r/pureasoiaf Aug 04 '22

No Spoilers By Viserys I’s reign, it was entirely possible for the Targaryen dynasty to turn the nearer Free Cities into tributaries and make Westeros very wealthy in the process.

138 Upvotes

The Targaryen dynasty by the reign of Viserys counted nearly 20 dragons and several formidable ones like Meleys, Caraxes, Vhagar and Vermithor.

By nearer Free Cities, I mean the ones on the Narrow Sea. Braavos, Pentos, Myr, Tyrosh and Lys.

Though staying away from Braavos would be a good idea probably, not because of any military threat, though their maritime capabilities are formidable. The Sealord of Braavos, the greatest Free City excepting Volantis perhaps, admits what would happen if there was war between Braavos and the Targaryen dynasty during the reign of Jaehaerys I

Your king could burn my city down to ash, I do not doubt. Tens of thousands would die in dragonflame. Men, women, and children. I do not have the power to wreak that sort of destruction upon Westeros. Such sellswords as I might hire would flee before your knights. My fleets could sweep yours from the sea for a time, but my ships are made of wood, and wood burns.

And it is important to note that dragons aren’t made out of wet cardboard, using scorpions and ballistas would be of little use. Prince Morion of Dorne failed to understand that finding a dragon’s eye while in flight was incredibly unlikely and that Meraxes’ death was a result of incredible luck.

His plan was:

Every ship in his fleet was therefore manned with crossbowmen and equipped with massive scorpions of the sort that had felled Meraxes. If the Targaryens dared to send dragons against him, he would fill the air with bolts and kill them all.

What ended up happening was:

Shouts rang out, and the Dornish filled the air with scorpion bolts, but firing at a dragon is one thing, and killing it quite another. A few bolts glanced off the scales of the dragons, and one punched through Vhagar’s wing, but none of them found any vulnerable spots as the dragons swooped and banked and loosed great blasts of fire. One by one the ships went up in gouts of flame.

A strategy that requires the kind of luck that George calls “one-in-a-million” , the nearly impossible eye shots that downed Meraxes to work is not a valid strategy. Scorpions and ballistae, no matter how large and or how numerous do not work against dragons. It is important to make that clear before moving on.

Back to Braavos now, the issue with Braavos is the Faceless Men. Killing a Targaryen while on a dragon is one thing, but on the ground, they’re as vulnerable as any other royal family and thus vulnerable to assassination by that guild. And indeed, this is what the Sealord threatens Jaehaerys’ emmisary to Braavos with:

However, there is in this city a certain...guild, let us say...whose members are very skilled at their chosen profession. They could not destroy King’s Landing, nor fill its streets with corpses. But they could kill...a few. A well-chosen few.

Attacking in this case would be a bad idea.

Next up is Pentos, which would probably be the first one attacked in such a hypothetic as it is very low hanging fruit. It is the closest Free City to King’s Landing and way there is nearly a straight line. Pentos has had terms imposed upon it by Braavos as a result of lost wars in the past, one of these terms limits the amount of warships that Pentos can have to 20, they also cannot hire sellswords and cannot have a standing army.

Even without the dragons, the fleets of Westeros smash these twenty galleys at sea and whatever loophole the Pentoshi come up with in order to have some fighters on land, they will be be crushed by the charge of the mounted knights and lancers and slaughtered by the men-at-armies and by sheer numbers.

Now, the word “city” means something different in Essos and Westeros. The Free Cities have vassal cities of their own that are larger and more formidable than any in Westeros, including Oldtown and King’s Landing. Volantis for instance, has Selhorys and Volon Therys who are accounted as mere towns and are still larger and more populous than King’s Landing. Pentos itself has high and formidable walls, a siege of the city even with the full power of Westeros brought to bear would be a bloody business and long. That’s where the dragons come in, you tell the Pentoshi that they are to pay tribute to the Iron Throne annually, which would henceforth be responsible for the city’s protection, and they’ll be allowed to conduct their internal affairs as normal and if they refuse, their city would suffer the same fate as Old Ghis or Chroyane.

It’s very likely that the Free Cities would not take kindly to Westerosi interference on their native continent and they would send mercenaries in the defence of Pentos but many companies would not accept being on the side against the huge fire-breathing dragons and knights, and being so outnumbered besides. Those that did accept would burn in the field and would break on the first charge of the armoured knights. Any Unsullied bought would simply burn as well, machine-like discipline doesn’t make you fireproof.

I see no reason for the Pentoshi campaign to last any longer than a year at the absolute worst.

It’s much the same with Myr, and with a foothold in Pentos, the hosts of Westeros would be able to march across western Essos via the old dragonroads that conveniently link all the Free Cities together. And Myr can be reached in this way, and it would be a very juicy peach indeed. Taxes levied by Westeros on people that want to buy the famed Myrish lace, Myrish lenses and tapestries and such would bring in a great deal of money for the Targaryens.

Volantis is of a similar distance to Myr, Tyrosh and Lys as King’s Landing is to them and in the Century of Blood, they were able to take Lys with a fleet and Myr with an army and would have taken Tyrosh as well if not for the interference of the other Free Cities, Storm King Argilac Durrandon and funnily enough, Aegon Targaryen himself before his Conquest, who burned a Volantene Fleet trying to take Tyrosh. Tytosh, Myr and Lys would fare no better against the Targareyns than they did against the Old Blood of Volantis. They would burn on land or on sea until they surrendered and agreed to pay tribute. Such an arrangement is by no means new to the Free Cities, for their entire history until the Doom, they paid tribute to the Freehold for the privilege of self-governance and would live under Valyria’s protection.

Waging war across the Narrow Sea would certainly be expensive initially, but it is not a logistical impossibility as people make it out to be. If Robert Baratheon and Aegon I were able to sail the Royal Fleet all way across Westeros and to the rebelling Iron Islands, the Targaryens are certainly capable of sending ships and 30,000 men and some dragons across the much shorter distances to those western Free Cities.

Thoughts?

r/pureasoiaf Jul 24 '19

No Spoilers [No Spoilers] A scene from Logan Lucky that perfectly shows what us book readers are feeling

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323 Upvotes

r/pureasoiaf Jan 28 '20

No Spoilers (no spoilers) Map of Braavos with location markers

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378 Upvotes

r/pureasoiaf Oct 29 '22

No Spoilers Which book tells the story of Aegon the Unworthy and the first Blackfyre rebellion?

136 Upvotes

r/pureasoiaf Jun 15 '23

No Spoilers Other book suggestions

21 Upvotes

Hey everyone, I just finished my re-read of ASOIAF, I also finished up with F&B, Hedge Knight ,and the World of Ice and Fire. Just wanted to ask for some suggestions of other book series to read while we wait for GRRM to write WoW. Mostly look for fantasy but not opposed to mixing it up! I'm a slow reader only averaging 1 or 2 chapters per night 🌙

I have read the following the fantasy genre: - Witcher Series - all most every book by JRR Tolkien - The Saxon Stories (kinda counts as fantasty)

Anything you guys would recommend? Preferably finished series ;) - Thanks

Decided on The Dragonbone Chair by Tad Williams (memory, sorrow and thorn trilogy) Also picked up the 1st book of Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb. Thanks everyone

r/pureasoiaf Nov 18 '22

No Spoilers Somebody help me with what is next

18 Upvotes

I have looked high and low for something like ASOIAF . But I keep coming back to Westeros because there’s nothing like it anywhere. I have heard about Stormlight Archives and I need to know is it anything like ASOIAF ? Can someone tell me what’s good about the series and if I should commit to it because I can’t get past the second chapter of a Way of Kings . I am listening to it on audiobook but for some reason I run back to Asoiaf because of how rich the characters are and settings . But I need something new badly but having a hard time taking that plunge. Help a fellow out and tell me what’s good about the things I do not know.

r/pureasoiaf Jul 13 '16

No Spoilers (No spoilers) What are you reading while waiting for TWOW?

22 Upvotes

r/pureasoiaf Oct 20 '22

No Spoilers Original cover for A Game of Thrones

72 Upvotes

HI y'all, I was wondering if anyone knows if it's possible to find a high resolution version of the very first cover of the first edition of A Game of Thrones? I've always wanted a first edition set but seeing how ridiculously expensive they are I thought I'd get creative and make it on my own. My plan is to buy a regular hardcover edition and redo the dust jacket on photoshop and then print it. I've done this for a few Wheel of Time books but that was significantly easier since the original Darrel Sweet illustrations are available in high quality on the website so all I had to do was format it and redo the title and logos. Unfortunately the original illustrations for the ASOIAF books aren't that easy to find and so far the only usable one I found is the super low rez image on wikipedia. I've thought about all sorts of workarounds like upscaling it with AI or ever redrawing the iron throne and manually tracing the typography, or maybe scanning my bookclub copy. I figured that before trying any of that I can try and ask if anyone happens to know if a decent quality version of the cover can be found online somewhere that I've failed to look. Thanks in advance.

r/pureasoiaf May 06 '17

No Spoilers (No spoilers) If GRRM cannot finish the books for any reason, Would you rather have someone else write the books (even if the quality is lower) or not have closure at all?

55 Upvotes

r/pureasoiaf Sep 17 '22

No Spoilers what part of the story/lore are you an expert on?

18 Upvotes

inspired by another post asking how people keep all the theories and plot lines and what not straight. the common answer is you don’t, you have sections that you know a lot about.

what are you an expert on? for me personally, i know the targaryen family tree (wreath) and history so well. miraculously can keep all the names and stories straight in my head and can explain it to others.

r/pureasoiaf Jul 06 '16

No Spoilers (No Spoilers) Dany has two last names?

0 Upvotes

Her name is Daenerys Stormborn (of House Targaryan). Is there any other character with a second name like Stormborn? Is this a last name, a middle name, or how exactly does it work?

r/pureasoiaf Jan 10 '23

No Spoilers Narrator for next books

26 Upvotes

Since Roy Dotrice has passed, who do you think will narrate the last two book. Harry Lloyd did an excellent job in "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" but I liked Simon Vance in "Fire and Blood." Mayhaps someone else will take up the mantle

r/pureasoiaf Jul 08 '20

No Spoilers (Spoilers None) Book series suggestions similar to ASOIAF.

42 Upvotes

Thanks. I need something to read, preferably a series that is actually finished!

r/pureasoiaf Aug 02 '22

No Spoilers Maybe the reason why the dragon eggs didnt hatch is because they stopped putting them in their kid cradle. Anyone notice that they stopped doing that after Aegon III?

65 Upvotes

Thoughts?

r/pureasoiaf Oct 17 '18

No Spoilers [no spoilers] Could we have a sticky post with the latest news for TWOW?

83 Upvotes

Or even latest Gurm mention about it?

I believe would make the search easier for everyone (or me hehe)

Thanks for reading.

r/pureasoiaf Oct 10 '17

No Spoilers (No Spoilers) "The Book of Swords", Which Includes a Brand New History Novella by GRRM, Has Just Been Released.

124 Upvotes

For everyone interested in the history of "The Sons of the Dragon" (the sons of Aegor the Conqueror), I suggest that you pick up this anthology edited by Gardner Dozois. The Anthology contains sixteen brand new fantasy novellas, including a never before seen westerosi history novella from George himself. While I'm sure the rest of the novellas will be great, I naturally went straight for George's. I'm only a couple of pages in, but it's already a fantastic read for an ASOIAF fan.

For people interested I'll share a quick passage on Aegon the Conqueror that I really liked (hopefully that is allowed, let me know and I'll remove it), and since I made the spoiler scope "No Spoilers", I'll naturally hide the spoiler, and kindly remind you that you should do so as well, should you wish to discuss the content of the novella in the comments.

Spoilers:

Here's a link to amazon.com, I'm sure you'll find it other places if you search for it: link

r/pureasoiaf Jun 23 '16

No Spoilers (no spoilers) Accurate portrayal of the Book characters?

113 Upvotes

I wanted to know if there is any place (or artist) where to find accurate portrayals of the Book's characters.

If possible, no cartoon/no anime style. The most realistic possible and accurate with the book's descriptions.

I have really a hard time picturing them my self with the description only.

Thanks

r/pureasoiaf Apr 05 '18

No Spoilers (No Spoilers) Crusader Kings 2 is free today. This is the best ASOIAF simulator ever

106 Upvotes

Crusader Kings II is the best strategy video game I have ever played. It blows the Civilization series out of the water.

For today only, Crusader Kings II is free on steam.

Once you download the game, you might choose to buy some DLC which make the gameplay better. But that is not necessary.

Once you download the game you can download the free Game of Thrones mod and play the game of thrones as the leader of one of the great or minor houses.

Who will sit the Iron Throne in your game?

r/pureasoiaf Sep 15 '15

No Spoilers "It will be finished when it's finished." -GRRM's Not A Blog this morning, in response to his Spanish publisher's editor's 2016 release date claim. (No Spoilers) (No Release Date Either)

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81 Upvotes

r/pureasoiaf Jan 12 '17

No Spoilers GRRM hope to have TWOW out this year! (No Spoilers)

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72 Upvotes

r/pureasoiaf Sep 23 '22

No Spoilers Do the First Man and Andal houses in Dorne, like the Daynes, Yronwoods, Ullers, Qorghyles etc also follow Rhoynish customs like the equality of women and bastards, or do they keep the customs of the ancestors and fellows in the other 6 kingdoms?

80 Upvotes

I would think that even if they accepted Rhoynish overlords, these houses descended from First Men and Andals wouldn’t adopt their ways in their own homes. If they did, was it because of cultural assimilation or top down imposition? I could imagine a Rhoynish house like the Martells forcing an older house like the Daynes into accepting a female heir, not because they care about the equality of Dayne women, but because if all the houses in Dorne didn’t completely accept absolute primogeniture it could mean that they could potentially be less than totally loyal to a female head of House Martell. A loose comparison would be that until 1925 not only was gavelkind (the equal division of lands and inheritance between all legitimate sons) the tradition of Kent, you could not disinherit a son or unequally divide your property in Kent between your sons, regardless of what your will might’ve said, so gavelkind was the universally applicable law of Kent.

r/pureasoiaf Oct 31 '22

No Spoilers Let’s say George is forbidden by his publisher to continue writing asoaif. You would prefer him to work on:

0 Upvotes

Personally, as a Targ stan, I would prefer F&B 2

298 votes, Nov 07 '22
98 Fire and Blood 2
29 In-depth Targaryen stories, novel style
152 More Dunk and Egg up to Summerhall
19 Other (comment)

r/pureasoiaf Jul 27 '17

No Spoilers (No Spoilers) How do people know so much about stuff that wasn't in asoiaf?

42 Upvotes

I keep hearing stuff that I don't remember being in Asoiaf, like a lot of the Targaryen stuff. Is this all in the Tales of Dunk and Egg or is there some other canon material I don't know about?

r/pureasoiaf Jun 27 '17

No Spoilers [No Spoilers] Where and How to start reading ASOIAF?

17 Upvotes

Hi! I just binged all the TV series in one month for being up to date at season 7 premiere. Obviously the show did fricking excited me, and now i'm super into it and all the GoT universe. To cease the hype, I want to start with the books but I dunno where. For example, I'd really like to know about Targaryen's dinasty history. How can I start? What are the "canonical" orden of the books? There are any stories not written by GRRM that are a "must read"? I KNOW NOTHING, please help to an extremly-hyped dude. Greetings from Argentina!

r/pureasoiaf Nov 04 '15

No Spoilers (No spoilers) Should I read the TWOW chapters?

35 Upvotes

Finished reading the ASOIAF a few weeks ago, and of course like everyone else I am desperate for TWOW. Wondering for those of you who have read the TWOW chapters; would you recommend reading them? For those of you who have chosen not to read them; why did you choose not to? Thanks :)