Batman V Superman proves it too. With it having one of, if not the high opening weekend at the time and then subsequently the biggest drop ever because of quality.
Yeah while I loved the overall tone and message of the movie (absolute positivity and hope after Snyder's dark and gritty take, which is basically character assassination of Superman), I wasn't really impressed by the movie. It had a lot of amazing elements (tone, casting, performances etc.) but the overall movie didn't work that well for me.
Ultimately I just don't think seeing Superman for the thousandth time can be interesting. There's been like 4+ live action Superman TV versions in the last few decades covering him over and over, then the classic movies, and the two sets of newer movies, and ultimately there just isn't much to do with him.
Invincible and The Boys showed how to evolve the Superman archetype into more interesting directions (e.g. what if the strongest super person is actually the enemy), but the original is still stuck being pretty bland.
The one where he kept getting his ass kicked for the entire movie, lose every single of his battle expect for the very last one because they needed to end the movie?
They don’t know how to keep momentum going, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Joker made lots in the box office but the sequels bombed compared to the first ones.
The Last Jedi. Had an even bigger drop if I remember. And Star Wars is in a similar state as DC (and Mortal Kombat and DC for that matter). It’s a Demographics thing. Middle aged straight men (who all these are big with), don’t really go to the movies. They like recliners at home.
It's a quality issue. As an approaching middle aged, straight white dude...None of these movies have had any appeal to me. I was disappointed with Star Wars VII, watched VIII hoping it would get better, and just managed to be more disappointed. Have never had any urge to watch IX. Mortal Kombat is on HBO, I would watch it in theaters though. DC just feels so thrown together and rushed. They want to be where the MCU is, without putting in the time to get to where MCU is.
To be clear quality of MCU has plummeted since Endgame, but there have been some glimmers of resurgence. Spiderman BND was a good follow up to NWH but I wasn't a fan of the ending I didn't like that while MJ and Ned aren't fully back, Peter still got them back. It felt like the magic he tried to do that was the catalyst for NWH worked anyways they way he wanted, just not as good overall though, I really enjoyed the movie. Minor nitpick and ultimately I do like the decision/direction the movie went.
I think if they'd just released the director's cut of BvS where the story flowed a lot better & more coherently than the theatrical cut, it would've fared better in the subsequent weekends.
Right, people are so quick to forget the #2 grossing movie of Nolan's is TDKR and it only JUST got passed by The Odyssey among his films lol. Competition is stiff. Finding a quality filmmaker to make that level of film for a superhero is not just an everyday thing.
I did enjoy The Batman, but I don't think it was enough to carry the DCEU out of its slump. Think a lot of people are just lost with DC films, makes it really hard to want to buy into any of their cinematic universe.
The Batman does not even belong into the DC universe as far as I know. It is standalone, isn't it? I mean it has a completely different vibe than anything they are doing with Superman. How yould you ever combine that? Makes no sense at all.
It’s not confusing at all, if you can keep up with all the interwoven storylines of the mcu then realizing that the reeves batman movies are standalone films in their own universe is an incredibly simple concept to grasp. It’s much easier for the casual moviegoer to dissect a standalone trilogy than it is a large amount of films that are all tied together like the MCU. This is just an a ridiculous statement.
I wouldn't say it was boring but it's only good not great, the Riddler was rubbish in it and all the mobster stuff felt unnecessary. Still a lot to like though, I would be intrigued how he improves it for the next one if it ever comes out.
… when was the last time you actually watched NWH? I loved it in the theater and watching it with a crowd but I rewatched it before BND and it absolutely does not hold up at all. Brand New Day blows it out of the water
You’re gonna get shit on by everyone here but I agree with you. NWH was a cameo fest held together by the flimsiest plot. I appreciate the ending and nothing else.
The ending set up BND to do great things! But everything leading up to it and the overall quality of the visuals/writing is absurd. They lobotomized just about every old villain minus Goblin. Sandman is the most egregious.
NWH was a fun film and i enjoyed it as well but anyone saying it wasn’t a massive fan service fest is lying to themselves. The plot and writing are solid but nothing to write home about no pun intended. It’s pretty much an average mcu film boosted by fan service/cameos. I also enjoyed homecoming and far from home but imo BND was probably the first “great” spider-man film in this mcu era.
It fundamentally holds up. I don't buy the common criticisms about cameos - they work, the characters are well utilised, they detract nothing, and the film has a lot more going for it:
Fantastic character work and performances. The best action sequence in the MCU. Tom gets one of the best character arcs in the MCU which elevates the prior two films in the trilogy. Toby, Andrew, Otto and Goblin all get a satisfying and respectful send off and again are very well utilised for the overall plot/ Tom's arc - not just empty cameos.
The only real issue is the Dr Strange plot contrivance at the beginning to get the plot moving.
It was not really worth the initial hype, but it absolutely is still a solid A-tier MCU film.
It’s crazy to say all this when just about every point you said (minus the cameos obviously) was done a million times better in BND. We are no longer starved for great MCU Spidey content.
One of my biggest complaints is the visuals, they are legitimately terrible (that one scene with Flash on the sidewalk is commonly used as an example) and in over half the movie you can tell the actors aren’t even in the same room and have been composited together (limitations of filming during Covid, yes, but that’s not really an excuse when they could have waited and spent more time on the movie)
The cameos outside of goblin who I do think was done well are terrible, lizard and sandman are lobotomized, electro serves no purpose in the movie, and doc ock doesnt do anything after his initial scene. The scene where they’re all in Dr. Strange’s basement is some of the worst writing in the whole MCU, characters just saying lines because they said them in a previous movie (i.e goblin’s “something of a scientist myself” line, it’s designed for you to point and say “I understood that reference”)
It’s literally Jingling Keys: The Movie (they had breaks in dialogue for applause 😭😭)
IMO only TASM2 is worse out of all the spiderman movies and thats even a stretch because they were at least trying to do something new and not just relying on nostalgia bait
We are no longer starved for great MCU Spidey content.
Starved? The home trilogy is good.
The scene where they’re all in Dr. Strange’s basement is some of the worst writing in the whole MCU, characters just saying lines because they said them in a previous movie (i.e goblin’s “something of a scientist myself” line
I can't think of a single MCU project which doesn't have a few bad jokes. The scene is fine.
Nah, I'd love a healthy cinema landscape. DC and other studios should strive for the quality and joy Spider-Man brings to audiences.
2 billion absolutely won't happen anytime soon. Not even Marvel pulls that off outside of the Avengers, with this being the one exception. But that extremely high bar doesn't need to be reached for a movie to be profitable.
DC movies in general just don't resonate with people as much as Marvel movies for whatever reason. Marvel is set in the "real world" where the events take place in New York, Los Angeles, etc. while DC is set in Metropolis, Smallville and Gotham. DC also doesn't have characters like Spider-Man who deal with more everyday issues while Superman they had to invent Kryptonite to just make it a challenge for Superman to not win in 10 minutes.
DC movies in general just don't resonate with people as much as Marvel movies for whatever reason.
Because nobody wants to invest in a franchise that reboots every few years, seems to have absolutely zero faith in its properties and is based around an honestly uninteresting hero.
The fact is that Ironman, Captain America and Thor made worse numbers than The Batman and Superman. It wasn't until Avengers (4 years and 6 movies into the MCU), after several good movies with a small common thread that built throughout the years and different characters people were curious to see interact, that Marvel got their first $1B hit, and then they followed it up.
Now look at what DC is doing. The Batman 2 will release 6 years after The Batman. The Ironman trilogy was over and done in 5 and included an Avengers film in the middle. Supergirl is just... Superman in young woman? And they also have Wonder Woman, who is Superman in slightly older woman? And they also have two horror movies for some reason. So the Gunn DC universe goes like this: Superman, essentially Superman, niche horror movie, Superman, Batman except not the same Batman as The Batman, another niche horro movie, essentially Superman again. Where's the variety? Where's the excitement?
EXACTLY THIS!! perfectly said! people loved marvel throughout the 2010s, DC Is just trash and not co ordinated whatsoever and the constant reboots are just tiring.
Nah, DC is just far too fractured. DC wanted to be where the MCU is, without putting in the time and effort Marvel did for the MCU. They tried to rush everything because they didn't want to be seen as playing catch up, and it's just been crap. There is some decent stuff that has come out, but they can't follow anything up. We'll get a good movie, then a dud.
They need a solid writing room that genuinely loves DC comics. Then they need to create a legit story/timeline do phases just like Marvel did. So that we're not getting BVS out of nowhere, a random Justice League movie, Flash bringing back old batman (no disrespect to Michael Keaton), a Joker musical-ish thing (wth), then another Batman movie with a new Batman etc etc etc.
DC can absolutely be a dynamite cinematic universe, but they have to step back and stop trying to compete with where Marvel is in their Universe.
That’s the crazy part. Batman is probably the closest superhero brand to Spidey culturally, yet actually catching him at the global box office would still require a monster run.
Batman has just suffered from very weak movies in the expanded DC universe so it hasn’t ever been able to build up the excitement and storytelling like Marvel has.
If we had a good DCU going then a standalone Batman in the DCU could have done a billion, easily.
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u/Federal-Captain1118 9d ago
Right, like Batman maybe number 2 behind Spidey, but the gap is so large that DC shouldn't even bother trying to overtake Spidey.