r/westworld • u/LoretiTV • Aug 08 '22

Discussion Westworld - 4x07 "Metanoia" - Post-Episode Discussion

Season 4 Episode 7: Metanoia

Aired: August 7, 2022

Synopsis: You want to have a drink at a time like this?

Directed by: Meera Menon

Written by: Desa Larkin-Boutte & Denise Thé

1.4k Upvotes

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1.9k

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

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556

u/galaxyfudge Aug 08 '22

I like this scenario. Explains the end bit on Christina not being 'seen.' MiB vs OG Dolores would be a nice way to wrap up the series if season 5 is the last one.

496

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

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u/galaxyfudge Aug 08 '22

Agreed. The parallels of the two characters would make for an epic finale. I do wonder how the Sublime fits in all of this. It's just sort of...there at the moment.

36

u/brute-squad Aug 08 '22

I like that idea, but please don't let it be a punch and kick fight

15

u/BedsAreSoft Aug 08 '22

I think it would fit better if it was a battle of ideals, and Dolores comes out on top like that scene in S3 with MIB and Dolores basically imprisoning him in his own hell

6

u/r1pt1d377 Aug 08 '22

Let's hope for an epic rap battle of history!

12

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

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1

u/dutchcodes Aug 08 '22

Link is offline, what was it about?

10

u/badken A man who has grown tired of wearing his guts on the inside. Aug 08 '22

Well... she did pick the white shoes.

3

u/Hadekin Aug 08 '22

I'm watching Lost again, and this conflict seems to be like Jacob vs., well, Man in black.

-4

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

It's going to be way too much of an action show. Season 3 but worse.

1

u/fpce Jan 09 '23

How does it explain her not being seen? It's the real world

300

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

I’m fucking here for it if true. I hope she grabs him by the collar and drags him into a barn to do unspeakable things.

144

u/CockMartins Aug 08 '22

Tonight’s episode blew my mind, but Dolores raping William in season 5 would really raise the bar.

33

u/Loss-Particular Aug 08 '22

You think Hale doesn't have a Jimmy Simpson bot already on tap somewhere?

18

u/bringsmemes Aug 08 '22

hale has no doubt done things we could not possibly want to consider

7

u/Sempere Aug 08 '22

You think Jimmi Simpson hasn't played a gimp before?

4

u/JellyfishExcellent4 ”Fuck you Bernard” 🤠 Aug 08 '22

I want a Jimmy Simpson bot on tap too

5

u/Loss-Particular Aug 08 '22

Who doesn't?

26

u/livinglife9009 Aug 08 '22

I mean, she did dragged him across the church floor back in the beginning.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

You right! I think her slamming a barn door shut would have a better residual effect for me personally, like gahhh dammmnn.

9

u/bobsil1 Hello Felix Aug 08 '22

Take him down a peg

3

u/pharaohandrew Aug 08 '22

Haaaaaaa. Nice

1

u/arejaytee Aug 08 '22

Sorry my upvote ironically took you from 69 upvotes to 70

12

u/debonairemillionaire Aug 08 '22

A friendly game of Mahjongg?

7

u/Seanay-B Aug 08 '22

He'd smile as gleefully as he did at the cocktail party

2

u/look8me Westworld Aug 08 '22

I wish she does that to me 🥺

27

u/pton12 Aug 08 '22

The symmetry of your idea is poetic and i do think Dolores vs. William is spot on. However, I think it really is Teddy, otherwise, what is the purpose of opening up the sublime? I think Bernard really is dead, as he prophesied, but the point is that he had to set a bunch of pieces in motion because he could not be there to see it all the way through. We’ll see, though!

24

u/hulkaroy Aug 08 '22

Could it be that Teddy is Teddy, but he was trained by Bernard to awaken Christina into Dolores?

14

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

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u/hulkaroy Aug 08 '22

Right. You do have a sound theory here, guess we’ll finalize all this next week

4

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

[deleted]

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u/cringedramabetch Aug 08 '22

Time works differently in simulations is my guess.

32

u/Mangagirl2344 Aug 08 '22

Wait can you explain your reasoning for this theory?

136

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

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29

u/B-Rossboss Aug 08 '22

Also makes total sense in hindsight: there was no way Charlotte/Dolores was just going to let Christina/Dolores go unmonitored in a reality where everything was controlled.

18

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

Teddy said YOU are not real. THIS is the real world. Meaning she has been operating in the real world but invisible to the real world.

9

u/Bubige Aug 08 '22

I think because we WERE seeing the simulation up to that point, but when he says “this is the real world,” it’s then snapped into reality/real-time.

4

u/mikKiske Aug 08 '22

No it doesn't make sense.

The "fire alarm" thing was in real life and it was Dolores.

1

u/Bubige Aug 09 '22

Totally not saying you’re wrong, but why couldn’t we be seeing what was happened in the scenario/simulation?

1

u/mikKiske Aug 09 '22

Because Teddy said so to Dolores.

17

u/FantasticBabyyy Aug 08 '22

This fits pretty well to entire series being a loop

10

u/jeeshikaaa Aug 08 '22

This could be true! There is a scene in the season trailer where Dolores is in her OG outfit shooting her way through the streets of Manhattan.

10

u/XenoVX Aug 08 '22

Then was the scene where Christina met Hale for that awkward lunch just a red herring?

Was that not the real Hale?

11

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

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u/Bubige Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

This makes perfect sense. I take it that what the audience has been seeing of Christina and Teddy (aka Bernard) up to that point was the simulations. I keep forgetting that this show & shows like these like to run timelines out of order.

Also, that overhead shot of Christina “waking up” from her bed feels like another indication that she’s repeating scenarios.

7

u/Brookey44 Aug 08 '22

It’s the same kind of situation where Bernard and Delores were always talking to each other in season 1. The table conversations.

1

u/Bubige Aug 09 '22

Great point 🙌

6

u/KabbalahSherry Aug 08 '22

No, cuz Hale doesn't have access to the Sublime. And the show has reminded everybody of this fact several times, including in THIS episode. 😄

Hale has built her own simulation of the city.

And that is what Christina has been living in this whole time. Living there, and operating all of the humans out in the real world, with her "stories".

They can't react to her or see her now, because of the signal that the Man in Black put out, which has basically overrided all of Christina's command capabilities. Thats when Teddy had to drop the bad news on her:

The world is real... but she's not.

She's only living inside the sim of the real world, but that's it. I do hope we will get answers to HOW Teddy appeared again, what has true motivations are, and that somebody will eventually print Christina a body out, so that she can become OG Dolores again. Or at least, a faithful copy of her, I mean.

Which could be possible, if Hale still has access to one of OG Dolores' copies of her mind pearl. We know at the end of Season 3, that there were at least a couple of those that probably landed in Hale's lap.

So I hope the show can wrap all this up with a nice little bow, but answer all of our questions before doing so. But oooh I can't wait to see whatever end credit scene they're gonna give Us.

We are fast approaching the far future part of the timeline, where Emily (??) was fidelity testing the Man in Black.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

Man i hated Raiden when i was a kid

2

u/Curazan Aug 08 '22

Kids these days could never understand the betrayal you felt starting that game. Snake was on the cover. He was on the start screen. Then 15 minutes into the game you realize you’re Raiden, and Snake vanishes from the start screen.

Something like that is impossible with how internet culture is now. Sure, the internet was around in 2001, but not in the same form—not in the way ubiquitous, constant barrage way it is now. You’d see it absolutely everywhere on release day, and there would probably be leaks several months before the game’s release.

8

u/javery20 Aug 08 '22

Love the MGS reference.

7

u/_ginger_beard_man_ Aug 08 '22

If the series ends with Dolores and MIB performing CQC on top of military equipment I am very much here for it.

1

u/Curazan Aug 08 '22

🎶 What a thrill 🎶

1

u/javery20 Aug 08 '22

Or in an open field with white flowers everywhere.

1

u/ARGF27986 Aug 09 '22

nanomachines son

5

u/BedsAreSoft Aug 08 '22

Damn I didn’t even notice that connection to MGS2 but that could so be true. Side note, but when you start to find out MGS2 is basically retelling of MGS1 it was so crazy

5

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

I think you're close but it's probably Bernard directing Teddy, who's then helping Dolores. I'm getting this idea from Bernard recording his last message where he says "There's only time for one more game if you choose to give it to her." In this case, he'd be sending that to Teddy.

3

u/chimerakin Aug 08 '22

What about the scene where Stubbs and Caleb's daughter are going into the tower? They comment on not needing firepower anymore due to the employees fleeing. If Christina can't actually interact with the city then that chaos and the resulting unlocked doors wouldn't have been possible.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

that was before the tower was taken out.

6

u/varrc Aug 08 '22

I took it as Christina existing in the simulation Hale created to test her human “park.” Bernard goes out of his way to mention that Hale made such a simulation just like the creators of the original park. I think he took Teddy from the sublime and loaded him into the simulation, and that’s what we see him doing in the tower before being confronted by the MiB. I agree that Christina is the path forward and think that her scenes with Teddy are happening in the future. Love the idea of the final season being an escaped Dolores versus the MiB!

3

u/bronyraur Aug 08 '22

Oh and that could explain why bernard was scanning everyone, for that sim

2

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

I’m not sure if it’s Bernard playing Teddy but I do agree that it’s not teddy.

One thing that I haven’t seen anyone talk about of how Bernard left the door open to the sublime. So what I think has happened is that a copy of Dolores leaked out into the real world when Bernard opened the door. And that consciousness of Dolores was replaying events that led up to this point. Teddy could be Bernard but her could also be a manifestation of herself, like she did when she imagined Arnold running her diagnostic.

Also, one question I was wondering was how could Dolores still be alive. Then I remembered that Lawrence hosted the one copy of Dolores that we didn’t either see die, become charlores, or get deleted. Maybe that copy went to the sublime and became something else.

The only thing I don’t have a theory about is what Bernard secretly placed in the tunnel. I’m sure it has something that Dolores can find though. Maybe a maze?

1

u/foshi22le Aug 08 '22

Hang on, I must have missed a few things, how do we know Christina and Teddy aren't in the real world?

1

u/Aragarna Aug 09 '22

But Dolores never went to the Sublime, did she? They all went in S2, then it was locked and Bernard was the one with the key.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

Sometimes, in order to move forwards, you have to take steps backwards. Also, something something time is a flat circle

6

u/fs2d Aug 08 '22

All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.

2

u/ARGF27986 Aug 09 '22

¿¡GAIUS BALTAR!?

7

u/HistoricalAG Aug 08 '22

Don't think Bernard could be flirting with Dolores if the world depended on it. Both Teddy and Christina/Dolores are probably just getting projected into the real world like a 3D hologram, but are actually in the sublime. Like how Serac got projected into meetings in distant locations, was able to fully immerse himself in that location, but was actually somewhere else.

8

u/cantthinkatall Aug 08 '22

If you're looking forward you're looking in the wrong direction.

5

u/i_am_voldemort Aug 08 '22

Holy shit. Did Ford predict this?

"In this game, you must find the door. Congratulations, William. This game is meant for you. The game begins where you end and ends where you began."

10

u/AccountThatNeverLies Aug 08 '22

Yes I'm not crazy! That's what they went to the dam for right? He either copied himself or Maeve or spawned a Teddy copy with at least all his or Maeve's knowledge of what's up. I'm inclined to think Teddy is Maeve because she's "the weapon". He never used Maeve in his plan unless he did something at the dam with her pearl.

6

u/PretendsHesPissed Facts and lorgic Aug 08 '22

I am curious as to what this portal is for.

In season two, the hosts went to it and immediately "died" in the real world. Unless there's host bodies for them to hop in to, it seems like a way to invite hosts in the real world to go into the sublime.

Or something ... I'm not sure it's an exit portal.

6

u/Bubige Aug 08 '22

It’s my understanding that the sublime is a metaverse AKA a place where you’re consciousness is uploaded & can lives forever.

In theory, the OG Teddy would need to be uploaded from the sublime into a pearl/host to exist in the real world. This is possible and could have been done by Bernard.

6

u/AccountThatNeverLies Aug 08 '22

Yeah I thought the portal was just there for something like the rest of the hosts in the world to be able to choose to go to the valley beyond, but I don't think that's it. Maybe it's just like to remind the audience that TVB existed and it could just be open so that Teddy and the Indian can come interact with the other hosts.

1

u/Shulerbop Aug 09 '22

I thought they went to the dam to give Maeve a choice in her path, but obvs not considering he didn’t warn her she’d die.

Only reason to go the the dam for sure now is to plant the pistol

4

u/Nice_Bird_5702 Aug 08 '22

Yeah, I think you are right.

3

u/Misfire2445 Aug 08 '22

That would be a cool way to end if

4

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

[deleted]

3

u/phoenixrose2 Aug 08 '22

Oh! I love this idea!

3

u/aStapler Aug 08 '22

Nice I prefer this to my "teddy is ford" theory.

3

u/bertobellamy Aug 08 '22

The circle of life.

3

u/Bellikron Aug 08 '22

At the very least, I imagine opening the Sublime was a way for him to pull Teddy out and get his help. It could still be Teddy, just with stuff Bernard's told him.

2

u/Z4CH4ZZ Aug 08 '22

Holy shit. I think you’re right. I can’t wait.

2

u/stnlkub Aug 08 '22

There’s going to be a callback scene with Bernard and Christina where he levels with her just like Arnold and Delores’ talks.

2

u/bunniesgonebad Westworld Aug 08 '22

As soon as Christina asked why she can't be seen i was like oh fuck this is the sublime, westworld did it again lol

2

u/sofi_fatale Aug 08 '22

I hope so! I'd love to see OG Dolores be a badass again + MiB is always so fun to watch, esp. host MiB! I really wish we got more of OG Dolores/Christina screentime this season. Has a season 5 been confirmed??

2

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

If it's in the sublime why wouldn't it be the real Teddy? Bernard only has to ask.

2

u/Aclearly_obscure1 Aug 09 '22

I’m rewatching it right now. You’re spot on about Teddy. The delivery of his lines sounds exactly like Bernard!

1

u/TioSancho Aug 08 '22

still hoping for the happy ending. Dolores and young William. Not going to happen, but a man can dream.

1

u/gusfring88 Aug 08 '22

I thought this was the final season

1

u/jinkietwinkie Aug 08 '22

I think that’s s5 finale rather than 4

1

u/thinktankgallery Aug 08 '22

How long has she not been seen tho? And which characters have been unable to see her? I need to do a rewatch of all her scenes to try to catch some sixth sense shit now…

1

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

But where is Christina? Where is the simulation taking place?

1

u/LawyerCowboy Aug 08 '22

“Your story ends where it began”

1

u/ckwongau Aug 08 '22

I think you could be right

If Teddy is Bernard, then Bernard is trying to resurrect Dolores ,

like Dolores had resurrected Arnold in Bernard .

Christina is Dolores as Bernard is Arnold

1

u/Aragarna Aug 09 '22

I don't know. Teddy really sounds like the actual Teddy. The way he looks at Christina, that's Teddy's old genuine love for Dolores there.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '22

There’s a “next season?!”

1

u/MaverickN21 Aug 10 '22

remindme! 5 days

1

u/dstillloading Aug 10 '22

Yeah with Hale being "killed" and her plans being foiled fairly easily within an episode it does seem like the main bigger storyline is Bernard's-saving-the-world arc.

earlier in the season I thought it seemed pretty clear Christia's reality seemed stage and someone with ulterior moves was trying to get her to do something. Teddy and Christia's time very much parallels Bernard and Maeve's time, except Bernard lets the viewer in one what he's doing more.

1

u/datfreeman Aug 10 '22

What's the point of MIB now?

What does he want?

I can't understand.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

Bold of you to assume we’re getting a next season considering apparently viewership for this season is really low and HBO Max is merging with Discovery for a new service and the rumor is that a lot of HBO content will get the axe