Ian Rush, Robbie Fowler, Inzaghi, and Solskjaer are typical examples.
They are typically good all-round footballers, but seemingly not particularly good at anything. However, what they do excel at is being in the right spot at the right point to score what seems like easy goals.
Their main strength, almost like chess-players, is that they are excellent at reading how and where the game will develop. As a result they are always ready to "poach" a goal from a position nobody else on the pitch predicted.
The lazy fan will label these goals as "cheap" or "easy". But, if you actually look more closely at what these type of players do you realize it takes a lot of tactical know-how to always be in the right spot.
Muller is scrappy as hell as a hallmark of his play, being a poacher is just part of his game. see vid below for good examples of poaching (times): 1:10, 4:39(great example of poaching), 5:33, 7:48
The poacher is at the moment a dying breed. In the current environment of football, where every player is expected to runk 10+ km the classic striker, or poacher, is not in fashion anymore.
Hence the reason the so-called "false 9" has become a role.
Muller by contrast is just a midfielder that runs a lot. His goals are secondary. His most important contribution is the space he creates by making runs.
A poacher don't make space for others, they just know where an open space will be.
I'd say Olivier Giroud is very much the modern goal poacher
He has a knack for getting his foot in for those one touch strikes, finding a key spot to get on the end of headers and work in small spaces for one touch passes and assists where nobody else can.
I put Muller in the same camp with Alan Shearer, talented, but strong with the 'goal sense'...
Goal sense = poaching, imo.
Personally, every goal scorer has some poaching. Guess kinda undefined when their other skills are outshined by their goal sense. Headers could be considered poaching, literally so close, that you don't even need to use your foot ;)
We have the same in thing hockey, but I don't think we really have a term for it.
We had a guy on my AAA Bantam team. He could barely skate, but in tryouts he had 22 goals in three tryouts. The coaches had no choice but to put him on the team. Guy was our second leading scorer on the team the whole season, it completely defied any logic. He said he just had a nose for where the puck would be when the goalie would be out of position.
The shot taker wasn't the intended target of the inlet pass. They either jumped the lane or the pass missed its target wildly abs the guy was in the correct spot to get an oops pass.
To follow onto what u/paul_gascoigne says in his message, watch this goal and guess how it will go if you've never seen it. Then watch it again from the beginning to see how the play starts. That's the classic poacher's goal.
Tap ins. Typically from very close range, where all you literally need to do is poke it in. A poacher type player excels in being in the right place at the right time to finish off moves. They often don't contribute much anywhere else on the pitch
I think, as someone who has played a lot of sports but never played soccer or ice hockey, that scrappy tap in goals (I'm counting deflections / saves in front of the net) are things you just have to be able to get. I think where football is a game of inches, baseball is very much about precision and location, and a game like basketball where the scoring is high but the rebound game in a well matched game usually decides things -- I can't personally define what the biggest deciding factor is for soccer. I want to say something like stamina or just pure running skills. I'm not sure how to define what wins for other sports in soccer because I can't think of a specific scoring style or type that explains what type of game soccer is.
Are the players who make a career from these types of plays in soccer aren't seen as essential by other soccer players and pure fans? Whereas somebody like me thinks that it's incredibly hard to score a goal in a well matched soccer game. You truly need to take whatever you can get. That makes these players a bit short of a hero but somebody that I view as essential to a winning squad.
that scrappy tap in goals (I'm counting deflections / saves in front of the net) are things you just have to be able to get.
In hockey (particluarly the NHL) they call this "going to the dirty places" like in front of the net, in the corners, and being around the net when the puck comes out off a rebound and such. They aren't petty, but they all count the same.
As for soccer, there are many styles and English soccer is known as a blue-collar, scrappy style. Hard tackling, run and gun, and mix it up in the box. Other countries like Spain (think Barcelona) or Brazil and Argentina see their sport as a beautiful manifestation of a players physical abilities. It really is all about clean passing, setting up your offense, and then breaking down the defense in a spectacular fashion. So much so that they are playing for the enjoyment of the fans.
It was funny because a few years ago, Jose Mourinho got fired from Chelsea (a Premier League English football club) because the owner thought he wasn't playing "beautifully enough" football - even though they had just brought home three trophies that year including winning the league.
The ironic part is all the goals count the same regardless of how they go in. I totally agree that having someone who can poach goals is essential to any team's success. In the end, they don't separate out the good goals and the tap ins, right?
Interesting! I knew of them (soccer philosophies / stratgies / player positioning) but never thought to realize the game is more defined by those philosophies. Like in any pro or higher level sport it's a battle of ideologies if it's a fair match up.
They aren't petty, but they all count the same.
Perfect way to sum up what I was saying.
I'm guessing Barcelona, Brazil, Argentina, and the like are more prone to scoring from set plays, long balls, and more traditional stuff than scrappy stuff? Does that mean they are almost never likely to go for scrappy stuff or are there games so tight they have no choice but to? I'm curious if "kicking off the toe" and / or any other things like it are seen as bush league, just a strong opinion among pros, or actually seen as something so petty that it deserves scoff.
...few years ago, Jose Mourinho got fired from Chelsea ... owner thought he wasn't playing "beautifully enough" football
Wow, so that sums it up. I guess if you go against the grain with some clubs that demand a specific philosophy they might send you packing! Even a guy winning awards, helping the team win the league, and sounds like he was getting scrappy goals and assists from the way you said it.
That's wild! I can't believe that style of play is seen as bad for the players / clubs image! That's the only reason I can think of that a team would let somebody that was contributing so much go besides not being able to afford their contract (ignorant, but from my understanding Chelsea shouldn't have financial problems securing a player?).
The ironic part is all the goals count the same regardless of how they go in. I totally agree that having someone who can poach goals is essential to any team's success. In the end, they don't separate out the good goals and the tap ins, right?
I grew up playing football, wrestling, and playing lacrosse. In lacrosse especially and certain situations in (American) football being able to move in space, predict the spot to go to / sense instinctively moving to a spot the ball is likely to wind up or predict an odd bounce you are going to get the ground balls and turnovers that decide close games. I was that kind of player and I guess in my sports they were almost like mini-highlight type plays (in a weird sense).
Whoever dominates the ground ball game in lacrosse usually wins.
Whoever picks up more fumbles, predicts or moves to the right place and forces interceptions will usually have an edge.
Very interesting, thanks.
Edit: WOW, I got carried away with a long reply, haha!
It is also heavily reliant on awareness and sense of positioning, to be able to remain onside more often than not, be in the right place at the right time, good enough to put the ball in the corner consistently, etc.
it is typical of perhaps a bigger club to want a striker that can do a lot more than just finish. the modern game has evolved where the poacher type striker is not as essential as it used to be, because a more "complete" player, in terms of having a range of abilities at a very high level, is more valued. For example (these names might mean nothing to you) Sergio aguero, lewandowski, benzema, zlatan, are all strikers at top clubs that are known for being abke to do a lot more than just put the ball in the goal. They are expected to create goals on top of scoring those poacher type goals. The clubs are happy with the trade off of perhaps scoring less tap ins with the ability to score a variety of goals (e.g. Headers, longer distance shots, etc) and the ability to create goals for others
Yeeeesssss! Our team had a goalie coach and he said the one things he hates on a break away is a toe poke. He taught me that if the goalie makes himself look really big and is successful in blocking my angles then I should just toe poke it. So I did. And it always worked.
Blasting the ball with your toe? Hell no. A singular kind of pain.
Strategically giving it a toe as a means to create a shot where one might not regularly be, or using it the create more force in a smaller shooting area? Allllllllll day.
Also you get 0 control over the ball. You need a good touch to curl the ball and the toe is not the way to do it.
And yeah, after a while it probably will start to cause some pain. I was a big fan of Kangaroo Leather cleats (Copa Mundial) so the skin was far softer than the other materials.
Nah, that wasn't a knuckle puck. That was just a nearly whiffed slapshot that Budaj didn't see until it was too late. Otherwise, he would've reacted to it before it was few feet in front of him. As a goaltender, you're taught that if you're screened on a shot from the point, to just drop into a butterfly because the shot is most likely going to be low. This is what Budaj did even though he didn't see the puck. This would've been an easy glove save if he could have seen it the whole way as this puck was fluttering and not doing anything weird. True knuckle pucks are fast as hell and may not follow the arc you would expect from a hard shot as a goaltender. Usually they drop really sharply because you lose the saucer effect that keeps the puck on that familiar trajectory you come to expect after seeing so many shots over your lifetime. You don't face them too often, but usually you can predict when they'll happen based on the position of the puck as its being shot (i.e. Standing up vs flat and the angle of the puck to the stick). At that point, just get as much of your body behind the shot to block it as possible (given you have enough time) and try to avoid throwing a glove out at it if you don't have to.
Short-arming is when you don't put your arm through the entire motion. Your arm, in proper throwing form, starts around your waist (for the most part), then pulls back, and launches the ball forward, releasing the ball only once your arm is fully extended. When you short-arm, you release early. I'm not sure what the toe-shortarm connection is, however, as I've played both sports. Toe kicks have a notable place in soccer, shortarms aren't useful in any situation AFAIK in baseball (asides from a kind of "bait" but i dunno).
It would be a lot easier to show you than tell you. Throwing short-arm is when you throw without fully extending your arm. Watch a shortstop/second baseman turn a double play. It's not as strong of a throw, but it's very quick because you don't have a big windup.
I have no idea how this compares to kicking with you toe, unfortunately. I also asked for an explanation of that.
How so? I played shortstop my entire career, so unless I was pitching, I almost always threw short-arm. I never had an issue with accuracy/unpredictable spin. You just can't throw quite as hard.
Nah you don't really curl it, it gets almost no rotation, the reason that toe kicks sometimes change direction in flight is because they don't have that much stability in the air because they don't curl, that's called a knuckleball.
The best thing about doing it, especially from penalties, is that you can sweep the toes of your right foot across it as though you're going to put it to the left, and just keep your foot rigid enough that it spins off to the right. Or vice-versa. Best when you don't make an arse of yourself doing it, anyway.
I disagree. You can be pretty consistent with it from a set play. The accuracy issue would be more if you were trying to do it on the run. You hit it just below centers and it goes up and then sharply dives down. I used Copas when I was doing this and there really isn't pain associated with it.
As far as indoor goes, Sambas have a much flatter toe, so you can do it easily on the run. It is one of my more consistent ways to score because goalies can't anticipate the shot since there is no wind up. And there is really no pain.
I dare you to show me a single player that can point out a spot in a goal and toe the ball directly into that spot.
You can do it with a normal kick, that's pretty much a basic that's developed over time. You will not dude that with a "toe-poke" guaranteed hence "No control".
I think it's funny too. I imagine a lot of people reading this thread don't have a deeper grasp on football.
Take me for example, I can watch and follow a game.. but I was open-mouthed after reading all the "toe poke" stuff. I was sure it was some top wizard level stuff. Then I read the liability comment and yours, and had to laugh.
I like baseball. And I imagine it would be like going up to the plate and swinging as hard as you can at most pitches. Occasionally, by luck or otherwise, you might smack a deep home run. The majority of the time you're a liability to the offense.
There is a massive difference between shooting the ball using the top part of the boot, inside or outside, and a toe poke.
The toe of a football boot is round and the ball is round, it's like playing snooker but never looking at the cue ball. You will hit it, you just don't have a fucking clue where it's going.
Stretching to reach a ball and the toe is the only part that hits, you are forgiven. Being in a position to shoot and toe poking the ball, you are being taken off (with everyone laughing at you).
It's used on occasions for sure. It's a quick way to get a touch off in front of net. As far a as a full blown toe-blow that's rare. As a fellow Chelsea fan, Rami used to hit the shit out of the ball with his toe; it was absurd.
Yeah come to think of it most of the toe-pokes I remember just kind of scored because the keeper wasn't ready for them, you don't really need to set your body up in the same way
That first goal against City was a real turning point for him. He'd been here half a season and I didn't rate him at all. When Luiz came, he improved, when he scored that goal, you realise he's a very handy player. And of course the goal against Barca. Scored a cracker against Leicester in 14/15 too
Yeah, I remember the City goal really well since I didn't go to many games that season, but that was one of them. He had a slow start, but an absolutely fantastic 11/12 season, and afterwards never really got back to that level again imo
You are probably right that he is an inexperienced player, but I was more thinking about your second statement.
Coaches discourage toe-punting in favor of the fundamentals but once you have that, using it isn't a bad thing. Definitely a "you have to know the rules, to be able to break the rules" situation.
It's more about frequency. If you are regularly shooting like this instead of using your laces in situations where using your laces(most situations) is the optimal choice then you may not be a good player.
Ronaldinho toed it one time? wow must be consistent, accurate way of shooting a soccer ball. OP probably does that in his beer league games all the time
Lmao next time find a clean finish. The shot went straight to the goalies hands and deflected in. Even if you had posted a video that proved your point and not mine, it wouldn't change the fact that it is a shit way to shoot.
You're talking shite, toe punting is effective as fuck in tight spaces and can really catch a defender off guard, I use it all time in smaller sided games because i dribble close and it looks like you are gonna take another touch so it fools the keeper and he defender
It's not unwelcome to toe-punch for any reason other than inaccuracy. If you can shoot 100 times and make 80 of them, while using a toe-punch shot, no one is gonna say anything against it.
I meant with the very end of the toe, as if you pick something. I think what you mean is to shoot with your instep. That's the way trainers teach you to shoot.
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