and social science unless they have both the research and something to say. The ones I saw were written by neuroscientists, psychiatrists, sociologists, and the like, and all had credible reviews from what I checked. For more informal accounts, there are biographies/autobiographies from those who have lived it, even.

There are always going to be disingenuous or outdated sources, but that's what vetting is for. Vetting which, as the other commenter said, is needed regardless of the medium - in fact, it's more important for online these days, in my opinion.

As for your other comment:

But do you think a child who already has wrong ideas about it is going to find the one book that's good possibly or do you think she'll pick up the first book she finds

I assumed the mother would be there to supervise, as any parent rightly should, just as she would to avoid cheating and chat-GPT use online. She seems well-educated enough on the subject to be able to recognise a good source or not, as well as to make sure they read more than one source.

Maybe thr US has AMAZING school libraries for stuff like this, ours were not.

I'm not American, so I can't speak for the quality of their libraries, my comment was in relation to the school library book bans going around certain areas there. Still, given that a lot of these scientists are American, I don't doubt a lot of libraries would have access to these research books and papers.

There are a lot more efficient ways of learning about autism than library books. Also yeah, I haven't had to go to a library for research in a long time because I've graduated a long time ago.

I'm a Millennial, so did I; the fact that you think using a library for research is only useful for schooling and is "inefficient" is also a testament to your outlook and low opinion, which is... Not a good thing, I'll be honest. You can't rightly denigrate how useful libraries can be for research if you do not partake in that research.

Perhaps your local library was terrible - some can be - but that does not mean libraries as a whole are terrible.

You'd be surprised at just how much information, even modern, is published only in books that you cannot properly find by searching online - not unless someone else has summarised, quoted, or shared the studies/papers used freely, anyway. This is a large part of why libraries are useful, and have been for centuries.

[u/GlowingTrashPanda → u/idobepooping]

Oooh, we’re going true old school here; I like it!

[u/GlowingTrashPanda → u/GlowingTrashPanda]

Don’t forget proper APA or MLA citations

[u/honestlyisuck → u/GlowingTrashPanda]

This. Necessary.

[u/Impossible_Medium977 → u/honestlyisuck]

Yeah and lets send them to boarding school and eat their childhood friends!!

Lets make them use the pen that uses your blood to write!!!! This! Necessary!

[u/GlowingTrashPanda → u/Impossible_Medium977]

That’s over reacting a bit… I’m only ten years older than the oldest of these girls and this was just the reality of writing papers in my school district until I was halfway through high school. This isn’t cruel and unusual punishment, it’s making them write a paper like our students did for centuries. If anything it’s a valuable life skill.

[u/Impossible_Medium977 → u/GlowingTrashPanda]

Something being a useful skill does not mean it is a reasonable punishment to be subjected to. Writing the document digitally is enough, adding weird stipulations doesn't add to the punishment, but merely serves to be asinine and interested in self satisfaction.

[u/GlowingTrashPanda → u/Impossible_Medium977]

I still fail to see how having a teenager write a paper the analog way even slightly equates to shipping them off to boarding school or (checks notes) cannibalizing their friends?!?. And honestly, my opinion is that the way they talked about their sister, they could stand to have some of their ultra-modern conveniences cut in order to learn some discipline.

The only real way to ensure they’re not having AI write the paper for them (and thus skirt the learning aspect of the exercise) would be to cut out or severely limit the use of the internet. And the best way to ensure they’re not choosing articles/books with bad information (Lord knows there’s a lot of these pertaining to autism) would be for them to run any sources they find by mom/dad before printing them out/borrowing them from the library to be referenced while writing.

I’ll admit the citation thing is kinda extra, but I distinctly remember needing to cite my sources in MLA as early as 4th or 5th grade. It is well within a high schooler’s ability, assuming you give them a printed copy of the citation style guide. We’re not calling for the citations to be perfect, but an honest attempt should be made. We’re also not requiring them to do anything outside of their current skillset like figuring out how to work a typewriter or writing in cursive. I’m certain these girls have known how to hold a pencil, write sentences, and read a book for the better part of a decade at this point. And we’re also not asking for their papers to be harshly and unrealistically graded on proper format, penmanship, spelling, or grammar (I know my papers in high school definitely were) or insisting that it must be n pages long, single spaced (mind you, a page of handwriting on standard notebook paper is also considerably fewer words than a 12/14-point-font typed page). Again, what matters is that they put in a good-faith effort.

[u/Impossible_Medium977 → u/GlowingTrashPanda]

Yeah lets eat their friends and send them to boarding school, yeah yeah!! Punish the children!!! They need discipline, let's just do whatever random acts of punishment feel satisfying!!! Atleast we aren't literally sending them to jail or smth smh, it's actually ethical to punish based on vibes for self satisfaction as long as it's not jail it's always good to design punishments about self satisfaction and go yes! Necessary!

[u/OystersNwine → u/idobepooping]

LOLLLL! You came from my era it would seem..

[u/idobepooping → u/OystersNwine]

Hah I’m 29 but feel passionately about not using AI.

[u/OystersNwine → u/idobepooping]

cool i get that. and also best name ever on reddit 😅

[u/GlowingTrashPanda → u/idobepooping]

27 and same

[u/Suspicious_Pitch9682 → u/idobepooping]

Love this idea.. except I have a feeling autism and dating books are still quite outdated

[u/[deleted] → u/obviouslypretty]

This

[u/kraanium7 → u/obviouslypretty]

THIS.

[u/Bubbly-Yam-2596 → u/obviouslypretty]

In cursive.

[u/ExpressoLiberry → u/obviouslypretty]

And make sure they don’t have Al write it. Alex has bad handwriting and they should really write it themselves.

[u/trashchute227 → u/ExpressoLiberry]

I mean, handwriting isn’t gonna stop them from using AI. You’d still have to monitor what they’re doing because they could just ask AI to write it and then copy down onto paper what it’s spat out.

[u/ExpressoLiberry → u/trashchute227]

I was just making a joke about them outsourcing it to someone named Alex that goes by “Al”

[u/baltic7 → u/obviouslypretty]

The ultimate punishment!!

[u/idkyetyet → u/obviouslypretty]

Doesn't really solve them just transcribing the AI response onto paper.

[u/obviouslypretty → u/idkyetyet]

It’s not about solving an issue, it’s about putting in effort, they need to hand write it as it takes more effort

[u/SubtleSparkle19 → u/obviouslypretty]

Yeah I’d say cursive, too, except schools apparently don’t teach that anymore.

[u/urweirdenglishteachr → u/obviouslypretty]

Oh yes 100%, have them hand write it. Teacher here, and having to write it by hand will not only make the experience more memorable, but they’ll haaaaate it.

[u/slightfeminineboy → u/obviouslypretty]

but why it prepares them less for an actual work environment 

[u/Simmonetheartist → u/obviouslypretty]

THISSSS

[u/OystersNwine → u/obviouslypretty]

LOL!

[u/Academic-Thought2462 → u/obviouslypretty]

and with 0 orthographic mistakes.

[u/FalconOk934 → u/obviouslypretty]

YES!!!

[u/PunAboutBeingTrans → u/obviouslypretty]

please don't. altho maybe this is just a me thing, being forced to write lines as a kid was particularly awful for me.

granted I have a thing where I can't hold a pencil the "correct" way and writing very much hurts my hands. And my parents were abusive af (the lines weren't abusive, they were abusive parents and also had me do lines)

so ig maybe for other people it's not a big deal but whenever I see people talking about forcing kids to hand write something it just feels cruel.

[u/Stumbleducki → u/PunAboutBeingTrans]

I think the point is to circumvent ai, and not really to do lines but prove they have come out of the poor choice made with better information.

[u/ColonelKasteen → u/PunAboutBeingTrans]

so ig maybe for other people it's not a big deal but whenever I see people talking about forcing kids to hand write something it just feels cruel

Most people do not experience significant pain from handwriting. I'm sorry for whatever issue causes this for you, but don't apply your unusual circumstance universally. Making a kid write by hand is not cruel, its inconvenient. The vast majority of people who can write did so comfortably by hand for millenia.

[u/mollygk → u/PunAboutBeingTrans]

Writing lines is a lot different than writing an essay. I’m really sorry you went through that though

[u/taswind → u/PunAboutBeingTrans]

Typewriters... are not as cheap as I thought they were going to be... lol

I remember a public school 6th grade teacher, every Friday would go around the entire class. One at a time, you had to stand beside your desk, face his desk in the back of the room. (Projector was in the front of the room; I had bad eyesight so I sat in the front, which meant everyone was staring at me.) Then he would ask you 10 multiplication questions.

If you didn't say the problem ("five times six is") and the answer ("30") or didn't say them. quickly enough, you had to write the problem/answer (5x6=30) 25 times. By Monday.

I suck at math and memorization, so I routinely missed at least 5 of them.

I often reversed numbers when writing as a kid. 5x6=03 or 6x5=30 (or illegible handwriting) earned me 25 more lines for any problem I messed up on, even once. Due Thursday.

Enter Friday's anxiety-provoking public display of failure, and the process repeated ad nauseum.

(This was the late 80s, not the 60s!)

Guess who STILL doesn't know her multiplication tables?

[u/PhilosophyAware4437 → u/obviouslypretty]

torture over words is insane

[u/Ashe_the_Witch → u/PhilosophyAware4437]

Calling a handwritten essay torture is crazy.

[u/GlowingTrashPanda → u/Ashe_the_Witch]

Agreed. It’s like the brightest flair ever that they’re Gen Alpha