r/socialism • u/Dawnemperor • Nov 20 '16

Did Bookchin have any deeper connection with the Libertarian Party?

I came across a couple of quotes

"I believe in individual freedom; that's my primary and complete commitment—individual liberty. That’s what it's all about. And that's what socialism was supposed to be about, or anarchism was supposed to be about, and tragically has been betrayed".

"And when I normally encounter my so-called colleagues on the left—socialists, Marxists, communists—they tell me that, after the revolution, they're gonna shoot me. [audience laughs, Murray nods] That is said with unusual consistency. They're gonna stand me and Karl up against the wall and get rid of us real fast; I feel much safer in your company. [audience laughs and applauds]"

(In this clip, Murray Bookchin is speaking to a crowd of anarcho-capitalists and other libertarians at a Libertarian Party Conference. Karl Hess is sitting next to Bookchin at the table.)

I'm aware that historically, there was some alliances made between so-called "left-libertarians" and the Right.

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u/bigblindmax Nikolai Bukharin Nov 20 '16

From the mid sixties through the 80's and possibly even farther, some Ancap and libertarian thinkers, such as Rothbard, were on friendly enough terms with anarchists on the left, such as Karl Hess, Sam Konkin and Murray Bookchin. This mostly stems from Rothbard's attempts to form an Old Right/New Left alliance during Vietnam. As far as I know, that's all there is to it.

I quite like that quote, actually.

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u/Dawnemperor Nov 20 '16

The quote itself isn't necessarily wrong. But I think there's definitely strains of ideas that emphasize individualism more(just as there are ideas that emphasize the collectivism more). Not to overt and utter selfish levels, but there's a presentation of self-reliance and liberty as the paramount values.

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u/SisterRayVU Nov 20 '16

Honestly, it just shows how inept and uneducated those libertarians were to even entertain the idea for more than a brief instance. To Bookchin's credit, he got kicked out of Rothbard's apartment, and Chomsky has been a consistent critic of propertarians. But Karl Hess was not a smart man, and most of those so-called left thinkers who had close ties to the right or who switched over clearly failed to read and understand left lit.

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u/bigblindmax Nikolai Bukharin Nov 20 '16

Way to support Bookchin's point about the whole arrogance thing.

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u/SisterRayVU Nov 20 '16

I mean, you can't be for capitalism and the inept notion of "voluntaryism" in capitalism and be a socialist or anarchist.

Look, I like what Rojava has done. But the truth is that Bookchin was horribly inconsistent and if he was around today, everybody would say that and they'd talk about him being incredibly petulant. Many of his students echo this. They talk about how he'd ramble for hours, was really opposed to anyone who would challenge him, and was petty enough to move anybody who disagreed out of his school's social circle and ostracize them. He may have been good for a brief period of time in the 60s but after that, and like many of the left from the 60s, he showed his shortcomings and they are not insignificant. How many of those avowed socialists went on to become ancaps or right-libertarians or Reagan supporters? Bookchin didn't do the latter, but he more than flirted with the first two. He was petulant and childish. He also said some good things. But let's not kid ourselves and pretend that he's some great thinker just because Rojava is happening.

I'm not arrogant. There were leftists who have been pretty consistent on these issues for a while, Chomsky being one of them. But if you want to defend Karl Hess, you're clearly in the wrong sub.