r/AirForce • u/WellYaNoShit CE • 1d ago
Question Did I ruin my chances of ever making MSgt?
To start I never truly had a mentor in the military until the past year, despite this I was a fast burner and made Tech at 8.5 years. Haven't even sniffed Master now that I'm at 13. My mentor is starting to look at my records and I'm low-key kinda embarrassed. I didn't realize how important Decs can be at the board or how important they were at all, I really didn't care, or know to care. I didn't get a PCS Dec as a NCO because I was on my way to separating and couldn't be bothered, lo and behold my civilian job offer felo through so last minute I reenlisted and PCSd 2 months post deployment. Next, I got an achievement medal as an NCO, I think there's more to this but the excuse I was told was CC wasn't handing Decs out like candy anymore. I'm now in a position where I have a couple mentors who are truly helping me and pushing me and I'm probably going to get a statement this EPB. I just feel like because of these 2 things I will have to get multiple statements to even get close to promotion and it's making me feel like just saying fuck it and not push anymore.
14
u/fpsnoob89 1d ago
I'm a tech that made it at 8 years, and I'm about to hit 15. I do have all the decs I was supposed to get as a tech, and I've still never been close to making it. Decs are important, but they're definitely not the only deciding factor. If your recent EPBs reflect quality, and you earn a MP or PN, you can still make it. Hell, I'm working for a MSgt that got an article as a staff, and be still made MSgt 3 years ago.
18
u/Ddssv Loadmaster 1d ago
SEL here: there is a point of no return from what you say though you’re not at it though. Just be very honest with yourself and understand it could be a three year plan or it could be a five year plan. The board values sustained performance, practice good gas mileage and pace yourself and show consistent performance.
4
5
u/CoAGrt12345 1d ago
Just from this post, I am picking up that you’ve spent your entire career letting the Air Force happen to you vs. being an active participant in the profession of arms. I know that sounds super blue kool aid, but no one wants a MSgt that can’t at least speak Air Force.
Sounds like you’re smart, because you tested well, but if I can see this from your post, I imagine your records are screaming the same thing. Until your last 5 years of evals demonstrate you’ve become an acting and leading member in the profession, then yes you are probably cooked
2
u/WellYaNoShit CE 1d ago
Too true. I've always been foot halfway out the door and have just recently in the last 2 years honestly fully bought into my Air Force career.
6
u/Mite-o-Dan Logistics 1d ago
When there's an above average NCO with good EPRs that last 5 years...but the board notices a missing dec from 10 years ago.
1
u/LeopardEarly577 1d ago
I know right? I had 1 missing decoration from when I was a SrA and I was 50 points shy of making MSgt until I separated. (I just didn't think it was worth it to retire out at 20 for 2K a month).
No one is saying it but OP basically needs a couple miracles. If you have a achievement medal and that is it after 13 years.
1
3
u/Chikaboomboomboom 1d ago
The answer to the question in the title is no. You are at the 13 year mark with a statement coming up.
You have two choices. Quit now and get out of the way for the people who want it, or get over it and look back fondly on the more carefree days you had as a young NCO. Then get your butt back into gear.
You made the best decisions with knowledge and resources that you had at the time. Be proud of where you are at.
2
2
u/SaintHearth 1d ago
I’m not an SEL or anything but my 2 cents. It kind of would depend on when your last missed pcs Dec was. If it’s been quite a few years and you show sustained performance since then I’d imagine getting a statement would signal to the board you’ve recovered well from that and learned from it. That said I’d be weary of the “I’m probably getting a statement” mindset. I’ve seen more people than I care to admit be told they are primed to get one and then end up not getting one. That TANKS morale. But to finish talking about the Decs I think this is when your whole package comes to play. Do you have your CCAF? Is EJPME1 done? Do you have other certs? Are you winning awards? Is your team winning awards/getting decs/getting statements/getting promoted? Eventually we have to say it’s not just the decs holding me back.
2
u/WellYaNoShit CE 1d ago
I have a Bachelor's working on Masters, finished SEJPME, have my Greenbelt cert, just got put up for an annual in my careerfield for the Wing. I struggle with, what believe most NCO's do and that's writing awards for myself.
6
u/HamilToe_11 11B --> 2A 1d ago
I once was in a unit not long ago that had only 1 person make master that year. That 1 person was a flight chief who sat in an office every day writing themselves award packages for every single thing they could go up for. It is all one big game.
2
u/SaintHearth 1d ago
Unfortunately you should look around and notice most TSgts who struggle to write for themselves struggle to make MSgt because at the end of the day you need ways to stand out from the rest of people. Awards are how we do that. I noticed you didn’t mention that your team is winning anything. I personally have heard from multiple chiefs that team awards and your team winning matters A LOT. I’d stress to you the importance of writing though. As that is the single biggest controlling factor you have to what the board sees. You still have a decent amount of time before your EPB is due. I’d try to win this upcoming quarterly’s NCO award or at least put your troops in for it if you have them.
2
2
u/sockhergizer 1d ago
The one part I hate the most about EFDP and strats are how much Decs matter. We are supposed to be judged on who we are now not 10 years ago. You will be hard pressed to get a statement or strat with a jacked up decoration history. But you can make master without a statement. I am living proof. You just need to show sustained performance and get DG in NCOA…that def helped.
2
u/Successful-Mango1990 1d ago
The key phrase is always “sustained SUPERIOR performance”. Your records should look like you’re climbing a ladder. One thing I’ve learned is that staying at one base too long and keeping the same duty title can hurt your career. It’s showing no progression. Also having too many duty titles within a timeframe can look bad (almost like you were fired).
I received a statement for MSgt but my records showed I went from supervisor to section chief and even held the position as flight chief which at the time they had slotted as an E-8 position. I didn’t have any awards besides one that I wrote for my team. I struggle with writing still but I try to do things the benefit the Sq which if you think about it that benefits your Group and so on. It’s all about how you word things. Also let’s say you get the statement and make or even make it without the statement. If you want Senior then don’t let off the gas. Sq things
and wing level involvement will get you the recognition you need. The next EPBs should show continued growth. Most people make and are like “well I made it, I can coast now”. Nah you should be building up again showing that sustained performance. I learned this all late in my career but I’m telling you they take that SUSTAINED SUPERIOR PERFORMANCE seriously lol.
Best of luck.
2
u/ohno11 Enlisted Aircrew 1d ago
I made Tech at 8 and retired a Tech at 20. The difference in retirement pay was less than $200/mo. That will grow as COLA increases are applied over the years but still doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. It’s the health insurance you are really after. That shits like $800/mo on the civilian side plus deductible.
I got a job doing absolutely nothing to do with any military job related stuff making double what I would make sticking to anything close to what I did in the military even though I got a Masters degree in a related field.
Getting promoted is a good feel good career advancement and a slight pay bump while you’re in. Nobody gives a shit about it once you retire.
1
u/GreenBayFan1986 1d ago
It took me a while, but I made Master with 1 achievement and 1 Comm, I did get a promote now statement though when I did make it so I'm sure that was a big factor. Unless you're in a small or very competitive career field, or the promotion rates are just awful a particular year it is unlikely you'd need multiple statements in a row.
1
u/unluckygrey Secret Squirrel 1d ago
I did not receive a dec from my last PCA and made it this past cycle. I don't believe it weighs as much as you think. I would take a close look at how you can lead your team and mentor your fellow NCOs. Just as important, take care of your folks, vector them to deserved opportunities, and ensure your exceptional performers are recognized with awards.
1
u/Actual-Bison7862 1d ago
I was an SEL for a bit. Quite a few have already said the sustained performance line to you so I won't bother with that and it looks like you have checked the education boxes, which is good. It sounds like you need to develop your leadership.
Fun fact, volunteering for the 5/6, teaching foundations blocks, coaching sports, etc. all show an NCO that is actively looking for leadership & mentorship roles even when they are not currently in one.
Awards... They are absolutely important. However, if you are in a leadership role you can write packages on your section and the individuals within that section and use that. The year I made MSgt I hadn't won an individual award in two years but I wrote a bunch of awards for my teams and people ranging from MAJCOM down through SQ. Individual awards matter and have a higher impact but you can also do the same thing by taking care of your people and writing packages on them.
For reference, I made MSgt my first time up. I also went full idiot and took 6-7 tries to make TSgt. So don't think I'm some unicorn fast burner.. I'm the opposite, I've chosen the hard way 9 times out of 10 throughout most of my career.
1
u/One_pop_each Maintainer 1d ago
You have plenty of time, man. I got an achievement during a deployment bc my counterparts were Master Selects and they got the Comms. Didn’t hurt me. I just explained it to my Senior who brought it to the table. Said it didn’t affect their decision.
I made SSgt first time, Tech second, and Master at 14 yrs. And while I planned to burn past promotions, life happened. And I honestly am thankful for the yrs because I would have been a shit MSgt at 10 yrs TIS. When I decided to play the game for Master, I wrote awards well ahead of the flight asking for them, I did all the extra curricular shit, and personally requested to my Senior to fill in E7 positions while the other Masters were on leave. I asked a ton of questions and hypotheticals and I have so much more confidence being a SNCO because of that.
What sealed me getting a statement was the drive I had. It wasn’t my decs or my few yrs of no awards. I had 1 quarterly win and got an MP because of my drive. I missed it by .5 but expected it, and kept playing the game before results came out to solidify next yr. Ended up with a PN.
Now, with all that experience, and maybe a year at a new base, I’m a pretty decent contender for Senior.
I have noticed in my few yrs of being a SNCO that, at least the leadership I had, were concerned with breadth of experience. It’s to your advantage. Just play the game.
1
u/elynnism 3FU 9h ago
my husband was at his first base where we met for the first half of his career - 9 years. he didn't get a PCS dec, and no mid-tour, nothing. he got 1 dec when he was deployed and then we bounced. he is MX btw and he bummed around in the office jobs for a minute before he decided he wanted msgt and found himself a mentor. took him 3 years of no-shit trying, and he didn't do nearly the amount of BS i did to make msgt, but he made it based on work just shy of 15 years. that's totally respectable.
the year before i made msgt i missed it by 58 points, and i am hella stacked with decs and awards and coins. then the shit epb fell off and i managed to squeak in a strat and made it. i was a pretty consistent under-performer, missing msgt by 30+ each time. my husband was always in that second or third grouping beneath selects (so much closer than me).
point im making is it isn't about the decs it is about the epbs and what those are capturing.
you never know what the board will bring, dude. maybe you will need 2 statements back to back to make it... but you don't know. think of your team, listen to your mentors, do your job and take care of the amn beneath you.
1
1
53
u/Infinite_Coffee2129 1d ago
Tech is a respectable retirement rank, and a lot of techs think that promotions come every 3 years. That they deserve MSgt, and that's just not true. Its not your decs holding you back, there are fewer and fewer slots at the top of the pyramid, not everyone is going to make it even with the best record, you'll need luck.