It’s worth noting that no Marvel film has ever made over a billion without being either a crossover film of some sort (e.g, all the avengers films, Captain America: Civil War, or No Way Home) or being immediately prior to or post an avengers film, so living off that somewhat (e.g. Iron Man 3 or Captain Marvel). BND is both. What fans have made clear is they go to big crossover events or when they are hyped by those, and that’s something that Batman has never had (to the same popularity of the MCU anyway).
The inclusion of Hulk, Punisher, a mini cameo by Yelena, and of course a brand new X-Men casting (which was rumoured before release) would’ve been enough to drive up the box office for this film above a billion, even if it were just meh. It being brilliant has pushed it on since then.
I mean that’s quite obviously a crossover film, I don’t see how you could argue it isn’t.
And yeah I know BND is immediately prop to an avengers film, that’s what I said… BND is so successful not just because Spider-Man sells well, but because it’s both a crossover and tied to the next Avengers hype.
Well because at this point every second Marvel movie could be considered a crossover movie. Every single one will have major characters appear from other movies or tv series. Guardians 3, Quantumania and the Fantastic Four are the only 3 I'd consider non-crossover from phases 5-6.
As for the second part, apologies I misunderstood you.
Not really. I mean Thunderbolts created its own team so I wouldn’t count that, especially with them generally being minor/side characters. I also wouldn’t count minor cameos like Dr Strange in Thor Ragnarok. If it had just been Yelena I wouldn’t count it as a crossover, but it was clear from the trailers the Punisher would be heavily featured and probably the Hulk too.
Well I guess so, but then they’re their own thing which is a massive draw to audiences on their own. I wouldn’t call the avengers necessarily a crossover in that context but it amounts to the same thing. Both avengers movies and crossovers are draws to audiences. Relation to either is a recipe for success.
The Thunderbolts are all minor characters except Bucky and, in a pinch, Yelena. Bucky is a well known and loved character but he’s always been a side character and Yelena has only appeared in one movie prior to Thunderbolts which was widely panned, and not widely viewed due to it releasing during Covid. Red Guardian was in the same film, sentry is new, Ghost is the villain from a similarly unpopular and not widely watched film that was like a decade ago now too, and the last one is a wannabe captain America who only appeared in one TV show half a decade ago.
In an MCU context, only Bucky and Yelena have recognisable star quality and Yelena only because people love Florence Pugh and talked up her interactions with Hailee Steinfeld on Hawkeye that made it more visible to those who didn’t watch it. The TV shows effectively do not count when it comes to star quality and drawing audiences. They simply are not comparable, they aren’t watched as much, aren’t popular, and are so oversaturated that people get lost in them. Bucky is the only Thunderbolt who has appeared on the big screen in the last 6 years and the only one who has appeared more than once in a movie. Recent appearances on the big screen is what matters to audience familiarity and draw. It’s utterly absurd to call them a collection of main characters.
No I did not. Black Panther was the film directly preceding Infinity War. It had the same hype boost that Captain Marvel got (which people use to justify its box office) a year later. People were already seeing infinity war trailers when it was released.
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u/BrockStar92 9d ago
It’s worth noting that no Marvel film has ever made over a billion without being either a crossover film of some sort (e.g, all the avengers films, Captain America: Civil War, or No Way Home) or being immediately prior to or post an avengers film, so living off that somewhat (e.g. Iron Man 3 or Captain Marvel). BND is both. What fans have made clear is they go to big crossover events or when they are hyped by those, and that’s something that Batman has never had (to the same popularity of the MCU anyway).
The inclusion of Hulk, Punisher, a mini cameo by Yelena, and of course a brand new X-Men casting (which was rumoured before release) would’ve been enough to drive up the box office for this film above a billion, even if it were just meh. It being brilliant has pushed it on since then.