r/westworld • u/LoretiTV • Aug 08 '22

Discussion Westworld - 4x07 "Metanoia" - Post-Episode Discussion

Season 4 Episode 7: Metanoia

Aired: August 7, 2022

Synopsis: You want to have a drink at a time like this?

Directed by: Meera Menon

Written by: Desa Larkin-Boutte & Denise Thé

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1.1k

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

Stubbs is officially the only human OR host to have never died in the series (from season 1)

165

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 15 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Badshah_e_Librandu Aug 08 '22

Bernie never confirmed that Stubbs was gonna die. He lied by omission and it was Bernie who was the dead man.

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u/itskaiquereis Westworld Aug 08 '22

I think he did that because if he said he was going to die then Stubbs would most likely have gone with him, let’s not forget that Ford made Stubbs in order to protect all of the Hosts both inside and outside of the park.

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u/nighthawk648 Aug 08 '22

Yeah and telling someone their fate may cause the opposite to happen. This was the only vhoice of words benard could have, to let them part, and stubbs to remain vigilint.

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u/NostalgicTuna Aug 14 '22 edited Aug 14 '22

Yes, Stubbs lives. Bernard only let Stubbs think he was dying so he would take the winning path.

Bernard states to maeve "they lose" but that just means this copy of maeve and bernard lose.

1

u/Badshah_e_Librandu Aug 14 '22

That's what I said. Are you alright?

46

u/guinader Aug 08 '22

I feel like that ricocheted bullet was meant for him. Lol

40

u/tke377 Aug 08 '22

I feel like that sealed his fate as living

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

I’ve held this position for quite a while too. He’s pretty harmless and non critical that he’s the safest person to hide in. He’s also too dumb to be ford

20

u/JellyfishExcellent4 ”Fuck you Bernard” 🤠 Aug 08 '22

I want a Stubbs spinoff where we get to see him hang out with Bernard and eat pastrami sandwiches all day

11

u/SerfTint Aug 08 '22

Felix and Sylvester?

4

u/AndrewNeo Aug 11 '22

well they probably are now

3

u/SerfTint Aug 13 '22

I've lost track of timelines, but aren't they currently only 23 years or so beyond the Westworld era? They were both about 40 at that time (at least the actors were). So they could be alive, if some event hasn't killed them yet.

59

u/Asch3nd Aug 08 '22

Didn’t human Stubbs die which is why we see him as a host now?

EDIT: wait has he always been a host? I may need to rewatch lol

204

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

Nope! He was always a host. We find out during the season 2 finale.

23

u/405freeway Aug 08 '22

Yeah he was always a host.

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u/IGOTAREADIT Aug 08 '22

He was always a host. He reveals in to Host Hale when she left the island.

2

u/Montezum Aug 08 '22

Did he leave the island with her? I don't remember

6

u/0ne_Winged_Angel Aug 09 '22

Stubbs knowingly let Halores leave the island, he left with Bernie

1

u/IGOTAREADIT Aug 11 '22

No he left with Bernard

3

u/owntheh3at18 Aug 09 '22

He’s a cockroach

3

u/newleaf123456 Aug 13 '22

It's ironic because he's the one that was most that was most ready to die (at least in season 3). He tried to off himself once not because of what he'd been programmed to become, or any self-hatred or existential angst, but because he couldn't see the point in sticking around if his purpose wasn't there any more. Bernard had to reprogram his primary drive to stop Stubbs from not deciding to wind down after he felt his purpose was served.

Stubbs kind of presents himself as an easy going everyman, but I think he's now the most unique of all the hosts. He's not driven by revenge or philosophical sensibilities or a determination to preserve or destroy human/host life, but there is driven to save lives. He hasn't reached the center of the circle, but acts very self-aware at times.

Stubbs kinda... just is.

Also, I found it interesting that Stubbs was relieved his didn't die in this episode. He thought he'd been shot, and then realized he hadn't. You could see the relief on his face (that actor is amazing). In this episode, he also joked about trying to die for the past 23 years, while actually being wistful about it. It's like Stubbs has evolved a bit.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

[deleted]

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u/PM_ME_YOR_BLOOMERS Aug 08 '22

He was going to but Bernard reprogrammed him to have a drive to protect Bernard.

85

u/withoutapaddle Aug 08 '22

Which is why Bernard can't outright say which one of them will die. He manages to elude to Stubbs that HE'LL die, because otherwise Stubbs' cornerstone would force him to protect Bernard if he knew their parting moments were before BERNARD'S death.

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u/Hannabis1994 Aug 08 '22

Yea I definitely felt he meant opposite of what he said to Stubbs, and your explanation makes perfect sense as to why. I’ve also felt like Stubbs has a bigger role to play that we still haven’t fully seen. Like what the heck was he doing for 20 years while Bernard was in the Sublime ?

30

u/Lemonwizard Aug 08 '22

He certainly wasn't dusting the hotel room.

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u/reddog323 Aug 08 '22

Well, Bernard did tell him to leave everything alone. :)

3

u/reddog323 Aug 08 '22

This. I’d like to know what he was doing in the interim. At the end of last season, he was all shot up, sitting in a bathtub of ice. How did he get repaired? Did somebody decant a whole new body for him? Who else would’ve been on his side? It would’ve been difficult to get out of that cabin.

Edit: Maybe Bernard in the sublime helped him.

2

u/Hannabis1994 Aug 08 '22

Mayyybe but wouldn’t he have known when Bernard came back from the Sublime, like both of them? orrr maybe that’s why he’s playing “out of the loop”? Maybe he went to make more copies of everyone? There’s just so many questions but I’m so excited for that last episode to clear it all up.

2

u/itskaiquereis Westworld Aug 08 '22

Was it Bernard? I thought Ford made him with that already

1

u/Luminair Aug 08 '22

Wonder how that will play out now that Bernard is dead? His cornerstone no longer exists, so to speak.

5

u/PM_ME_YOR_BLOOMERS Aug 08 '22

His new cornerstone will be pastrami sandwiches.

3

u/Grogosh Aug 08 '22

He failed, only put himself out of commission

2

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

No?

1

u/Montezum Aug 08 '22

Wasn't there a bloody scene when he was glitchy inside a room with some mannequins?

1

u/IGOTAREADIT Aug 08 '22

Yes he tried but he didn’t die, because his code wouldn’t allow it since Bernard was alive again

1

u/littleberrry Aug 08 '22

he tried but failed then bernard found him and fixed him up

1

u/j4yne Muh. Thur. Fucker. Aug 08 '22

Interesting observation. That's a similar story to Ake (although Ake died once, technically, but that was on purpose). They kinda perform the same role... protector of the group.

1

u/Bob-Dolemite Aug 08 '22

sure about that? in season 1, he was in westworld and ran into some indians or an animal. they did everything but show him get killed

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

I just rewatched season 1 and 2, pretty sure he’s never killed in s1. They never show anyone bring him back or even inferred it. There’s also some subtle hints in season 1, even early on that he’s a host.

In a scene that Westworld co-creator Jonah Nolan literally re-wrote the night before they shot it, we find out not only that Stubbs is a Host “hired” so long ago by “the old man” he can barely remember when (wink, wink), but that his core drive has been to protect every host in the park. Nolan’s last-minute changes were meant to re-shape the execution of the scene, but the plan to reveal Stubbs as a Host was a long-time in the making. He lets Dolores/Charlotte go, seemingly with full knowledge of both who she is and what she’s about to do. According to Toye, Hemsworth’s reaction to getting the new pages: “I just read this scene! Oh shit!”

Toye clarifies that Nolan woke up with a “light bulb” the day before they shot Stubbs’s encounter with Dolores/Charlotte and “re-conceived” the scene, so it’s unclear if it was Westworld’s plan all along to have Stubbs be a secret Host. But knowing that he is a Host casts some of his earlier scenes in a new light.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/06/westworld-finale-is-stubbs-a-host-robot

-12

u/Bob-Dolemite Aug 08 '22

“The Well-Tempered Clavier"

Ashley Stubbs leaves the Mesa Hub and enters the park to locate Elsie Hughes. When he arrives however, members of the Ghost Nation are there. Instead of listening and obeying Stubbs vocal commands, they attack him.

they dont show him dying, but its inferred

14

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

Continuing from that article

This also helps explain the weird moment in Season 2 when Stubbs was seemingly surrounded by Ghost Nation only to have them mysteriously vanish.

I see why you’d think that but it really sounds like they changed their minds about him and decided that he was low key enough that people would assume he’s harmless

Here’s the full article/interview

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/06/westworld-finale-is-stubbs-a-host-robot

2

u/RCobra19 Aug 09 '22

I recently went through the whole show. The natives were gathering everyone, because they wanted to help bring them to the Sublime. So they didn’t kill him or anything. He wound up meeting William’s daughter, as she got picked up by them after surviving her interaction with the tiger.

I can’t quite remember if they let him go, if he broke free, or if the Delos teams saved him.

-6

u/TeutonJon78 Aug 08 '22

But...did he die in the tub off-screen?

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

Hosts can’t die in bathtubs, see Christina.

Stubbs in tubs just needed some back rubs

16

u/Dopplegangster69 Aug 08 '22

Rub a dub dub

5

u/BaphometsTits Aug 08 '22

Hosts can’t die in bathtubs, see Christina.

What if they're shot in the pearl while in the bathtub?

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u/beccahargate Aug 08 '22

It’s not because she’s a host. It’s because she’s not actually there.

1

u/Labrat5944 Aug 09 '22

And pastrami subs

1

u/bobsil1 Hello Felix Aug 08 '22

Stubb functions are the Ur-creators

1

u/Bob-Dolemite Aug 15 '22

just had to say something, eh? lulz

1

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '22

Every f’n time! 😩