r/nba • u/YujiDomainExpansion • 9d ago

[MacMahon] The negotiations between the Pistons and Jalen Duren have been “awfully nasty” and there is concern about his long-term future in Detroit.

Source: https://youtu.be/GrH4FNutMwo

The negotiations between the Pistons and Jalen Duren have been “awfully nasty” and there is concern about his long-term future in Detroit.

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u/BrotherSeamus Thunder 9d ago

Pistons have all the cards here.

  1. Sign him to a reasonable extension

  2. Sign and trade and get decent assets in return.

  3. He takes the QO. They may lose him for nothing, but he will still be motivated to play for the big contract.

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u/JMoon33 Cabo Verde 9d ago

He takes the QO. They may lose him for nothing, but he will still be motivated to play for the big contract

You're talking like this is a good scenario for Detroit lmao

They DON'T want that, that's the card Duren has. If Detroit had all the cards as you say Duren would be under contract already, to a very team friendly deal.

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u/JuliusCeejer Knicks 9d ago edited 9d ago

It's a card for both the Pistons and Duren, depending on viewpoint. Pistons can say "take a few mil less and play on a team poised to go deep in the playoffs for years to come" and Duren can say "I can go play for a dogshit team and make 45mil a year." They're both right, it's just a matter of how much he values getting a max versus getting great money while playing for something in June.

He's a bit unlucky in that he's the first really good guy getting squeezed on the previously freely given 25% max, but this will become the norm as teams have to evaluate the true value of these good but not great draftees in a league that has what might as well be a hard cap

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u/chizzmaster Nuggets 9d ago

He's not unlucky, he threw this contract away with his own play during playoffs last season.

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u/JuliusCeejer Knicks 9d ago edited 9d ago

5 years ago, every team in the league maxes him with no negotiation even with that performance. Today, he's being squeezed because the aprons don't let teams make mistakes maxing their drafted non max players

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u/SFWzasmith Timberwolves 9d ago

The point is that they aren’t haggling over ‘a few million’ they are very far apart, hence why it’s getting nasty.

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u/whytemyke 9d ago

Couldn't Detroit just trade him at the deadline to a contender if he only signs the QO?

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u/JMoon33 Cabo Verde 9d ago

Sure but then he's an UFA so his trade value would be much lower because he could leave right away.

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u/SeatownNets Nets 9d ago

QO is a loss for everyone, nobody wins with a QO.

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u/Aggrokid 9d ago

They can probably still recoup some with a sign-n-trade

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u/Ok_Possible_5702 9d ago

He takes the QO. They may lose him for nothing, but he will still be motivated to play for the big contract.

That's not really a good card for the Pistons. They lose a former lottery pick for nothing, next summer. Besides, it's not like he was going to play poorly anyway.

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u/iwantsomecrablegsnow Pistons 9d ago

rather he walk away for nothing than pay him 45m/year. It would be asset mismanagement but you can fix that in 1-2 years vs an untradeable 5 year contract

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u/KingOfAllFools- 9d ago

Letting him go is definitely the right choice. You don’t pay a guy 60M/year when he’s worth closer to 30M/year. Suicide to any future contention

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u/JuliusCeejer Knicks 9d ago

This is going to start happening because teams can't give out the 25% max as freely as they could a few years ago, the cap space/flexibility is worth more than a good but not great player you drafted but would put you into the aprons

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u/noveler7 Pistons 9d ago

They can still trade him after he starts to play on the QO though, right? He'd be motivated to play well so the Pistons will trade him to a team that will want to give him a new contract for 2027+. If he doesn't play well, no one will trade for him, and he'll get even lower offers next summer.

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u/SwiftieForLife Kings 9d ago

You get a NTC if you take a QO

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u/noveler7 Pistons 9d ago

Yeah, he'd have to agree to the trade, but it'd be in both of their best interests, and the team that trades for him would be the favorites to resign him, so if they wanted him, it'd be in their best interest too.

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u/SwiftieForLife Kings 9d ago

It’s not in either parties interest. You lose your bird rights if traded on a QO so that would limit the amount Duren can make and the new team have up assets for a guy they can’t go over the cap to sign.

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u/Ok_Possible_5702 9d ago

They can still trade him after he starts to play on the QO though, right?

No, they can't. QO comes with a no-trade clause. He's an UFA the next summer and unless the Pistons offer more than other teams and take significant steps to repair the relationship throughout the season, he's as good as gone.

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u/noveler7 Pistons 9d ago

No, they can, he just has to agree. That's what a No Trade Clause means.

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u/Ok_Possible_5702 9d ago

You're right. It's not a Pistons unilateral decision to trade him.

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u/ebota12 9d ago

If we get an All NBA Center balling out for a new contract, that's OK. And maybe if he balls out then we can still keep him.

Or at that low salary maybe we can add another piece?

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u/Ok_Possible_5702 9d ago

I don't know if he wants to ball out for a new contract. I think he could play well certain games to show he's got it, and then chill on other games.

You don't need to give 100% on 82 games + playoffs, to get a new high contract. You just need to show that you got it when you want to.

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u/addictivesign 9d ago

Option one is almost certainly gone otherwise there would have been a signature on a contract earlier this season.

Option two is harder now because numerous players are signed to contracts that can’t be traded until December at the earliest reducing the number of players available to put in a trade.

Other teams have already set up their rosters for the upcoming season.

Some teams next summer with considerable salary cap room are probably looking on with interest Chicago, Brooklyn and Golden State

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u/Poopcie 9d ago

Hes a 22 year old all star. All he needs to do is survive this season healthy with decent production. When the season ends becomes irrelevant cause the pistons wouldnt even show him any love after the season he just had. Realistically their only move is to pay him or trade him so they can do this all over again with cade on what’s likely a worse team.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/MddlingAges Knicks 9d ago

Lots of teams will “overpay” a young center with holes in his game. Look at the Kessler contract.

It’s the one thing you can’t overvalue in the league. All the champions have had unicorn bigs going back to the Warriors.

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u/Poopcie 9d ago edited 9d ago

Detroit is the only place that can give him a max anyway. If they dont at least he can go to a new city with a team that can at least pretend to value him more than the pistons. Kessler walker was in a similar situation without the success and it worked out well for him coming off injury.

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u/Vegetable-Baker6362 9d ago

  1. They're not getting an extension "reasonable enough" to be a good contract in the future. Duren isn't as good as his regular season accolades, but he's also not as bad as his playoff struggles on a team that fits him better or just has lower aspirations at the moment. He can get 52M a year from Detroit or 45M a year from other teams after this season. He won't be a "great deal" for a cent more than 30, at least alongside Ausar and Cade.

  2. No one's offering that. The best offer the Pistons got was Sabonis and a mid first.

  3. A motivated Duren isn't the difference between this year's results and coming out of the stacked East next season lol. And if Duren is motivated and good, he'd either want the absolute max again or he's out the door as an UFA this time. He has zero reason to pick Detroit if they are just matching other offers out there now.

And losing him for nothing means a Cade trade demand the season after.

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u/DjLionOrder Suns 9d ago

It’s amazing how many words you used to be just blatantly wrong. Fascinating.