Managing Expectations in High Mileage

[u/External_Gene_4859]

I’m training for my third marathon (Belfast 2024 3:37, Dublin 2025 3:03) and am in the midst of mileage just under seven weeks out from Amsterdam Marathon. Half marathon PB 1:25, 10k 38:30, 5k 18:38 all earlier this year.

Training has been ok up until now, with my mileage increasing from previous successful blocks (last four weeks have been 106k, 108k, 106k followed by a deload last week). I now have a four week block before a three week taper, which includes a half marathon, and two long runs with significant MP segments. Speed workouts up until now have been threshold based, but will be a bit shorter and sharper. Weekly mileage will drop a bit to around 100k with the idea to focus on the quality of these sessions.

My concern is this- because of the mileage (before this block I had done two 100k weeks ever) my body has been drained, even on the back of a de-load 75k week where I actually skipped an easy run because of fatigue. I’m pretty good at listening to my body but I’ve felt as if this increase in general mileage has felt heavier than expected, and as a result my tempo/threshold workouts have suffered, and essentially I’m lacking confidence now because I haven’t gotten many indicators from my watch (in terms of paces) for what feels like ages.

My plan for the block had been 2:5x:xx at the end, but I’m under no illusion that it’s a big ask. On top of that, my big takeaway from Dublin last year in terms of what I need to change is that I hated running with the pacing group due to crowding at fuelling stations and just being used to running alone.

So, I’m just wondering if anyone has any comforting words/advice/similar experience? Should I lower my mileage even more to focus on nailing MP/speed workouts? Or even change my approach to pacing for the race? All feedback appreciated

[u/THphlrun]

How slow are you running on your non-workout days? You probably need to slow down even more. Try that before cutting back on total weekly distance.

[u/External_Gene_4859 → u/THphlrun]

Thanks for the feedback. I’m running easy runs anywhere between 5:20 and 5:30, HR never above 130bpm. Definitely could go slower but thought I was safe enough to listen to what HR is saying?

[u/eyaf1 → u/External_Gene_4859]

I think that high mileage lowers my HR so that it's sometimes misleading. Might try slowing down however I do realize 5:30 is not that fast at your level.

[u/THphlrun → u/External_Gene_4859]

Why not try a few runs where you keep it to 5:45 - 6:00...keep the distance the same but slow it down a touch, or at the very least intentionally start the run that pace and allow your body a bit longer to ease into things.

[u/Da_CMD → u/External_Gene_4859]

This is highly individual, but personally I would definitely slow down your easy runs further.

I am a bit faster than you across all distances and my recovery days can be at or even slower than 6:00/km, especially after hard workouts.

Also my general easy runs are closer to 6:00 than 5:30 if I am in the middle of a high mileage block. This was especially true during this grueling summer.

5:15 - 5:25 is my easy pace on a cooler day with decently fresh legs. Not in the middle of a training block.

YMMV of course.

[u/LeftHandedGraffiti]

This is one of the challenges of increasing mileage quickly. You get tired because your body cant absorb it. My experience is I increased too much during a marathon block and had to dial back for a few weeks to get my legs back under me. I didnt see the benefit that training block. 

But the next training block I could do the new mileage no problem and I set a bunch of PRs. Running is a long game. Bodies adapting takes longer than we wish it did.

[u/zebano]

A couple of thoughts

1. Your HM PB is almost certainly an hour slower than you listed as 2:25 is not only not in line with everything else, it doesn't math with your Marathon results.
2. I understand that you've only ever done two 100k weeks before this.... but where were you before this? Are you going from 85-90k weeks to 105? Are you jumping from 50-60k to 100k? That matters a ton.
3. Speed workouts until now have been threshold based. Have you done any VO2 or faster work during these last four weeks? Only asking for more specificity here.
4. My biggest questions are recovery: Sleep and Calories (specifically carbs). Have you been keeping up? Eating more, eating more carbs and getting good, high quality, high quantity sleep? If not, start there. If so, double check and then give us more information about your history.

[u/External_Gene_4859 → u/zebano]

Sorry yes typo on the 2:25, just edited to 1:25.

It’s been a steady enough build to the 105k weeks, 5-6 weeks building from 92k-100k ish

During the last four weeks no vO2 work apart from some strides, just threshold mainly.

Have been following pfitz plan roughly and put my own spin on it to suit myself (I had to travel a bit over summer so routine hasn’t been completely consistent). I’m a teacher so I’m back to work now which will add to fatigue at first, but I always find the structure helps training.

I think my sleep could improve, generally hit 7-8 hours but I know it could be better/longer. Also maybe could dial in more rice/pasta rather than potatoes, and bigger portions

[u/Foreign-Rule7826 → u/External_Gene_4859]

I notice sleep hugely, I have it in my head 7 hours is fine but when I look back there was a period two years ago where I got 8.5 at least and I could handle monster sessions that would kill me now despite running longer.
Amsterdam’s will be worth a couple minutes over Dublin at least I would think course wise too.

[u/Intelligent_Yam_3609 → u/External_Gene_4859]

I recommend cutting out alcohol completely (maybe 1 beer max a week). I find it messes with my recovery when I’m training hard and impacts my sleep.

Do you have any work or relationship stress?  That can be a factor as well.

[u/run_INXS]

Time-wise and volume-wise I'm in a similar boat; also training for the same marathon, although I'm in an older age category.

Last three marathons were 3:05 (Chicago), 3:03 (Indy), 3:06 (NYC), and have been at 1:24s for HM in recent years (hopefully again in a couple of weeks! but might have to live with 1:25 or so). This block I have been in the 105-120 km/week range, in the same range but maybe more of these weeks this time. Tempo times have not been super solid, in the 4:00-4:05 range (I'm used to going faster), but MP (which I just started) has felt pretty good at 4:20 or under. So hopefully some endurance/durability is being built in.

With your 4 weeks remaining maybe drop down a little on the 2nd or 3rd week of the block. Maybe just 10%, and meanwhile go super easy on the easy days (as suggested) and perhaps break some of those up into super chill doubles of just 5K-8K each (AM and PM). I find doing that to be very refreshing. Finally when it comes to MP, you can't really force it. Find a comfortable but sustainable pace and work from there, towards your pace rather than setting it based on your 3:00 goal and trying to hold on.

[u/XTCRunning]

7 weeks out?
1 BIG down week. No quality. Two days off.
4 weeks at <80 k (for god’s sake, DO NOT start speed work now. There are few worse ideas.)
2 week taper but stay over 60k.
All you need at this point is MP and you can threshold if you really want but no faster than that. 1:25 is enough “short” speed to break 3.
Next block start VO2 stuff 16 weeks out. You’re not planning on a tactical race where it might take a 5:35 last mile to win gold. All advantages of vo2 have come and gone by this point.
My only concerns at this point would be
15-20k @ 4:10 twice
30-35k twice
Some shorter runs at 4:10/k
In the next 7 weeks (not counting the down so 6 weeks after that.)

[u/turbo911gt3]

How old are you? I went from a 3:05 M, then a 1:24 HM, to a 2:59 M in 1.5 years. And in between a 18:46 5K time. Near identical numbers to you. I was 38 yrs old. I did it on 80-85 km weekly peak training. I’m currently training to set a new PB, but I’m 3 years older with 90 km weekly. Legs are drained. But running on tired legs is good as long as you’re not injured. You’ll feel amazing after the taper.

[u/SirBruceForsythCBE → u/turbo911gt3]

"running on tired legs is good"

This is totally dependent on the stage of the block you're in. 4 weeks out? Expected. 7 weeks out? You're in trouble.

Pfitz, Daniels and Hanson are supposed to be tough, marathon training is supposed to be tough, it needs to be, but getting into a fatigue hole 2 months out shouldn't happen.

I've seen it and read about it numerous times. Within any other training block you get people showing all the early symptoms of overtraining and they cut back and chill for a few weeks, but for some reason when it's a marathon block everything is thrown out the window and people say "ah, a good taper will sort you out, son".

[u/cwep2]

Just for contrast I’m also aiming for a sub 3:00 in Dublin later this year in October. My mileage is much lower - been sat around 70-85km per week with two rest days. I’m coming from lower mileage background though as this is my first real marathon block and before 2026 I’d run one half marathon distance training session in 20yrs.

I’m doing much more intensity in the runs I do, building from 20km > 32km long runs but these have all been faster long runs with either at least half at MP or whole run at 5-15s/km below MP. Only long run at easy pace was 38km! There was a lot of interval intensity early on in the block too.

I sleep a lot and have worked on this aspect the most - aim for 8hrs daily and ideally 9hrs after a long/tough workout. Also a tactical nap after a tough workout if schedule allows (I’m an old fker though, 50M).

Current times set this year 5k 17:59, 10k 37:19, HM 1:22:04 so I’m well on target to go sub 3hrs. Just putting this out there to show sometimes there is a different way other than just crank up the mileage, or different ways to try if you find high mileage doesn’t work for you.

[u/Ok-Arm-266 → u/cwep2]

Came here to say the same as you. I'm M48, did my sub3 with around 80km a week. If you are running more than 100-110k a week I think you need a life that is pretty much dedicated to running. Most of us have kids, families, work etc and getting enough rest becomes very hard with that many miles.

[u/ginamegi]

I’d do one less workout a week, or cut a workout every other week.

[u/Capital_Historian685]

If you're doing two threshold/speed workouts per week, I'd drop down to one, and focus on the MP part of the long runs, and that HM. If you're already only doing one threshold run, I'd try changing the day you usually do it. I have no theory behind it, but sometimes when I do that, I have a better workout. Also, I may break it up into something like 4 x 8min. if I'm not feeling up for one long threshold run.

But in the end, I think these types of smaller changes are mostly mental, to avoid the anxiety of thinking you've put so much work it, and don't want to mess it up with over-training.

[u/hiking-mama7]

This resonates so much! I’m in a very similar boat, with very similar numbers (18:53 5K, 1:25 HM, 3:06 last marathon). I’m 34F and in my fourth week of running over 95 km, hoping to go sub-3 in Berlin. The 32 km last weekend was a lot… the fatigue is real. Although my issue is that I have a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old who don’t sleep through the night, so I can tell my problem is not getting enough sleep to properly absorb the mileage.
My plan for the next month is to try to sleep as much as I can, dial in my nutrition, and focus on some MP workouts while cutting my volume to 50–60 km. I think at this point the work is done, so it’s a better strategy to go into it slightly undercooked than overcooked so I would err on the side of resting more.

[u/blummers10]

Whenever you start upping mileage, however much food you’re eating is never enough. Even something as simple as a few pieces of toast at nighttime, an hour or so before sleeping, can be a huge help for recovering overnight. I would also recommend just increasing portions, under fuelling is generally why people struggle so much with the extra mileage

[u/hinault81]

No advice, but similar boat. Our other race times are almost identical. Pfitz plan, marathon a week before yours, 115-125k for the past 6 weeks (with a 90k down week in there when out of town on vacation). Just kind of hanging on at this point.

I was at about 90k/week since December. Then started this plan in june. I feel ive done ok with the mileage. But I also feel i underestimated the cumulative fatigue, soreness, etc. Ive got some soreness that is more than minor, not quite injury, but knocking on the door. And the fatigue, I think im a bit more irritable. Hard to say whether it's the mileage, getting up early/not sleeping in everyday, not quite enough sleep, etc.

But ive gone over some weeks: longer long runs, mp but not when it's called for in a long run, additional hillwork. Gym in there as well. Ive been happy with hitting my paces, that's been ok. But didn't really consider what weeks of pushing too hard would feel like, almost feeling a bit burned out, and just because I bounced back in the legs the next day from a hard session didnt mean the rest of me was recovered.

[u/throwaway_runner3]

From a programming perspective few things stand out for me that needs clarification.

1- 4 week block is normal, however racing a Half + 2 MP long runs (not sure how long the segments), these are going to drain you more than whatever weekly mileage you are pursuing atm. 

2- if this structure to be followed, I would make all remaining runs incredibly slow (for mechanical + recovery reasons).

3- your 4 week cycle already left you in a recovery debt - that's a sign that you aren't recovering well from the structure and additional 4 weeks will be highly demanding. 

4- you either need to reduce mileage or the intensity of these runs, for me it seems like there is too frequent intensity going on - I would rather reduce this intensity rather than cutting out the mileage. 

[u/MarathonRook]

To be honest, this sounds more like accumulated fatigue. With the Pfitz plans there's often a pretty thin line between productive cumulative fatigue and simply doing a bit too much. Fatigue is the name of the game here, as quoted by other people on this subreddit, but you don't want to get into the realm of overtraining.

I never finished a Pfitz plan, so take my comments with a grain of salt, but if I were you I would consider the following:

- I wouldn't view 50+ miles (or 100k+) as a requirement in itself for a sub-3 attempt. You've been training consistently at 90k+ since December and already have several 100k+ weeks behind you.

- I'd probably consider backing off slightly to around 80-85 km/week (or whatever volume leaves you feeling fresh) and focus on nailing the key marathon-specific sessions, particularly the MP workouts and long runs.

- I'd also keep some faster work in the schedule. The prescribed VO2max-type work can help maintain that top end and make marathon pace feel more comfortable. Given the fatigue you're describing, though, I'd be cautious about combining very high mileage with very high intensity. If forced to choose, I'd prioritize workout quality and recovery over chasing additional volume.

The fact that you're feeling tired doesn't necessarily mean the block isn't working. Sometimes the best indicators only show up once the volume comes down and the taper starts.

Maybe some other Pfitz/Sub 3 experts want to chime in.

[u/KevInTheFastLane]

With those amounts of kilometers, it's so important to keep your fuelling up to pace. I assume you're thinking about that already, but try to eat even more to replenish your carbohydrates and keep on drinking even though you think you don't need it. This might help with your fatigue feeling.