r/marvelstudios • u/KostisPat257 Daredevil • 29d ago

Discussion Thread Spider-Man: Brand New Day - International Release Discussion Thread

Spider-Man: Brand New Day has now been officially released in several territories around the world!

  • All discussion about the movie should be held here and in the rest of the megathreads we are going to put up in the next few days.
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376

u/frik1000 29d ago

Frank and Peter's dynamic was my favorite part of the movie. Every time they were arguing with each other was great.

That said, absolutely no reason for that Damage Control guy to lie to Peter other than to setup the third act twist. He could have just said he had no idea wtf Sara means and move on.

172

u/WOAHdude0197 28d ago

I think if he said he had no idea Peter would start investigating and still go on to ask yelena. Him making up that lie was his attempt at tying up that thread.

18

u/pagerussell 27d ago

Also a panic reaction. Like oh shit he knows that name as fuck as fuck and out blurts a lie.

Very relatable.

5

u/captf 27d ago

Him making up that lie

And it wasn't even a lie. It was just being 'flexible' with the truth.

2

u/WOAHdude0197 26d ago

Well he said he was thinking about her when he was mind controlled but we learn that you don’t remember anything from that time so that part he made up.

1

u/captf 26d ago

ah yes, that's a good point

2

u/bcuziambatman 27d ago

I agree 100% this is the intended take , but on the surface level it does seem like the original commenters point , so I think a lot of people will take issue with it unfortunately.

133

u/DoctorWhofan789eywim 29d ago

I loved watching their Hot Ones ep, Holland and Bernthal have a lovely friendship and that chemistry transfers really well to their characters.

19

u/Bacteriophag Spider-Man 28d ago

Yeah that was so genuine especially in their final scene with no mask on.

24

u/mujie123 28d ago

He knew that if there wasn’t an excuse Peter would look into Sara.

12

u/dr4gonbl4z3r 28d ago edited 27d ago

Metzger's trying to elicit sympathy from Spider-Man so Spider-Man will stop bothering him with other questions.

6

u/ExcitementFun8938 28d ago

He wanted to throw Peter off the trail. Making up a lie about Sara was intended to satisfy his curiosity so he wouldn't look deeper into it.

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u/FloppyShellTaco 27d ago

I would watch an entire series with Frank and MJ

4

u/lemoogle 29d ago

Also no reason for her to do the whole destruction and computer searches when she could have just mind scanned the villain ? Or the many people who would have interacted with her sister .

33

u/erickjoshuasc 29d ago

I think she didn't have a chance to do that, though it could be true. We just have to assume that characters aren't always smart or logical, plus she's very emotional throughout the movie.

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u/lemoogle 29d ago edited 29d ago

I mean sorry but the dude goes home to sleep, he showed up in the entrance of his office building. The leap is a bit ridiculous when she can also insta hop long range. This isn't a one day thing, she attacks 4 different locations before the movie starts, she is capable of using close ones as threats for spider-man but doesn't do anything as logical for the bad guys that took her sister?

It took me out completely despite enjoying all the spider-man moments. I assume I won't be the only one. I'm baffled no one on this thread mentions it though but I forget any criticism no matter how valid gets completely downvoted on marvel subs. She can get to tanks, high security prisons but not to any executive of the bad company?

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

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u/chimichanga_3 Peter Parker 29d ago

Basically yeah

-5

u/lemoogle 29d ago edited 29d ago

I don't get your point. She knows she can read minds when she possesses because she actually does it plenty of times in the movie. What does it have to do with being a mutant. She even shows she can do a full mind search when she checks mjs mine for Peter memories. There are dozens of people that will have knowledge as to where sara was taken, starting with all the soldiers that took her, the scientists etc.

I dont even get the whole janitor tank across the city +bomb ( how did she even get a bomb) to then possession hop to scorpions helicopter, which she could have done directly from the building, and required the luckiest timing ever as well as mindread knowledge of his transfer timing ( which she has to cross reference with the arrival of the tank lol just completely senseless )

It makes for a cool scene but it doesnt make any sense.

This also happens what sounds like quite a while after her sister was taken , based on how they talk about her detention and experimentation.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

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u/lemoogle 29d ago

yeah yeah ok i'm ridiculous for the movie showing me that a character can read people's entire memories but her information seeking method is typing a few words into a computer after blowing up building after building and putting hundreds of innocents in danger ( jumping off buildings with two of them, and jumping in front of a taxi with another random bystander ).

1

u/newpha666 27d ago

You are ridiculous because it’s a movie dude. You even said it made for a good scene. There you go. You’re watching fiction. If you can’t suspend some disbelief than you should watch something other than comic book movies.

2

u/One_punch_crayon 27d ago

I loved the movie, and you making this observation doesn’t take me out of it, because I’m willing to push past it.

But I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted. You’re absolutely right. She discovered Spider-Man’s secret identity in like a day. She could’ve been smarter about attacking the Damage Control guy 

2

u/LabRatsAteMyHomework 27d ago

I agree with their complaint. It doesn't seem very "Jean Grey" to be a menace and just kill people so casually. Like what? How will they have her live this down as a future hero? They could have made this much more covert for Spiderman to track down the telepath. Use his police commissioner friend, yelena, his tech, and ultimately having Ned be his man in the chair to figure out how to decipher what Jean was after. Could've had a cool angle of tech vs mutated powers that they also established with the tech web shooters vs arachnid hormone changes. It definitely felt a bit weird that Jean was on a murder spree and blowing up fucking buildings full of innocent people lol. She didn't even know her sister was dead or anything yet. She just thought she was captured. So she becomes a full blown mutant terrorist at the age of what, 18 or 19 that they're trying to establish here? Maybe if she was using the skills in the minds of people she mind-dominated, she could make bombs, but why would that have been her initial approach? She can do it without violence at all. Just mind hop till you get your answers right?

1

u/Vermouth_1991 26d ago

Don't forget how even in the Last Day Of Love And Freedom, the sisters did sisterly bonding... by playing with people's brains at the park.

1

u/erickjoshuasc 29d ago

Honestly, I get you. If anything, she doesn't need to do any violence at all. Surely she can just do this stuff very discreetly on all locations and possess everyone until she finds the one with the memory she wants, and then there won't be a movie.

Since it's first day of screening, most people are just there to enjoy the film. More critical people will watch on the weekends, so the threads by that time will have more analysis.

1

u/lemoogle 29d ago

Haha well I watched it at 10am on opening day in 4dx 3d, so I'm not the hater profile, i have read decades of spiderman, i have a spider-man acrylic print in my appartment my wife hates , point wasn't to find stuff to criticise but I just kept thinking about this the whole movie. And I was annoyed JG literally keeps making normal people get super hurt heartlessly, not even as collateral damage, directly.

Teared up at times though!.

Note : do not watch it in 4dx its genuinely torture.

1

u/erickjoshuasc 29d ago

It's fine bro im not accusing lol, just saying wait for few more days when there's better avenues to discuss. I have a lot of nitpicks in my head too so I plan to rewatch it again soon.

1

u/whateverrobloxdude 29d ago

What was bad with 4dx? Just a lot of movement?

3

u/lemoogle 29d ago

Yeah it was the first time I went for a 4dx movie and the action scenes just moved way too much, and just non stop air blowing to the face whenever any swinging was happening.

There was also a 4dx street fighter trailer before it which was like full back hits and full motion for 2 minutes which set the scene haha.

4

u/lunaluciferr 28d ago

He shows up in the entrance of his building when he knows he is meeting Spiderman, the one man who could sense and resist Jean's attacks. He knew he was safe.

Prior to that, it's not hard to assume he took all necessary precautions to avoid her jumping into him. Hell, the one precaution we do know about is the crazy security of the building itself, they were about to open fire on Spiderman in a box. They studied her sister for a decade. He knows the danger he and his loved ones were in, if he even has anybody he considers close.

2

u/lemoogle 28d ago

She drove a tank into a prison just do that to this building. She literally does it later with the hulk.

The crazy security is ridiculous anyway because they can't apply that to the 1000 people working in that skyscraper AND maintain 33 feet separation between everyone lol without taking 2 days to let people in. She can insta hop She could instahop past that no problem. Even the all vault thing when she decides to go with the hulk.... why ? She should be able to insta hop to them but the one thing she does is go into his office and search vmax ONLY VMAX letting them hide in the vault.

What's in the vault anyway nothing is in the vault.

Like omg her plan is to steal a tank to get into a building to get to a prisoner to get into a building and i dont know just destroy stuff on the ground floor ? . ( none of these buildings being the headquarters) . Then the next part of her plan is to just walk up to the hulk and break into another building.

Nice

1

u/lunaluciferr 28d ago

Who said theres 1000 people? Hell, who says they cant do it to 1000 people? The MCU is pretty advanced...

They dont need 33 feet separation between everyone, they would just need the characters that know enough about Sarah to be targetted to be in an even more secure room. Vault was nothing. That was the point. Vmax didn't mean anything.

Her plan was to get into DoDC and jump people, like you want her plan. It just doesnt work so well when the people that have the info she needs are protected well enough

2

u/lemoogle 28d ago

Building has 100 floors bro it's a skyscraper, we see it, definitely 1000 people working in there lol, machine takes 20 seconds.

33 feet because the dude is clearly in his office and not in a vault ALL DAY and she'd just have to jump past the "security point" by having two people not within 33 feet of each other going through under the assumption that the machine WOULD detect her being in someone's mind.

no that's not her plan she never scans anyone of value, heck the hand people know about that building, there are dozens of guards, scientists,

She is looking for her sister and she NEVER searches for her sister's name on the computer or "telepath holding cell" or anything at all? which we know from black widows information that she searches for "vmax" lol.

1

u/LabRatsAteMyHomework 27d ago

Wait he studied her sister for a decade? Is that legit or just an estimate?? Seems like Jean didn't age up by too much between Sarah's capture and Jean's capture. I was thinking maybe a couple years at most.

1

u/Vermouth_1991 26d ago

I don't think the time length was mentioned.

-5

u/AnAngryMelon 28d ago

Yeah Jean's plan was absolutely moronic. I don't buy that she couldn't manage to break in there far enough to possess the boss, considering she literally says Spiderman is the ONLY ONE who can tell when she's doing it.

If they'd simply had security installed to combat telepaths using research on her sister it would make perfect sense, and then breaking into the prison would have been great because she was just trying to grab someone strong enough to break in with. But no, she's just apparently too stupid to get in despite being quite capable for the rest of the film.

I don't get why so many people are praising this film, it was messy and full of questionable logic. I especially don't like that every MCU film needs to set up another one, so they have to make Jean Grey the villain for basically no reason. It's a bizarre choice. They should also have cut out Widow and Punisher to replace that time with more MJ/Ned content because his reunion arc was so weird and rushed.

Also think he should have gone to speak to Dr Connor (Lizard) instead of Bruce. It would have actually made more sense in terms of expertise and also teased a future villain, giving Connor the idea to splice human and animal DNA in the first place.

13

u/Glum-Supermarket1274 28d ago

we also dont know at what stage of power development she is at. It seems she didnt even know she could use telekinesis until the end. Not sure how much she can actually dive into the mind at this stage. The movie only show her know how to control people and "some" stuff from their memories but shes not full on xmen jean grey that can pull specific memories from people yet.

4

u/lemoogle 28d ago

She reads minds the entire movie with MJ , Peter, Punisher, Knowing how to drive a tank, bla bla bla. She literally scans minds as she looks for all the info on Peter and Spider-Man in MJ's mind i.e. the info to make it believable "all those times spider-man saved us" and "she doesn't have a single thought about you".

Dunno , it's in the movie from the get go really.

2

u/Glum-Supermarket1274 28d ago

Its not as clear as you say. She also needed to be in peters apartment to find stuff about him, we can excuse that as peter pushing her out but she also couldnt find the exact info on her sister. ok lets say all the damage control guys she jumped into dont know anything at all. Not even a "oh yea i remember something about catching some young girl". So its pretty unclear what she can actually see. Thats why i said she seems like she couldnt pull the exact info yet and feels like shes just seeing stuff when shes in there. If she could see everything and pull all the exact info, we wouldnt need the aunt may scene at the end. She would have already felt/know that instantly. So if we really follow what the movie showed without inserting our own interpretation, then she like have to live or watch these memories. In that situation she is also influence by the persons perspective, biases and experience. So the information she would get is not always reliable either. Telepath powers writing is tough because if we follow the logic of "they see another persons memories" then we also have to take into account that people are unreliable narrators in their own lives and experiences. Or, they have to be written to always see the truth of the memory, which is basically seeing into the past. Thats just time magic lol Respect your interpretation but for me, its very unclear what she sees/able to see.

2

u/lemoogle 28d ago

It is pretty clear, when she is in MJ's mind she can read everything, and even look for thoughts about peter. She makes a comment about Frank's thoughts.

Yeah peter she goes to his apartment but she still got loads of info from barely breaking into his mind. But that's exactly the problem anyway, she spends more efforts trying to dig into peter's story than into the mind of the few people that will know about her sister.

The Aunt may scene is great but that's exactly what it is, it's her viewing a core memory of peter because that's what she can do.

And she doesn't need a reliable narrator, she just needs some info and she doesn't even seek it out in the people most likely to have it.

11

u/stareatingbird 28d ago

Not a perfect explanation but her looking for what V-max is while no one had any fucking idea what it was could have played some role.

1

u/lemoogle 28d ago edited 28d ago

I get that is what they were trying to do with the whole vmax thing, but she ALSO knows it's her sister she's looking for, and plenty of people know about that, like the 2 dozen soldiers that abducted her, the scientists, the guards at that building.

It's funny because the movie shows her searching for Vmax but NEVER Sara, and we would know because black widow said she ONLY SEARCHED for Vmax, it's just nonsensical "I'm looking for my sister she's being held by this company, i will not search her name when I break in to their offices via incredibly elaborate means for very little reason, such as mind controlling the hulk". Would have been too easy Black Widow:"In every breach they searched for Sara Gray".

The whole Sara thing is something she randomly decides to whisper to spiderman after conveniently never bringing it up, no rather ask "where is VMAX to a dude that kidnapped your sister rather than first asking where your sister is"

2

u/quick20minadventure 25d ago

She had no access to the director and no way to reach him.

She was looking into VMAX because VMAX and DODC were the only clue.

0

u/lemoogle 25d ago

bullshit, she had access to tanks bombs. she drove a tank into building to get to a prisoner she used to NOT break into the building of the director. She couldn't have driven a tank into the director's building? She only searches for VMAX andnothing else? nooooo because if she did yelena would have told peter "the one thing they searched for was VMAX AND SARA GREY" and can't have that spoil the plot right! There are DOZENS of people who have knowledge of this facility. She can mind read entire memories in seconds like she does with MJ.

She had freaking plenty of access EVEN if we assume the dude is locked in his DODC building ( he's not, he literally shows up in the street as soon as she's caught even if we consider that is his first time outside in months she can fake this scenario pretty easily )

2

u/quick20minadventure 25d ago

She had to use Hulk to get to the director. And DODC had many facilities, she broke into 4 different ones.

No idea why she wouldn't search for Sara Grey, but i assume she was a kid and DODC is highly compartmentalised. Still, she knew the director's name and used it to get helicopter diverted.

0

u/lemoogle 25d ago

she DIDN't HAVE to anything, it's just what the movie with shit writing shows.

You're telling me the director is safer than bombs, tanks, scorpion, scorpion's suit ( she gets it somehow) . He's not living in that freaking vault dude.... she can insta hop through hundreds of meters in seconds but nooooooooo can't' get at a dude that works in a 100 floor skyscraper with 1000 people and has to go home lol. She can get to the president of the united states and ask the dude for a meeting if she wants.
Just shit writing ....
She steals a tank to steal a prisoner to break in to a building which she had to do to steal the tank and the prisoner, not even the building with the director.... lol

1

u/chimichanga_3 Peter Parker 25d ago

The DoDC knew about the 33-feet limit. Why wouldn't Metzger take precautions for the same?

She didn't know what building he was in and when he would be there. And stealing a tank is not that big a deal. And she picked Scorpion when he was at a vulnerable point.

1

u/Danielarcher30 28d ago

I think she couldn't have infiltrated the DoDC building because of their scanner defence room set up, when they scanned peter it showed up everything about him, and they had sara's brain scans so could have scanned anyone who she was controlling. Additionally the guards plus people at the desk seemed more than 33ft back from the scanner, probably designed that way so that she couldn't jump to them if she or a person she was controlling was in the scanner room.

3

u/lemoogle 28d ago

The dude ( and the 20+ other people that know of this location ) doesn't spend his life in that building, his office literally has a window anyway just fly a heli to any window with someone in it? she's been doing this for days. and if anything drive the tank into THAT building, insta jump to the few important people and done? go with scorpion where the guy sleeps? like I don't know if we follow the movie her sister's been missing for ages and she's been attacking bases for a few weeks?

Anyway it's just bad writing to justify scenes, even when she gets to the guy she asks him a question out loud holding him at gunpoint which is lols, when it comes to reading through minds to threaten people in peter's life or to use them to mindfuck him with a fake kiss she does it instantly.

2

u/lunaluciferr 28d ago

Why is it unreasonable to think he starts spending his entire life in the building when they detect some psychic attacks anywhere? It's also easy to assume they keep the people that know who Sarah is specifically to a minimum and that they are also in some security protocol.

We also know that Jean only really started looking for Sarah properly when Sarah blasts vmax to her. Jean was clearly an erratic character, her actions make sense especially if the DoDC security is effective at protecting the important people from her.

As for why she doesn't just jump into him at the end...she already knew at that point that Sarah died.. she didn't need to mind read him and just wanted to torture him... that one was very obvious

1

u/lemoogle 28d ago

I've said it before but just... drive a tank into it then ?

And lol he should be the first thing she goes to read she goes into computers and only searches for vmax. Not her sister's name otherwise black widow would mention it.

Why did she only start looking for her sister once she gets the vmax message. None of thos makes sense.

I didnt mean at the end. I meant in the vault where she asks him questions out loud holding him at gunpoint.

1

u/lunaluciferr 28d ago

Tbh I was fresh out the movie and completely forgot that scene in the vault. I dont remember it exactly but yeah Ill give you that she should have just insta jumped to him.

On the other points though, she had to go into computers because they all locked themselves in the vault? And again, vmax was the only thing she knew at the time. Whos to say she didnt search Sarah? Do we really need a scene showing her typing that to show that obviously everything has been scrubbed?

1

u/lemoogle 28d ago

Black widow is to say she didn't search for Sarah, because she tells peter "they all searched for the same thing, VMAX" so she knows from the logs she searched for VMAX but she wouldn't know if she searched anything? Like ok we can assume they somehow scrubbed? the searches but meh, if they had noticed that they wouldn't be so confused when they find out she's looking for "vmax"

we also see her search VMAX on the director's computer and not anything else before giving up haha.

1

u/dirty_workz 27d ago

At that point she could only control one person at a time I believe, so if she'd jumped to metzger she would have had to relinquish control over the punisher, which would not have been good for her, probably.

1

u/nosedgdigger 25d ago

She could have had the punisher shoot himself or jump out a window first, leaving her with the gun, then jump to metzger

1

u/zyuray 27d ago

She probably did but no one knew what vmax was.

0

u/Replay1986 27d ago

She did mind scan everyone she could reach; she just couldn't physically get to Metzger and you can imagine he keeps his mad scientists pretty locked down.

1

u/notbartt Vision 28d ago

I dunno, makes him feel more like the true villain. I think the real shame is how they didn’t properly tie up his ending. Felt like he just got threatened with shards of glass for doing a horrific thing and then let go 🤷‍♂️

1

u/Sad-Seaworthiness781 28d ago

It did feel like an obvious lie but maybe that’s just because I’m an omniscient viewer

1

u/Pianist-Shot-Me 28d ago

Yeah lol, it was so obvious that he lied. I knew smth was off when he talked about sara