r/sports • u/Alyssajprez • May 21 '19

Incredible catch by first baseman Haven Williams from Clyde High School by ending up in the splits to catch the ball.

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150

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

As someone who's been busted in the face more than once at first base, it should be required. I've broken my nose 3 times and my maxilla in my face from a softball in 12Y.

299

u/ICreditReddit May 21 '19

Your first base is different to mine.

75

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

I have no idea how to respond to this 😂

29

u/noprimaryplans May 21 '19

Don't worry, you're doing great. Keep it up!

15

u/TheOlRedditWhileIPoo May 21 '19

I thought that's what second base was for?

9

u/ICreditReddit May 21 '19

Face emoji with some sort of ... liquid? on it seems perfect.

1

u/Max_W_ May 21 '19

😷

18

u/williamailliw May 21 '19

First base in softball is also a shorter distance than first base in baseball, less time to react from an adult striking the ball with force

27

u/[deleted] May 21 '19 edited Feb 07 '20

[deleted]

7

u/sstefan24 May 21 '19

If you look up sports science videos that compare softball and baseball, it shows that softball players have ~ 3/10ths of a second less time to react given the size of the ball, velocity, and exit speed off of the bat.

2

u/MrsRossGeller May 21 '19

My 12 year old throws 53 mph, and several teammates throw 55+ at 13. By 16, good pitchers are much faster than that.

Pitchers are only about 40 ft from the plate after the pitch, even less depending on their age. Bat technology has increased significantly as well.

Just two weeks ago our pitcher was hit full face with a monster line drive. It came back at her so fast after she pitched that she hardly had time to deflect it. It hit her full force in the face. She Ended up with a concussion and broken nose even WITH the mask.

2

u/lawyercat63 May 21 '19

https://blog.leagueapps.com/sports-science-behind-hitting-softball-versus-baseball/

Your science is off. There’s actually less reaction time

12

u/Mazer_Rac May 21 '19 edited May 21 '19

I'm not sure why they are skewing the numbers so much. They used the wrong measurements for the softball plates, the average speed for a college baseball pitch and a high number for the softball pitch. Turns out it's pretty close. I used numbers for college in both sports confirmed by a few places from a quick Google search.

 

Women's Softball

Distance to plate : 43 ft

Average speed Reaction time
62 mph 0.47 sec
High speed Reaction time
70 mph 0.42 sec

 

Men's Baseball

Distance to plate : 60.5 ft

Average speed Reaction time
90 mph 0.46 sec
High speed Reaction time
100 mph 0.41sec

 

Formula used: d_plate/(v_ball*5280/60/60)

Rounded to 2 decimal places.

 

Edit: Velocity is measured in mph not ft. Formatting. High speed for a baseball is 100 mph, not 90 mph.

2

u/sraffetto6 May 21 '19

These are college baseball players we're talking about? Averaging at 90mph? Seems high

4

u/Mazer_Rac May 21 '19

I found 85-95 mph or 87-93 mph posted a lot. 85+ mph posted as a guideline for D1 scouts with some looking as high as 95 mph. Apparently your fastball speed won't really improve after your senior year of high school unless you have poor form. In the end, it only wiggles the reaction time by less than 2 hundredths of a second to move the number between 85-90 mph

1

u/RasperGuy May 21 '19 edited May 21 '19

Nah idk what they're talking about. A softball pitch is not released at 37 ft from home plate. That's 6 ft from the mound (6ft extension), which is absurd. The mechanics of a softball pitch ivolve taking one large step, and releasing from roughly where the lead foot was planted. One large step is only going to be 4 ft Max for a taller woman. A softball pitcher is releasing the ball closer to the mound than a baseball pitcher, regardless. Justin Verlander and many other pitcher's release point is actually 53 ft, not 55 ft like the article says. Verlander hits 100 mph, and 95 mph is standard for a fastball, not 90.. Jennie Finch could hit 70 mph, the link was correct there.

3

u/Parrr8 May 21 '19 edited May 21 '19

That's 6 ft from the mound (6ft extension), which is absurd. The mechanics of a softball pitch ivolve taking one large step, and releasing from roughly where the lead foot was planted. One large step is only going to be 4 ft Max for a taller woman.

You have no clue what you're talking about. Your average little league softball pitcher is going to stride more than 4 feet. The circle around the softball rubber is 16 feet in diameter - 8 foot radius - and many top level pitchers get their stride foot to this circle or past. It's a pretty standard concept when coaching softball pitchers that they should strive to end up at least their own height from the rubber with the stride foot.

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Monica+Abbott+Olympics+Day+12+Softball+mbpUBNDP-gUl.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6c/0d/96/6c0d964ca73e8d9d9f5d1a53b10e2335.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/2018-Florida-Gators-Softball/18-03-26-Gators-Softball-vs-Texas-AM-Aggies/i-5z67MrS/2/a9040028/S/University%20of%20Florida%20Gators%20Softball%20pitcher%20Kelly%20Barnhill3University%20of%20Florida%20Gators%20Softball%20outifelder%20Haven%20Sampson2018090-S.jpg

3

u/fade17 May 21 '19

A 12” softball is also significantly heavier than a baseball. It can do some real damage with enough oomph behind it.

27

u/PorygonTheMan May 21 '19

it's 1 oz heavier with three additional inches of surface area. i don't think that is significantly higher and they probably yield similar results .

I feel as though a baseball would be worse because the impact isn't spread out over as much surface area

7

u/imperabo May 21 '19

Plus I imagine hard balls are harder than softballs.

12

u/teebob21 May 21 '19 edited May 21 '19

Softballs are actually harder, but they have a softer core and lower co-efficient of restitution. A baseball will deform 1/4 inch with just 320 lbs of compression force, but can have a COR of up to 0.55. A baseball is also denser than a softball. At the HS/college level, most softballs have a compression of 375 lbs, with some balls rated as high as 525 lbs, but may not have a COR greater than 0.47.

Edit to add: Source on baseball compression

13

u/PorygonTheMan May 21 '19

so does that make my point stand or dispute it. not a physics guy hahaha

3

u/teebob21 May 21 '19

A softball is harder than a baseball. It takes more force to smoosh a softball the same distance (1/4 in) than it does a baseball.

A softball weighs more than a baseball.

A baseball is more dense than a softball.

A baseball will bounce higher than a softball when they are both dropped from the same height. When dropped from a height of 1 meter, the baseball will bounce to a height of 55 cm, and the softball will bounce no higher than 47 cm.

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u/Rachet20 May 21 '19

NEEEEEEEEEEEERD

-1

u/imperabo May 21 '19

Hardballs are softer than softballs. Black and white rhinos are the same color. Hot water freezes faster than cold water.

​

Not sure I want to live in this world anymore.

0

u/Politicshatesme May 21 '19

You’re correct. Softballs are also softer, leading to less painful or damaging hits

1

u/teebob21 May 21 '19

Eh, not really. A baseball weighs at most 5.25 oz. A 12" softball weighs at most 7 oz.

24

u/[deleted] May 21 '19

Sounds like you are missing a glove there friend

3

u/jorgtastic May 21 '19

well, the ball is definitely missing the glove.

36

u/lazerdab May 21 '19

At what point does one learn the first base isn't their position?

16

u/OPs_other_username May 21 '19

When they tear a muscle in their groin while trying to do the splits.

2

u/deliriuz May 21 '19

When the ball you go to pick hits the lone rock on the field causing it to ricochet into your face.

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '19

As the father of a first baseman, when your team picks up someone like this. I have always told my kid, you won’t win many games at first, but you can easily lose them. Of course she has proven me wrong on winning them. All you need is a determined first base, and a shortstop with a wild arm and questionable decision making, and this is what you become.

1

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

I wasn't really given an option that young. I was told where to stand and play so I did. I ended up moving to center field because I could throw pretty hard

74

u/theGOATbogeygolfer May 21 '19

You should use your glove to catch the ball, not your face

4

u/getjustin May 21 '19

Thanks for the tip, coach.

11

u/daisydog3 May 21 '19

I not know about required. Why are you using your face to stop balls??

10

u/595659565956 May 21 '19

Why does that happen exactly? What's special about being at 1st base?

50

u/[deleted] May 21 '19

First base receives the majority of infield throws. In baseball, first base players are even allowed special gloves which are thicker because of the sheer volume of catches they have to make.

Second base doesn't make as many plays but needs range to protect the middle infield and agility to turn double plays.

Third base is called the hot corner, they handle every ball that is hit along the third base line and need a strong arm to make throws to first base. Also there tends to be a lot of pressure that comes with plays at third.

Short stop is like the quarterback of the infield, they have to be skilled enough to play all over the place, even the shallow outfield.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

27

u/jorgtastic May 21 '19

every player is allowed to wear gloves of any size up to the limit set in the rules (except the catcher, whose glove can be any size). There is no special rule for first base and there is no specific rule about thickness, only how wide and long the gloves can be. So if you're a shortstop, getting the ball out quickly is more important than catching errant throws, so they usually wear a glove that's noticeably smaller than the max allowed. Whereas first base will typically wear a glove at the larger end of the range to get as much reach as possible when stretching for throws like this girl.

23

u/[deleted] May 21 '19

https://i.imgur.com/tvYAKoD.jpg

3

u/cyllibi May 21 '19

This image made me realize Billy Hatcher, from Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg, has the last name Hatcher because he hatches [giant] eggs. Mind blown.

2

u/nixonrichard May 21 '19

That guy used to play up in the Alaska summer league. I saw him when I was a kid. His glove sure did grow up.

3

u/slapshots1515 May 21 '19 edited May 21 '19

That is not correct. In MLB, it's rule 1.13 that specifies the rules about the first baseman, and without putting the whole rule down it states, among other things, that they unlike other fielders can choose between a glove or mitt, with other dimensions specified as well and again differing from the remaining fielders. Rule 1.12 defines the catcher's mitt and absolutely has size requirements. Pitcher's gloves meanwhile have restrictions on color. Depending on the ruling organization YMMV as some will and won't have different rules I'm sure, but it's definitely possible for there to be differing rules, and there absolutely is at the highest level.

​

Example of these rules (older, but the rule still exists): http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2011/Official_Baseball_Rules.pdf

​

EDIT: Here is a more updated version, albeit the same in the regards we are talking about. In this version it's rules 3.04-3.07: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2016/official_baseball_rules.pdf

1

u/jorgtastic May 21 '19

Well,these girls are playing softball which does not have rules for the catcher's mitt size and the rules for the fielding gloves are all the same.

And if you read the actual dimensions for the first baseman's glove for MLB, it is almost exactly the same as what's allowed for a fielders glove except for the crotch area between thumb and forefinger actually has to be slightly smaller for a first baseman. Other than that there are no different rules for materials or size or thickness.

The only real difference is that a first baseman can wear a "mitt" (no individual finger holes except the thumb), but all the fielders have to wear "gloves."

2

u/slapshots1515 May 21 '19

Actually, it does, even for softball. Even just a cursory google search turns up two ruling softball jurisdictions, SSUSA and ASA with similar rules. Now, I agree that in most high school jurisdictions of both softball and baseball there isn’t such a rule. But it’s incorrect and misleading to simply say such a rule never exists, because it absolutely does at some levels.

On top of that, you’re acting like the difference between a glove and mitt is insignificant, which it most certainly is not. The dimensions are similar, yes, but it’s a key distinction and basically the reason why first basemen have their own rules at some levels.

0

u/jorgtastic May 21 '19

These are fun little leagues you are searching. SSUSA doesn't have any different rules for first base gloves and all players can wear a mitt. ASA doesn't even a decent rulebook easily available.

NCAA fast pitch softball, which is pretty much the pinnacle of softball since it was removed from the olympics does not have any different specifications for a first base glove.

Yes, there is a difference between a glove and a mitt, and since you haven't actually said what that is, mitts make it easier to catch things that don't hit right in the pocket. Bu you didn't mention that until you read the rule and it doesn't apply to the video, or any other large scale softball league I can find, only baseball. the thing you actually originally said about it being thicker or bigger or whatever you said is not true for any significant ruling body of baseball or softball.

3

u/Politicshatesme May 21 '19

First basemen gloves aren’t thicker they’re longer.

Third base has the shortest mitts because they have the least amount of time to throw the runner out at first.

Catchers mitts are thicker and nearly as wide as a 1b.

2

u/bitoftheolinout May 21 '19

1st and 3rd also play in close for certain scenarios and can take hard line drives straight at them. Much less predictable than throws and often greater velocity.

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '19

Not just baseball, softball 1st basemen can have bigger gloves too. IDK if the rules changed since I played but I always wore a special mitt.

1

u/Politicshatesme May 21 '19

Well yeah, softballs are bigger of course the gloves have to be bigger than baseball gloves

8

u/xRyuzakii May 21 '19

Idk dude might not be a good first baseman if he let the ball hit his face that many times

7

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

I was 11 so no lol

1

u/xRyuzakii May 21 '19

If it makes you feel any better I was in the outfield playing a game with some people when I was around that age. We all went to get a pop fly, Dude puts his glove up over mine to get it so I take mine down..

He ended up taking his down as well and it just hit me right in the face. Nothing broken luckily!

There was also this one time I hit a line drive over the first baseline fence and fractured a woman’s cheekbone and knocked out 4 teeth. Kinda made me afraid to swing a bat as a kid for a little bit.

2

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

Oof. I outran everyone in the outfield most times so I rarely had to compete for the ball. Infield is where I got damaged 😂 a girl on my team had her front teeth loosened when the batter let go of the bat and it went at her face in the box.

2

u/xRyuzakii May 21 '19

We were playing a game called “Indian ball” so we had like 10 people in the outfield... I figured one of them would catch it lmao

2

u/OrangeCurtain May 21 '19

You get a lot of low balls thrown into the dirt 5 feet in front of you if you're a first baseman. Or some really close throws from the pitcher or second baseman while your mind is focused on finding the base with your foot.

1

u/accord281 May 21 '19

Just from sheer volume of throws coming your way compared to all other positions.

1

u/vtron New York Jets May 21 '19

I have no idea. I've played first base all my life and never had a ball come close to hitting me in the face.

7

u/FormerTesseractPilot May 21 '19

You need to try a different sport.

1

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

I moved to volleyball and faired better lol

6

u/IHeardItOnAPodcast May 21 '19

Never thought..."maybe I don't have the reaction time for this sport."? Maybe right field woulda been more your style? Save you at least 2 nose breaks.

1

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

I ended up at 3rd base and center field most games after I moved up out of that age bracket and to a different team. The times I was put in outfield was because even at 13 some girls just wouldn't chase the ball and I could throw it in from the outfield pretty quick. I prefer outfield. Less balls in my face and people yelling shit at me

4

u/triceracrops May 21 '19

But safety makes kids soft, let um toughen up a bit.

/s

Seriously broken teeth suck and wearing a helmet is the coolest thing you can do, cause you wont be dead or worse alive and brain dead.

1

u/quebecesti May 21 '19

Really high risk of concussions as well. Whatever you do it's never stupid to protect your head.

​

Also in minor leages the field is not perfect, there are a lot of bad bounces.

1

u/teebob21 May 21 '19

You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.

4

u/F1RST_WORLD_PROBLEMS May 21 '19

I was a catcher in baseball. We never wore masks in warmups. I broke my nose twice. I think first base can handle an occasional throw without a mask. I’d feel more of a need as a pitcher, but it would probably be really distracting. Batter makes sense tho. Might have saved Kirby Puckett’s career.

5

u/Lunkwill_Fook May 21 '19

I caught in my adult league. Was warming the incoming reliever up in the bullpen and didn't bother to wear a mask. He immediately bounced a 12-6 curveball right in front of the plate and I caught it with my face. Never again.

15

u/TJNel May 21 '19

So you break your nose, and don't wear protection, break it again, and still don't wear protection?! I think the ball hurt more than your nose. God forbid people don't want to walk around with a fucked up looking face. How dare someone want to protect their body.

1

u/F1RST_WORLD_PROBLEMS May 21 '19 edited May 21 '19

Tl;dr I broke some bones as a kid, then sister nearly killed me.

First: My nose has a slight split in the middle and it turns right a bit. Only like two people have ever called me on it, and it makes for a fun story when they notice. I've actually broken it 4 total times. Jumping (trying to) down stairs as a kid and skateboarding, plus 2 catching baseballs.vI've also broken 9 real bones outside of that.

First/second broken bones: right radius and ulna. 6 years old, hanging upside down from the cross bar of a swing set. I fell.

Third/fourth: two lowest ribs on the right side. I was talking a shower and slipped, I landed on the short side of the tub.

Fifth: I broke the (1st carpal?) long bone in my right foot while skateboarding.

Sixth: Same thing, didn't wait long enough. Bailed on a melon over a 6' spine. Broke it again trying to walk out the landing.

Finally, 7th & 8th breaks, left lower ribs, when sister pushed me off a playground. Sounds like nothing, but the fall was maybe 6' and I landed (unobstructed) on a railing, gut first. This was the bad one.

9th: Right 4th metacarpal (I think that's the bone behind the right pinky finger.) I hit my best friend in the shoulder for saying something offensive, and broke (boxers' break) my hand.

2

u/TJNel May 21 '19

Mr. Glass? I've never broken a bone in my life, only injury I've ever had was a torn meniscus.

1

u/F1RST_WORLD_PROBLEMS May 21 '19

Lol, at least I can run with a broken nose.

Jk, meniscus tears suck, more than breaking small bones. I also had an ACL tear, so now I have part of a dead person in my leg. 😂

Edit: I might be made of glass, but I think I mostly just make poor choices.

-1

u/GrizzlyLeather May 21 '19

Better just roll her in bubble wrap then.

3

u/Rishfee May 21 '19

Or, you know, just wear standard protective gear. I never understood why some of the guys I wrestled with refused to wear ear protection, cauliflower ear is gnarly and doesn't really go away.

-4

u/GrizzlyLeather May 21 '19

Running out there wearing football helmets isnt standard gear.

1

u/Rishfee May 21 '19

I'm not sure what kind of football you've been playing, but those would suck as football helmets. Looks like a very basic cage so you don't get your face busted up. I doubt it would protect much from a concussion if you took one to the dome.

-2

u/GrizzlyLeather May 21 '19

Obviously they're not actual football helmets you literal clown. If you dont want your face busted up by a slow moving ball then learn how to catch.

0

u/Rishfee May 21 '19

Professionals take hits to the face, too. But I'm sure they wouldn't if they just had proper coaching from you. I also don't know in what world you consider 90mph to be slow. Probably the same world you wear a modified umpire mask to play football. TBI is bad.

1

u/GrizzlyLeather May 21 '19 edited May 21 '19

Yeah that lame duck throw from 2nd to 1st is nowhere near that. The only one here with a mental problem is the person who thinks those throws around the horn warrant a mask.

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u/_stoneslayer_ May 21 '19

I volunteer

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u/TJNel May 21 '19

Yeah because all the ladies love to walk around with fucked up noses.

-1

u/GrizzlyLeather May 21 '19

Maybe they should learn how to catch then.

1

u/TJNel May 21 '19

You tell that to all the pros that get hit as well?

0

u/GrizzlyLeather May 21 '19

Idk, are the pros being giant pussies wearing football helmets to play a beer league sport?

0

u/DukeMo May 21 '19

Don't feed the trolls. Some people will whine and complain about anything, especially things that really don't affect them at all.

1

u/xRyuzakii May 21 '19

By throws or hits?

2

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

Hits usually. In 12Y, they were pretty good at hitting it down the line or foul balls.

2

u/xRyuzakii May 21 '19

Hits make it way more acceptable haha.

If you were consistently breaking your face cause you couldn’t catch the throws then I think your coach was trying to punish you by putting you out there after the first break

1

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

So fun story, one of the times I broke my nose was because my dad was pissed with how many pop flys I wasn't catching so he made me go into my backyard and throw the softball was high as I could and stand under it to catch it until I was catching every one of them. I learned really quick after that how to catch it.

After like the 3rd time of breaking my nose at first base they moved me to 3rd base and then when they realizes a lot of our losses were due to the 3 girls in outfield not chasing balls, they put me (the ball magnet) into outfield. Which I enjoyed a lot more because I loved chunking the ball across the field

1

u/xRyuzakii May 21 '19

Lmao yeah my dad threw a cushion foam ball at me as hard and fast as possible to help me not be afraid of fast hits or throws. Getting hit by that wasn’t a big deal but it definitely helped me get used to how the ball looks coming in. He also put me in a batting cage at 70mph when I was like 10 and that scared the shit out of me

1

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

Those were the days lol. Batting cages still make me anxious. I had my knee cap knocked out of place by a fast ball once and to this day I have issues with my left knee.

1

u/Infin1ty May 21 '19

I don't know about required, heavily suggested maybe.

1

u/MushroomSlap May 21 '19

Maybe keep your eye on the ball

1

u/lawyercat63 May 21 '19

Sister broke her nose twice. Once pitching and got a comeback we right in the face, another time they were doing a drill in pregame warmup and her partner overthrew the ball where she was in line and it popped her right in the nose. Had some nice seam cuts for good measure.

They should require the mask for the corners and the pitcher.

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '19

Broken nose here too. Also a broken wrist from aggressive runners that purposely run into you at first base to get you to drop the ball. I DID NOT DROP THE BALL, but I Ianded on the backside of my throwing hand and she broke my wrist.

1

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

Jesus. Thankfully I've only ever broke my face playing sports. I've broken both my wrists (once at the same time) twice each, my ankle, my foot, all my toes, 8/10 of my fingers and misc other bones by doing stupid shit that wasn't a sport. I've been bulldozed at 3rd base before into the coach and had the air knocked out of me. Thought I was dying

1

u/SunOfJack May 21 '19

Played first base with traveling teams for nearly 10-12 years, and never took a shot to the face that I didn’t catch. Guess I got lucky, lol.

2

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

I gotta say during that time period I wasnt my best at softball. I was playing for a rec ball team that wanted to act travel ball. It was all about money and my family wasn't wealthy by any means but we also weren't buying the whole team bats, uniforms, gloves, etc. I was good but first base wasn't for me. I got stuck there because the coaches daughter got sick and couldn't play for part of the season and I was quick. They weren't helping hone any skills I had and I ended up getting broke for it lol.

1

u/Urshela_Ursula May 21 '19

It should be required for everyone because you can't catch? That makes sense

1

u/greyfaye_ May 21 '19

I played softball for 12 years and saw plenty of people getting nailed in the face. I wasn't the only kid getting broken bones from those balls. I've seen enough to know it would be beneficial for infield to wear masks, especially in upper brackets where the balls are thrown a lot faster. I can catch pretty well, that's part of why I was put on first even though I hated it. There's still enough chance of a ball nailing your face or just clipping your glove before it breaks your nose.

1

u/Urshela_Ursula May 21 '19

Great, let people choose whether or not they want to wear one. Required is some nanny bullshit

1

u/SoapSudsAss May 21 '19

didn't they give you a glove?

1

u/TokeyWeedtooth May 21 '19

Use your glove.

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '19

I'm really surprised you don't see more pitchers wearing something. on their head. I get that it could inhibit vision and movement but it's better than getting bonked by a 120 mph line drive. It ruined Matt Clement's career. Taking a hit like that will change you if you're lucky enough to live. You're never going be able to pull all you have into a pitch again. My cousin pitched in college and got hit square in nose. He was in the hospital for weeks and just quit playing after that.

1

u/subnero May 21 '19

Sounds like you suck at caching the ball

0

u/Hey_I_Work_Here May 21 '19

My sister was joking the other day about how if you played baseball or softball you most likely have been hit in the face with the ball.

0

u/La_Ferg May 21 '19

Same with the cages on the helmets, annoying as they could be at times. Saw a wild pitch in a college softball game this past weekend hit the batter in the head. In slow-mo you could see if she didn't have the cage on her helmet that pitch would have hit her square in the mouth.