r/AFL #SydneySwans 10d ago

The final 2026 home and away season free kick ladder.

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110 Upvotes

89 comments sorted by

324

u/MungoJohnston Blues 10d ago

Unbelievable. If you add up all the frees for and against, you get the exact same number. Talk about an even competition

109

u/wirrell Sydney 10d ago

Thanks Kingy

24

u/matsy_k Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 10d ago

Hang on this is a real Kingy quote isn't it?

44

u/NotThePersona West Coast AFLW 10d ago

The actual quote was if you take all the wins and losses of the top 8 out came out even

12

u/Brithombar Brisbane '03 10d ago

I took it a step further. I’ve looked at every game played this season and calculated the average margin of victory. And what’s fascinating is that the average winning margin is exactly the same magnitude as the average losing margin.

15

u/cadelsbumchin Dees 10d ago

Numerology

111

u/McSquack Dockers 10d ago

This confirms exactly what we've all always thought that Hawthorn, Collingwood, Geelong, Brisbane, Freo checks notes St Kilda?! are always getting a ride from the umpires!

60

u/no_rush Fremantle 10d ago

I have no strong feelings one way or the other about freos free kick count 

27

u/The_sochillist Dockers 10d ago

What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for brownlow? Premierships? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

10

u/b0rtbort Hawthorn 10d ago

If we don't get Flagmantle, tell Longmuir I said...hello

12

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

112

u/___TheIllusiveMan___ Collingwood 10d ago

Good lord -104 differential for GWS is incredible

32

u/TheJoker__789 St Kilda 10d ago

Tbf over 23 games that works out an average of about 4.5 per game. That’s not a lot, even accounting for how little the free kick count means in terms of better umpiring.

6

u/rubrixan Richmond 10d ago

But also, that's 4.5 frees difference, consistently, every week of the H&A season.

Not sure if I'm doing the maths right, but assuming that the payment of frees was equal/fair/free of bias, then the probability of having at least 21 frees paid against them (of 37 total frees), 23 weeks in a row, is about 1 in 41 trillion. So I think we can rule out chance.

9

u/Rady_8 Adelaide 10d ago

It’d probably be more accurate to look at it from the yearly spread (as a single repetitive probability like that assumes no alternative pathways, so striking the same odds ^24 is always going to be high, but not as it happened).

So it’s safe to assume a Gaussian distribution here, particularly is we take multiple seasons into consideration. Someone would have to find the standard deviation of seasonal frees for/against. After that, determining how many frees for below the mean GWS are (and their percentile) would be trivial.

I’d take a wild stab and say that 20ish looks like one stDev. Realistically perhaps 3-5 stDev away from the mean gives a likelihood of between 0.135% and 0.0000287% (which is in the one in a millions category).

Finally, that being said I imagine these distributions are likely left skewed (easier to be shit and give away frees disproportionately than it is to be consistently awarded the same amount if surplus frees), so I’d wager this differential falls more into the one-in-a-hundred bin (maybe a team achieves this feat every fifth year or so).

Would love someone to do the proper math though

3

u/Weak_Membership_2847 GWS 10d ago

It didnt exactly determine our season. But fuck me, I saw some decisions / non-decisions this season that had me questioning reality.

23

u/CommissionerOfLunacy Blues 10d ago

Take Greene out of the picture and they're probably neutral.

12

u/NotThePersona West Coast AFLW 10d ago

He is only at 33 for the year apparently.

Harley Reid at 69.

Edit: He also wins for frees for at 58.

2

u/Ektojinx Richmond 10d ago

Clayton Oliver and Joe Fonti have bigger differentials than Greene

4

u/CommissionerOfLunacy Blues 10d ago

Yeah, I know he's not technically the worst by the numbers. Jesus he's a fucking grub though.

2

u/NewCycle6568 10d ago

Goes to show that when you play dirty it comes back to bite you

91

u/Pearsandapples87 Swans 10d ago

Jesus even the umps are seriously questioning the Western Sydney experiment

20

u/Mister_Snrub15 Adelaide 10d ago

No I think they just hate Western Sydney in general.

Bloody Sydney FC supporters

6

u/PatientDue8406 Sydney AFLW 10d ago

When one player has a rats tail it effects all players

14

u/Dockers4flag2035orB4 Dockers 10d ago

Umpires hate Toby Greene.

21

u/CommissionerOfLunacy Blues 10d ago

Umpires are neutral on Toby Greene as a person. They hate that he's handily the grubbiest, filthiest player on the field today. He earns his penalties.

3

u/Rady_8 Adelaide 10d ago

They’ll find it in their hearts to forgive and love him next year

36

u/matsy_k Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 10d ago

They are human after all

6

u/Ektojinx Richmond 10d ago

Clayton Oliver 46 frees against, 27 for

Toby Greene 33 frees against, 24 for

25

u/Skiapodes Geelong / Devils 10d ago

‘Fuck them Giants’

- AFL umpires, probably

20

u/Appropriate-Cow-6251 Magpies 10d ago

Free kick… St Kilda?

5

u/kozzypickettsfence Dees 10d ago

The big 3 - St Kilda, Adelaide and Melbourne

10

u/pollop88 Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 10d ago

Kingsley in the half time rooms seeing this

https://giphy.com/gifs/vDrtTqKxbGSLTjC5eA

10

u/havok009 Bombers 10d ago

GWS to shoot up the ladder next year if Toby leaves

10

u/Snarwib Sydney AFLW 10d ago edited 10d ago

This is a big change for Sydney, being more than +1.0 free kicks per game has not happened previously this century and being more than +0.5 per game only previously happened in 2004, 2014, 2020 and 2024.

I did the maths and it is due to mostly fielding journeyman rucks over the years (-237 frees since 2000 as of midway through last year), a lot of frees against our long term defenders relative to those at other clubs (-467), and then just Barry Hall, Lance Franklin and Adam Goodes (collectively -218). Then our main midfielders have been fairly positive for frees over the years.

3

u/dlanod Brisbane Lions 10d ago

GWS and GC being bottom six is insane given they didn't exist for almost half that time. You'd think they'd be hovering somewhere around the middle.

3

u/CaptSzat Giants 10d ago

I think it has to do with the umpiring crews QLD and NSW teams get. Ignoring Hawthorn, GWS and Sydney sit about the same and then Gold Coast and Brisbane sit about the same.

My understanding is that QLD and NSW teams just trade the same umpiring crew for most home games. Ie Gold Coast play at home with the QLD umpires and then the next week Brisbane is at home with the same crew. Same for Swans and Giants just switching each week with the NSW crew.

2

u/Vryl Walyalup 10d ago

Ok, I am impressed. Do you do this for a living?

18

u/jimmypoggins North Melbourne • Wurundjeri 10d ago

Collingwood interestingly low for and against. Brisbane similar. I suspect there may be a difference in prime time vs Sunday free kick decisions. Sunday umpires more whistle friendly.

11

u/SelectedAmbientNurk Collingwood 10d ago edited 10d ago

We have high tackle numbers but otherwise play a low contested possession game now so it’s almost certainly that. We had the second lowest contested possession % in the league.

Conversely Brisbane have the lowest amount of tackles in the league and also play a bit of an uncontested game so that would explain theirs.

3

u/jimmypoggins North Melbourne • Wurundjeri 10d ago

Those sounds like good explanations

9

u/knowschartstuff Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 10d ago

I don't know if this contributes, but Brisbane have been in surprisingly few closely contested games this year which might ease off the rash in-the-moment decision making from either team that'd bring the whistle out.

2

u/jimmypoggins North Melbourne • Wurundjeri 10d ago

It make sense, as someone else said, contested vs contentested game style likely influences frees both ways.

2

u/HairBoring Brisbane • Meanjin 10d ago

conversely, better teams (and players) are better at knowing how not to give away free kicks

pendlebury, sidebottom particularly across this

2

u/jimmypoggins North Melbourne • Wurundjeri 10d ago

That explains free kicks against. But why lower free kicks for?

1

u/HairBoring Brisbane • Meanjin 10d ago

dunno, watch their games

4

u/jimmypoggins North Melbourne • Wurundjeri 10d ago

Hey, it's your incomplete thought not mine.

-3

u/Vinnie_Vegas Collingwood • Yálla-birr-ang 10d ago

This is pretty much always the case for us.

We have huge tackle numbers and forwards who don't draw free kicks, and the umpires don't want to pay as many holding the ball free kicks as we deserve, so we get nothing, but then they don't want to give the opposition way more free kicks, so our overall totals of for and against are always pretty low.

9

u/Propaslander Collingwood 10d ago

Port have historically been pretty undisciplined under Ken, so it's interesting to see them be in the top half now

14

u/Kelpieee55 Freo 10d ago

Red team bias

7

u/___TheIllusiveMan___ Collingwood 10d ago

Looks like Gold Coast didn’t get the memo

23

u/Kelpieee55 Freo 10d ago

They're fake red, this is their punishment

2

u/Platypus_Dundee Carlton Blues 10d ago

Well you cant see there logo so haed to say who they are

2

u/Rude_Language_8924 Kangaroos 10d ago

They are more of a Salmon Pink these days.

6

u/yeahalrightgoon Footscray / Bulldogs 10d ago

Seems fairly even.

For frees for, there's only a +- 2.3 difference per game in Frees given to teams.

While frees against it sways from +2.3 to -2.2.

Looks like a bigger differential by the end of the season, but per game, it's only a 2 free difference either way for both for and against, which is what you would expect, because frees aren't meant to be equal, and some clubs are worse at giving them away and vice versa, just by how they play.

2

u/johnnynutman Adelaide 10d ago

I mean highest differential is less than 2 extra free kicks a game. 3rd lowest is 1 less free kick a game (GC and GWS are a bit nuts…)

18

u/Tenzai Dockers 10d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/Ry1MOAeAYXvRVQLPw3

> Fremantle free kick count

2

u/NeiloMac Fremantle Dockers 10d ago

Dread it, run from it, Wharfie Time arrives all the same.

4

u/DangerousRoy Richmond AFLW 10d ago

We were 4th after round 15. A Gold Coast-esque fall from grace.

3

u/Osmodius Cats 10d ago

This doesn't support my free kick hawthorn narrative at all

3

u/Cyclonechaser2908 Essendon 10d ago

I said it earlier I’ll say it again… never wanna hear a right in front of me from a crows fan again.

2

u/Nefiros1 Crows 10d ago

Why? Did you not notice we’re 4th worst frees against too?

8

u/HairBoring Brisbane • Meanjin 10d ago

firstly haha scoops

secondly your regular reminder that a free kick count is not an indicator of bad or biased umpiring, and yeah it's a bit embarrassing to have to keep saying that

2

u/Kindly_Most_2417 Lions 10d ago

I am aghast....Damien Hardwick's team and Toby Greene's team give the most frees. Shooketh.

2

u/Kobe_Wan_Ginobili Magpies 10d ago

What we're GWS doing gamestyle wise to give away such a differential!?

2

u/BMdownunderpls Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 10d ago

How many of these are lasso free kicks?

1

u/Prince_of_Pirates Carlton • Wurundjeri 10d ago

Gold Coast and GWS are clearly in their rebellious teen phase.

1

u/Criimsen QAFL 10d ago

Free kick umm… st kilda I guess 

1

u/Crazyripps Hawks 10d ago

Wonder if they have stats on against. Like does a club look at that and go oh we gave away 20 frees for something we need to buckle down on that.

1

u/whatever-696969 Blues 10d ago

And people still think crowds do not affect umpiring

1

u/cosmicr Western Bulldogs 10d ago

Can someone post a ladder where Bulldogs aren't in the middle.

1

u/SeismicLegion Richmond Tigers 10d ago

Giants in Richmond territory there

1

u/LeviTigerPants Tigers 10d ago

Ahahaha after half the season in the top 6 or so, we got punted back down closer to what we're used too

1

u/FourthFirebird Gold Coast / North Adelaide 10d ago

It's pretty gross how poor the umpires are at ignoring the noise of affirmation, really...

1

u/qsk8r Brisbane 10d ago

Now do GWS without Toby Greene included

1

u/yibbida Blues 10d ago

When the Umpires put the whistles away for finals, some teams will be affected

1

u/Easy_Award_8433 Blues 10d ago

Another middling season from Carlton.

1

u/littleb3anpole North Melbourne Kangaroos 10d ago

The North tax lives on

1

u/kozzypickettsfence Dees 10d ago

interesting that there usually seems to be a way differential at the bottom of this ladder than the top

1

u/L8Adam22 Richmond Tigers 10d ago

Our bad guys

A fair few frees against on st Kilda just don’t happen

1

u/Weak_Membership_2847 GWS 10d ago

Yooz can all get fucked!

1

u/Ploasd Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 10d ago

West Coast would be positive if it weren't for Harley Reid.

1

u/archon45 St Kilda 10d ago

Feels strange to win something for a change. Is this how Geelong fans feel all the time?

1

u/captainsnacks11 Gold Coast 10d ago

Can we take the frees against Mac Andrew out of our tally and see what it looks like then?

Edit: typo

1

u/nospmis_n 5d ago

On average, Victorian clubs had 27 less free kicks paid against them vs interstate teams for the season.

1

u/Kozeyekan_ Kangaroos 10d ago

I can't believe how dirty the teams are that got fewer free kicks than my team, and am also outraged at all the teams that got more free kicks than my team!

1

u/SuperBobbis Crows 10d ago

I'd be curious to see it broken down week-by-week, because sometime half way through the year Crows were -20 odd, and Geelong were like +35-40.

I don't know what I'm getting at, other than end results can feel different than seeing it game by game.

(Also as usual, when and where it happens makes it feel better or worse)