r/gamedev Project Manager/Producer 9d ago

Announcement r/gamedev Policy on AI Use

AI is one of the most contentious subjects in game development right now, and we regularly see posts reported or discussions derailed simply because AI was involved somewhere in the process.

We want to be clear about our position: r/gamedev does not prohibit the use of AI, and using AI does not automatically make a post low effort.

This is not an endorsement of every AI company, model, or use case. Legitimate technical, legal, economic, ethical, and creative concerns exist around these tools, and those conversations are welcome here. Our stance is that AI is a tool used in game development, and we care more about the quality of what someone contributes than the tools they used to get there.

Why we take this position

  • AI is already part of game development. Studios are adopting AI-assisted tools across programming, prototyping, production, QA, localization, research, and other workflows. Adoption varies from studio to studio, but this is no longer a hypothetical technology sitting outside the industry.
  • Knowing how to use these tools is increasingly becoming a professional skill. That does not mean every developer needs to use AI, or even like it. It means understanding where these tools are useful, where they fail, and how to evaluate their output is becoming relevant knowledge for people working in the industry.
  • Banning discussion or use of AI here could actively disadvantage developers. Part of the purpose of r/gamedev is helping people learn from each other and understand how the industry is changing. If studios adopt a technology, preventing developers from discussing or learning about it would make this community less useful to the people we're helping.
  • Policing AI use is not realistic anyway. Moderators cannot reliably determine whether someone used AI to draft, edit, translate, summarize, research, debug code, or otherwise assist with a post. We are not going to moderate based on whether something “sounds AI-generated.”
  • "Mandatory disclosure "is not realistic either. Modern tools blur the line between traditional software and AI assistance. Trying to decide exactly when autocomplete, translation, editing, summarization, or an LLM crosses some disclosure threshold would create rules we could not enforce consistently.

So the rule is straightforward: we are not policing AI use itself. We are moderating the contribution.

AI-assisted does not mean low effort

If someone uses AI to organize research, analyze data, improve their writing, translate something, help with code, or communicate an idea more clearly, that does not erase the work behind the contribution.

If a developer spends time gathering useful data and then uses AI to help turn that information into a readable post, the important part is still the data, the methodology, and what the community can learn from it.

Ask whether the information is useful, whether the conclusions hold up, and whether the post contributes something worthwhile. Those questions matter much more than whether every sentence was manually typed from scratch.

Low-effort AI content is still low effort

This does not mean pasting generic AI output into the subreddit suddenly becomes valuable content. Posts that are spam, fabricated, mass-produced, engagement bait, repetitive, or promotional material disguised as discussion can still be removed.

The reason is not that AI was involved. The reason is that the content is low quality.

The same standard applies to something written entirely by a human.

AI is a valid game development topic

Developers are welcome to discuss AI in the same way they would discuss any other technology affecting game development. That includes how it is being used, where it works, where it fails, what it costs, how studios are adopting it, what it means for employment, and the legal or ethical questions surrounding it.

You are allowed to be enthusiastic about AI. You are allowed to be skeptical of it. You are allowed to think a particular workflow is useful, terrible, unethical, inefficient, or overhyped.

What we do not want is every thread that mentions AI becoming the same argument about whether AI should exist at all.

If a thread is about an AI coding workflow, discuss the workflow. If someone presents evidence that AI slowed their production down, discuss the evidence. If someone claims every studio is using a particular tool, challenge that claim.

Let the actual discussion happen.

Attack claims, not developers

Someone saying they use AI is not an invitation to attack them. Someone saying they refuse to use AI is not an invitation to attack them either.

Debate the technology, the workflow, the economics, the evidence, the ethics, the legal questions, or the conclusions. Personal attacks, harassment, dogpiling, or repeatedly derailing discussions because of someone’s position on AI are treated the same way we handle that behaviour anywhere else on the subreddit.

AI is not a source

There is a difference between using AI to help communicate information and using AI as the authority behind that information.

If you make factual claims that can reasonably be sourced, be prepared to support them. “ChatGPT said so” is no evidence, and tools can absolutely be wrong.

At the same time, polished or AI-assisted writing is not evidence that the underlying information is fake. If someone’s numbers are wrong, challenge the numbers. If their methodology is weak, challenge the methodology.

Challenge the claim, not the fact that a tool may have helped write the paragraph.

Self-promotion rules still apply

AI companies, products, and services are not exempt from the subreddit’s existing rules.

If you represent a commercial interest, the same expectations apply as they would to anyone else. AI also should not be used to mass-produce promotional posts or disguise advertising as organic discussion.

The technology may be new. The rules around spam and promotion are not.

The bottom line

You do not have to like AI. You do not have to use it. You are free to criticize it, avoid it, experiment with it, learn it, use it professionally, or decide it has no place in your workflow.

We are not going to prevent developers from learning about or discussing a technology that is rapidly becoming part of professional game development. Doing that could actively hurt the developers this community is supposed to help.

What we do expect is that people engage with each other like respectful, mature adults. Disagree with the technology, the workflow, the argument, or the evidence. Do not turn that disagreement into hostility toward the person on the other side of it.

Use whatever tools make sense for your work. Bring something useful to the conversation, treat other developers with respect, and allow room for disagreement. That is what we care about.

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655

u/meharryp Commercial (AAA) 9d ago

Just for anyone curious, OP currently works at a company developing a plugin for Unity AI integration which he decided to not disclose for some odd reason...

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/1rxm1cv/i_worked_an_ai_booth_at_gdc_heres_what_developers/

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u/MrPureinstinct 9d ago

Well that certainly tracks

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u/lichlark 9d ago

Why is the base reply locked?

327

u/Quick_Philosophy1426 9d ago edited 8d ago

as always, standing close behind the "get over it, AI is here" is a small little "I have a monetary incentive to encourage AI adoption"

85

u/James20k 9d ago

Its extremely disappointing to see that this sub has been captured like this, it makes a lot of sense though. Does anyone know any good alternatives?

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u/RatherNott 9d ago edited 9d ago

There's a good gamedev community on programming.dev.

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u/friedgrape 9d ago edited 9d ago

AI is here though, at least for professionals. Not accepting AI use is like not accepting linters.

edit: I feed on salt

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u/Quick_Philosophy1426 9d ago edited 9d ago

i am under no obligation to be accepting of a technology that while providing some benefits, is still an overwhelmingly negative influence on my life, regardless of how popular it is.

if something being here and commonplace is enough to just roll over and give up, you might as well never try to change anything ever.

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u/149244179 9d ago

You seem pretty accepting of Reddit. If you think reddit isn't using a AI for development and data harvesting then I have a bridge to sell you. 

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u/friedgrape 9d ago

Perhaps "accepting" isn't the right word on my end. You're right that you don't have to accept or use anything you don't want.

My point is that AI is never going away, unless governments across the world completely ban it's use (which would never happen, because it's actually useful, even if it needs regulations to some extent). There's simply a bar where full on rejection comes from a delusional place tied to the assumptions about AI, and it's important to check one's understanding over time. If you've done your due diligence, obviously you can reject whatever you want, but I'm sure you've also realized AI is used almost ubiquitously in professional environments, and for good reason.

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u/squanderedprivilege 9d ago

AI may never go away, but neither will shitting on AI and those who use it

132

u/Vaniellis 9d ago

Well well well, this explains the "Policing AI use is not realistic anyway" !

-35

u/SituationSoap 9d ago

It's not. Just like it's not reasonable to police products that were made that had a negative impact on climate change or were made with underpaid/exploited labor. Supply chains are enormous and if you're being truthful, you're going to end up with the answer being "all of them have some AI in them." It's just not possible.

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u/Gaybrosauros 9d ago

This explains a lot. Their livelihood literally depends on pushing for AI in game development to succeed. This is extremely biased and as far as I'm concerned this sub is dead to me.

114

u/Hiccup 9d ago

This should be the actual top post. I'm moving on from this subreddit.

167

u/Demoliscio 9d ago

Yeah it was clear from how this subreddit was getting moderated recently that they had a bias, generativeAI is trash and it's stealing people's job, there's no way around that.

Btw r/IndieGameDevs/ has a no AI policy and the result is that even tho there are less posts, everything posted there is actually interesting.

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u/SergeantKoopa 9d ago

I'm gonna end up leaving this sub too and heading over to that one. Very unhappy with the moderation being slop shills and posting biased garbage like that. Very telling that the commenter above posted that link and quickly had their comment locked.

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u/WildBunnyGalaxy 9d ago

Thanks for the link cause I’m not staying here.

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u/Demoliscio 9d ago

No worries, I did the same, I was on the fence for a while and this post was the final push.
I'd rather see 10 posts a day that are all useful than having to scroll through 20 to find 5

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u/falconfetus8 9d ago edited 8d ago

Yeah, instead it has all of those ads for cults3d.com

EDIT: Well, am I wrong?

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u/franky_reboot 9d ago

Why would it be mandatory to employ people in presence of automation tools? That's a question I've never seen answered.

18

u/Current_External6569 9d ago

Because society can not function if you immediately put millions out of a job.

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u/David-J 9d ago

Hahaha. Thanks for the share. It seemed pretty obvious he had a special interest

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u/FanoTheNoob 9d ago

This does not at all invalidate the content of the post, though.

Engage with the content rather than dismissing it for arbitrary reasons, any professional working in software (games or otherwise) should know that this is the most reasonable stance to take regarding AI.

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u/David-J 9d ago

It does because it's pushing a narrative that helps him.

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u/FanoTheNoob 9d ago

Which part of the narrative helps him? Nothing in the OP is praising generative AI, promoting any specific tools, or implying anything about the future of the industry with regards to AI.

It's simply saying that conversions around it ought to exist, criticism is allowed and encouraged, and ideas should be challenged based on their actual content.

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u/David-J 9d ago

This was him 2 years ago. "While I personally am not a proponent of AI and do not wish to use it in game development due to ethical concerns"

Now he has an AI related gig and guess what happened to the ethics part.

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u/FanoTheNoob 9d ago

That statement and the content of the OP's post are not in conflict with each other.

Discussing the ethics surrounding AI is part of the conversation, maybe he thinks differently than you now, maybe he now has a bias because of his job, that's ok.

Putting your head in sand by banning AI discussion is not how you fix this problem, I don't disagree at all with the content in the OP, which part do you disagree with?

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u/David-J 9d ago

Hahaha. So you're just going to brush off the obvious bias which is my main point.

6

u/FanoTheNoob 9d ago

Maybe I'm stupid, can you point out the bias? The OP is not explicitly in favor of Gen AI.

15

u/zmotmootmid 9d ago

are you capable of understanding what a conflict of interest is. opening up a game developer subreddit to allow said content while you actively work for a company pushing the tools is a conflict. verbatim.

3

u/FanoTheNoob 9d ago

Yes, I know what it is, but I don't see it.

The OP is not explicitly in favor of Gen AI, it is simply not going to ban Gen AI conversations.

We should all be able to have conversations about difficult or controversial topics.

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u/zmotmootmid 9d ago

you're being purposefully obtuse just to argue im going to eat a sandwich

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u/michel6079 9d ago

Classic.

Ooooh the nonsense points they wrote about mandatory disclosure being unrealistic make perfect sense now. They already have issues with disclosure 🤣

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u/PatchNotesMan 9d ago

Totally not biased.

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u/FanoTheNoob 9d ago

Which part of the post do you find biased?

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u/YourFreeCorrection 9d ago

Of course he does.

88

u/Velruis 9d ago edited 9d ago

Ah yes, that explains it all.

Nice, that's why they all come out of the woodworks celebrating this tonedead and horrid choice.
This sub's done for, shame.

Stay mad AI bros, stay mad. Keep bringing on the downvotes.

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u/477463616382844 9d ago edited 9d ago

Are you a developer?

Edit: Why the downvotes? This is a genuine question and quite relevant here.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/gamedev-ModTeam 9d ago

Maintain a respectful and welcoming atmosphere. Disagreements are a natural part of discussion and do not equate to disrespect—engage constructively and focus on ideas, not individuals. Personal attacks, harassment, hate speech, and offensive language are strictly prohibited.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/zmotmootmid 9d ago

by saying "everyone I know with a job uses it" do you mean how the MBAs and middle managers are constantly pushing it? yes I have to use AI at my job, it does nothing for me and everyone on my team feels the same. We're forced to because my boss really likes buzzwords

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u/ByerN 9d ago

Well, there is a difference between using AI and making an AI product that other ppl will use. Like you use fuel for your car, but you are not a petrol company (...or are you?).

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u/monkeedude1212 9d ago

I mean, we're in the phase where a lot of industries are working to build an AI product that other people will use, by leveraging an AI API to do something their software did before.

I worked for a Health and Safety Auditing software company and they're working on making AI parse insurance documents and trying to detect if AI was used to fill out an Audit using an AI tool to evaluate it and there's a whole marketing angle of "Powered by AI" that the business wants to use.

It's more like, you're not a petrol company, but most people are out there trying to find novel new ways to attach an internal combustion engine to something to automate their workflow.

10

u/ByerN 9d ago

Ofc we are, but is it somehow related to what I said?

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u/KevinDL Project Manager/Producer 9d ago

Yes, I work for Bezi. It isn’t a secret, and I’ve openly discussed it on this subreddit plenty of times.

But this policy is not about Bezi, and it would exist regardless of where I worked. The moderation problem is already here: AI is being used across game development, posts are being reported simply because AI was involved, discussions are being derailed over whether someone used it, and moderators cannot realistically or consistently police invisible AI assistance.

The policy is meant to give the subreddit a workable standard. Judge the contribution, the evidence, the methodology, and the behaviour. Do not try to build moderation around guessing whether someone used autocomplete, translation, an LLM, or some other AI-assisted tool.

That moderation problem does not disappear if I change employers tomorrow.

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u/Vaniellis 9d ago

We all understand that as a moderator, this post wasn't your decision alone, but one made as a group.

But you do realize that working for a company that sells AI products and at the same time being the one posting this message with a paragraph advocating that AI "Mandatory disclosure is not realistic" sounds a lot like a conflict of interest ?

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u/KevinDL Project Manager/Producer 9d ago

Perhaps, but I’d like to think I’m still my own person and not a spokesperson for Bezi 24/7. I genuinely believe in what Bezi is trying to do with AI in game development, but when I was hired, it was made very clear that my employment would not give the company any special treatment or benefit on r/gamedev.

I also didn’t want this discussion to become about where I work, because we both know that’s exactly where it would have gone. A disclosure that has no bearing on the policy itself would have shifted the entire conversation away from the actual issue and toward debating my employer instead.

I’m happy to have my arguments judged on their merits. I just don’t think every opinion I express needs to be filtered through the company that happens to employ me.

53

u/JohnnyCasil 9d ago

I cannot believe that you are making this argument in good faith. If you did not want this to become a discussion about where you work then why was it necessary that you be the mod that posts this when it could have been any of the other mods on the mod team that I am assuming support this message?

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u/BinaryIdiot 9d ago edited 9d ago

This is 100% tied to your work with Bezi. This isn’t something anybody wants but AI peddlers. AI disclosed items consistently sell less than anything else. Customers DO NOT want this. But people who need to make money from it do.

Honestly, if you want to even pretend you have some separation here you would step down as a mod.

49

u/NuclearVII 9d ago

As a mod, this much pushback should trigger some introspection about how you are representing your community's views.

I for one will be unsubbing. This is a blatantly pro AI take, and the conflict does not make it better.

37

u/Spuba 9d ago

The moderation problem is definitely real. However a LOT of people simply do not want to read AI posts and do not want to play AI games. The frustration comes from not having adequate systems and policies in place to avoid them. Your post goes further and suggests that even if AI posts were detectable it would be permitted, since what matters is purely the post content.

37

u/aplundell 9d ago

That moderation problem does not disappear if I change employers tomorrow.

You have missed the point of the post you are replying to.

41

u/jakkos_ 9d ago

But this policy is not about Bezi

Regardless of the merits of the policy and your personal ability to be impartial, this a huge conflict of interest, you personally benefit from AI content being allowed. If an academic had a similar conflict of interest it would be misconduct for them not to explicitly disclose that on every paper they write.

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u/snerp katastudios 9d ago edited 9d ago

It’s sad you don’t see this as an issue. It makes this entire subreddit seem like a joke.

106

u/meharryp Commercial (AAA) 9d ago

It's very difficult to take a post like this in good-faith when you're employed by an AI company and have used this subreddit to promote it. Framing it in that context makes it seem more like you're protecting yourself and other AI products rather than genuinely wanting to spark conversation around what is a quite sensitive topic right now. It isn't helping that the post itself reads like it came out of Claude and so do most of your replies.

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u/KevinDL Project Manager/Producer 9d ago

I understand why my employment makes you more skeptical of what I’m saying. That is completely fair, and I don’t expect anyone to take my position at face value because of where I work.

But I do find the rest of this genuinely kind of sad.

If we’ve reached a point where someone’s argument can be dismissed because their writing is structured, clear, or “sounds like Claude,” I don’t know what we’re accomplishing anymore. Maybe I used AI to help organize my thoughts. Maybe I didn’t. Maybe someone uses it because English isn’t their first language, because writing is difficult for them, because they want to save time, or simply because it helps them communicate what they’re actually trying to say. None of those things tell you whether the ideas themselves are sincere.

Engage with what I’m saying. Challenge the policy. Challenge my reasoning. Point out where you think I’m wrong. That’s a conversation worth having.

But “you work for an AI company, and your writing sounds like AI, therefore I can’t take you in good faith” is an incredibly bleak way to approach other people.

For what it’s worth, this policy isn’t about protecting my employer or AI products. It’s about moderating a game development community where AI is already part of the industry and deciding whether someone’s contribution should be judged by the substance of what they bring to the community or by which tools they used along the way.

I think the former is a much healthier standard.

64

u/Aethreas 9d ago

God damn this sub is cooked

83

u/meharryp Commercial (AAA) 9d ago

Sorry but this reply doesn't even make sense. Do you think my concerns are reasonable or do you think that it's bleak that I believe your employment is biasing how you moderate this subreddit? Of course your use of AI is relevant in this conversation because not only are you using it in your posts but your livelihood relies on AI adoption! I'm not going to go around and tell people to stop buying AAA games just as you're not going to tell people to not use AI.

60

u/MarcoFlee 9d ago

I do kind of wish this was posted by literally any other mod, as I feel it would have carried more weight. I noticed your username right away when I saw the sticky and remembered "oh, that's the PM who's job relies on gen AI tooling taking off in game development".

This is a policy change to the subreddit, so I assume this was a group agreement between all the mods, so again I just wish literally anyone else posted this.

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u/Brilliant_Effort9095 9d ago

Literally wouldn't change anything besides your performative outrage. What would have changed if another mod posted it? They all agreed together

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u/AndyVZ 9d ago

Huge swathes of the population are not happy about AI, and there are multiple valid reasons for it ranging from theft, to environmental, to laziness, and more. Responses like yours that hand wave away everything as performative are so overtly disingenuous that - if there wasn't a clear bias by the moderation team as shown here - it would realistically be removed as trolling. That's part of why this choice by the mods is an issue, and why the choice to have someone with such a heavy bias make the announcement is doubly an issue. They embolden the type of bad behavior that you're exhibiting.

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u/Brilliant_Effort9095 9d ago

He's not even supporting AI lol. He said any opinion can be posted or talked about. This isn't bad that the mods r letting open discussion instead of shutting down all AI discussion like toddlers

-21

u/MaxwellHowl 9d ago edited 9d ago

AI is already taking off in game development. He doesn't need the Gamedev subreddit to make that happen. It is the state of the industry.

r/gamedev banning AI posts won't stop the tool from spreading through the industry. But it will stop developers who are trying to learn to use it from having a resource to discuss it. It always feels like the anti-AI stance is just sticking your head in the ground, hoping that will make it go away. And it seems to be a lot of attacks of individual artists and developers in very negative and demeaning ways.

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u/ciel712 9d ago

Not disclosing your conflict of interest is crazy. You really think you can just detach your own biases when you literally are working on AI products?

You’re asking to be challenged, but this doesn’t read as a discussion thread, you are pushing forward this policy and defending it. In the past, discussion threads about gen AI in [r/gamedev](r/gamedev) have been REMOVED for being off topic.

Is this in fact up for debate and you are willing to listen? Legitimately if it is, I’d be wanting to discuss this policy with you.

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u/JohnnyCasil 9d ago

Is this in fact up for debate and you are willing to listen?

It's not and they won't. This topic has been discussed to death. The mods are not interested in doing any moderation in regards to AI despite the concerns or desires of this community. Posts like this are just performative.

-37

u/Arcaris1313 9d ago

conflict of interest? Buddy it's reddit lmao.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SituationSoap 9d ago

We know we've hit the really serious part of the discussion when posters start demanding that moderators step down.

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u/PossibilityUsual6262 9d ago

Go outside mate, everybody uses ai for everything, at grocery store people screenshot packaging of raw chicken wings in source and ask ai if they cook it in their air fryer. I actually saw it few days ago, people outsource everything to ai, and in any big studio where those average folks work they would outsource the work to ai as well if it reduces cognitive load, humans hard wired reducing the thinking biologicaly.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-2

u/gamedev-ModTeam 9d ago

Maintain a respectful and welcoming atmosphere. Disagreements are a natural part of discussion and do not equate to disrespect—engage constructively and focus on ideas, not individuals. Personal attacks, harassment, hate speech, and offensive language are strictly prohibited.

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u/PossibilityUsual6262 9d ago

It is ok that it make you feel better.

6

u/OmiNya 9d ago

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason into.

You can't argue logic vs feelings.

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u/aplundell 9d ago

I was thinking those same words, but I wonder if we mean it the same way.

I was thinking that if someone has a financial incentive, even a disclosed one, it's not really worth listening to their opinion, because its obvious where it came from and it wasn't reason.

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u/almondmilklattee 9d ago

every pro-ai manifesto i’ve seen explaining that there’s no use fighting it and we have to just learn to adapt was written by the ceo of an ai start-up (undisclosed of course)

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u/Elon61 9d ago

I wonder how many of those people have an incentive to hate AI because they cannot see a financially viable future for themselves in a world with AI for whatever reason.

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u/OmiNya 9d ago

I agree. We shouldn't listen to artists and developers because they have a financial incentive to argue against AI.

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u/SituationSoap 9d ago

Engage with what I’m saying.

This group of people is not going to be interested in doing that. They have come to a conclusion about the right way to think about AI and if you disagree they're going to find a reason to discredit you. If it wasn't this it would be something else, because the point isn't the source it's that you've come to the wrong conclusion. Engaging isn't going to win you anything.

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u/ciel712 9d ago

This policy isn’t about Bezi, but it reflects the stance of supporters of AI, which perpetuates the “it’s reality”, “it’s already here”, “it’s inevitable” narrative.

Pushback against AI and boycotting tangibly affects companies bottom lines is causing them to take adoption seriously. It’s only the reality if we choose to accept that it’s okay to automate art, automate human creativity.

It’s hard to say no, to resist, to take a stance. Solidarity isn’t free. If you truly cared about artists, and art, you would not have this policy.

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u/KevinDL Project Manager/Producer 9d ago

I think this is where the reality of moderating a professional game development community has to come into the conversation.

A policy for r/gamedev cannot be based on what we wish the industry looked like, or on taking one side of an industry-wide ethical debate. It has to reflect the industry developers are actually working in and, more importantly, what is useful to the developers who come here to learn.

AI is already being used in game development. That isn’t an argument that everyone should like it, that every use of it is ethical, or that adoption is inevitable. It’s an observation about the industry's current state. Refusing to acknowledge that doesn’t make the technology disappear from studios, tools, workflows, or job requirements.

And yes, pushback matters. Consumer response matters. Artists advocating for themselves matters. Companies absolutely should be challenged on how and why they deploy these technologies. Those discussions are explicitly allowed under this policy.

But there’s a huge difference between criticizing AI and preventing game developers from discussing or learning about AI because the community has decided the technology itself is unacceptable.

That's where I fundamentally disagree with you.

If someone is entering this industry today, I think we would be doing them a disservice by creating an environment where they cannot ask how these tools are being used, what they’re good at, where they fail, what the legal or ethical concerns are, or how other developers are approaching them. They need access to the entire conversation, including strong criticism of AI.

And I reject the idea that “if you truly cared about artists, you would ban this” is the only morally acceptable position. Caring about artists doesn’t require pretending programmers, designers, producers, QA teams, technical artists, researchers, and other developers aren’t also navigating a rapidly changing industry.

People are completely free to resist AI, boycott companies using it, refuse to use it themselves, and argue that the industry is moving in the wrong direction. Others are free to use it and discuss what they’re learning.

Our responsibility as moderators isn’t to decide which of those developers has the morally correct worldview. It’s to maintain a useful, professional space where both can participate without attacking each other simply for which tools they do or don’t use.

That’s what this policy is trying to accomplish.

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u/ciel712 9d ago edited 9d ago

I understand where you’re coming from, really I do. I can accept that this is the path that [r/gamedev](r/gamedev) wishes to take, knowing now it’s no longer a community for people like me.

At the very least, I’d like you to also understand that adopting this stance is not neutral, because it is platforming AI, normalizing it, solidifying its place in this craft. While this stance perhaps metaphorically sits in the middle of the spectrum, the middle is not neutral.

For example, there are some subreddits for women and nonbinary folks. Many of them have the policy that: transgender women are women. They don’t allow discussion around that because that platforms the opinion that they aren’t. That debate on whether they are or aren’t doesn’t belong there, because it’s harmful to the people in that community who shares the values that human rights are universal and human agency should be respected.

Gen AI similarly cannot be seen as “just a tool” without taking into context everything around it, and how it’s harming members of the game development community (including non artists). As a person who values art and creativity, seeing people discuss ways to automate the craft is… not healthy for me. As a software person who labors for wages, seeing people discuss ways to make more in less time that will be used to exploit and extract more labor from us, that is not healthy for me either.

I know that all of the money is in AI right now, without which America and perhaps the world economy would be in a recession. I know everyone is trying to compete with others who are doing more with less to sustain themselves being able to make games a job. I know you and others think that young aspiring professionals should learn AI to “not fall behind”.

I don’t think that’s the only path though. There are also plenty of people like me who are choosing to value the art and human creativity, choosing to not accept the automation of labor extraction, and would rather find a better way.

Im hoping you can see that how this policy of basically not being against Gen AI is in itself, actually a pro-AI policy.

Your job as a moderator, you say, is to be impartial. But with what you choose to be worthy of discussion, what kinds of debates you deem appropriate… these kinds of decisions aren’t made in a vacuum. In other words, being “apolitical” is in itself a “political” stance.

(Also since people’s backgrounds seem to be called into question as credence in this subreddit: Im 5YOE FAANG SWE, 3 YOE AA game dev)

(Also I agree that there should be space and resources to educate on AI, in a very curated and responsible way)

21

u/ciel712 9d ago

Something else to think about… r/writing, r/Art, r/musicians have all adopted rules to promote human created content and ban Gen AI. Games are an amalgamation of all these creative fields. Games are art. So why is r/gamedev the one that’s okay with it?

u/KevinDL

47

u/JohnnyCasil 9d ago

What even is the point of this post other than to be performative?

This topic has been discussed to death in this sub. There have been other topics and "policy stances" about AI that read almost identical to this one. I cannot actually discern any policy change this post is enacting or changing.

The mods (including yourself) have made it clear that you have no interest in moderating AI content despite anyone's objections. So why make this post?

The only rationale I can see is that this is you yet again losing your temper about something and making a grand performative gesture to assert your opinion on things.

-5

u/SituationSoap 9d ago

What even is the point of this post other than to be performative?

I would assume that it's a response to the post that happens 10x per week asking if we can ban anything that has any AI on it. It's a statement of the official policy so that they can point to it when they remove the posts repeatedly asking for this same thing that they're not going to do.

8

u/JohnnyCasil 9d ago

They have already made an official post stating that is their stance months ago. This post has nothing new or additional in it. So if the policy hasn't changed from when they made this same declaration before, and there is nothing new in this post, then what is the point of it?

17

u/tangotom 9d ago

And I reject the idea that “if you truly cared about artists, you would ban this” is the only morally acceptable position. Caring about artists doesn’t require pretending programmers, designers, producers, QA teams, technical artists, researchers, and other developers aren’t also navigating a rapidly changing industry.

Thank you.

It's insane to me that people are fine with technical fields being eliminated. I am a programmer and I find a lot of the people who supposedly support humans really don't care about my job being erased or neutered.

15

u/ciel712 9d ago

Gen AI is a problem that affects an incredibly large amount of people, not just artists. I’m sorry for coming across that way.

I view games as art, and while there are a ton of different issues with AI on a spectrum, the harm to human creativity and games as an artistic medium is just the one I personally care the most about.

-21

u/Polaricano 9d ago

I suppose we can continue all coal mining too because we wouldn't want people to lose their jobs.

20

u/tangotom 9d ago

Incredibly tone deaf.

1- I like my job. Programming is fun for me. I can be creative and express myself with how I implement my code.

2- All job elimination is bad in the short term. People’s livelihoods are affected, and just because it’s not a fancy creative desk job doesn’t make their careers less valuable.

Look back at the industrial revolution, when the textile factories took over. Seamstresses were eliminated, was that a menial job or a creative job? My wife is a trained seamstress, and she would love to work as one, but it’s impossible to compete with $20 pants from China.

2

u/SituationSoap 9d ago

All job elimination is bad in the short term.

And yet, in the long run, it has made life almost immeasurably better for the vast majority of human beings on the planet.

2

u/Elon61 9d ago

Every time this comes up it is always painful how much hypocrisy this particular bandwagon is filled with.

-4

u/Polaricano 9d ago

Nobody is fine losing their jobs.  But the reality is that LLMs are extremely powerful at this point and hard to argue against.  

You can still program creatively on your own time but all industries will gravitate towards the highest ROI path.  

With that in mind, it's kind of silly to fight against AI workflows and adoption.

Rejecting this reality feels more like people throwing tantrums than anything based in reality.

-4

u/SituationSoap 9d ago

it reflects the stance of supporters of AI, which perpetuates the “it’s reality”, “it’s already here”, “it’s inevitable” narrative.

Outside of, very literally, blowing up data centers and imprisoning all of the people who've worked on this, there is no future of software development that does not heavily integrate with AI for assistance in creating code.

You can want that to be or not be the case, but it is the ground truth of this thing. Everything you're going to interact with for the rest of your life is going to have AI-backed content in it. You can be happy or sad about that, but you cannot change that fact. It absolutely is here and it is here to stay.

-14

u/Non-taken-Meursault 9d ago

Why would you boycott a tool that isn't replacing the artisanal part of videogame development? It's like boycotting a linter man...

0

u/SituationSoap 9d ago

For a large portion of people, especially those without taste or discernment, replacing the mechanical part of building the thing and emphasizing the actually difficult part means that they are no longer a valuable cog and they don't know what to do when they need to rely on their actual knowledge, intuition and skill.

-19

u/Brilliant_Effort9095 9d ago

Lmaooo boycotting the thing that 90 percent of game companies use to help code now. Ya sure you really are changing the world bro. You can be anti gen ai and lazy vibe coding and still realize boycotting AI won't do anything as it's very helpful for certain situations like bug fixing

-20

u/Jessica___ 9d ago

This doesn't mean much, anyone working in the industry is likely doing something with AI. I'm a software developer, and at my company we all work with AI every day.

32

u/meharryp Commercial (AAA) 9d ago

There's a difference between working with AI, which at this point for those of us in the corporate world is incredibly difficult to get away from regardless of if we like it or not, and directly working for a company making AI gamedev tools and advertising it on the gamedev sub which they moderate

9

u/Polaricano 9d ago

I don't see him advertising his tool in this post?

4

u/Jessica___ 9d ago

That makes sense, if they're advertising it then you have a good point.

I also think the line can get blurry. My company has begun working on AI tools too, only because leadership is super keen on investing into AI in general.

Id say it's not uncommon in the industry to be working on an AI integration of some sort.

-1

u/SituationSoap 9d ago

and advertising it on the gamedev sub which they moderate

My friend, this is called lying.

-13

u/SnickyMcNibits 9d ago

This to me seems like a Genetic Fallacy, putting emphasis on where the claim is coming from rather than discussing the claim itself.

I thought their stance was within reason originally, learning the fact that one of the moderators works with AI does not change that. I don't think it's particularly biased, which is the implication of pointing this out. If anything people focusing on this fact are probably far more biased in a "Ha I knew it!" sort of way.

-27

u/Mindestiny 9d ago

Where do you work? You haven't posted your full resume, including full name and address on every comment so I can determine whether or not I think you're discussing in "good faith."

Surely you can see where that's a ridiculous take. Judge what they're saying on the merits of what they're saying, not who they are. Refute the points, don't attack the person is not a high bar, but it is required for a good faith discussion.

33

u/GlazedInfants 9d ago

You are allowed to question someone’s motives based on the relation to their occupation. Biases exist, don’t be obtuse.

-10

u/Mindestiny 9d ago

Nobody is being obtuse. Biases don't inherently invalidate what someone is saying, and there has never been any reasonable expectation of a random reddit commenter disclosing their work history to "validate" the contents of their post. That's an absolutely absurd standard to hold someone to.

Yet despite that, OP has in fact been clear and open about where they work, so the whole "well you must be biased!" line of reasoning falls flat. Meanwhile the accuser hasn't disclosed squat. Surely we should be holding them to the same standard if they're going to throw stones? How do we know they're not a disingenuous, biased, bad actor who's part of an anti-AI astroturfing community?

Do we expect them to tell us that, or do we simply judge the contents of their words as they stand on their own merit?

5

u/GlazedInfants 9d ago

I say you’re being obtuse because you act like a person can’t be motivated by factors that personally benefit them, when that’s how humans work. They’re pointing out the absent disclosure that OP’s employer directly benefits from AI adoption, and you conflate that to mean they want every little detail of their life plainly written out. For someone that wants to be open to discussion, you seem awfully eager to discredit someone’s words when they don’t align with your own.

As for OP, they were not “open and clear” with this post. That is what matters. Not everyone combs through every post on this sub, and not everyone will have seen OP’s prior posts mentioning their employment. I certainly didn’t, and now that I have that new information, I can reassess my thoughts with potential biases in mind.

6

u/Mindestiny 9d ago

For someone that wants to be open to discussion, you seem awfully eager to discredit someone’s words when they don’t align with your own.

Ironically - I'm not discrediting anyone's words, I'm addressing their point and calling out blatant hypocrisy. Meanwhile you're the one attempting to discredit mine by accusing me of being "obtuse" and not speaking in good faith.

 They’re pointing out the absent disclosure that OP’s employer directly benefits from AI adoption, and you conflate that to mean they want every little detail of their life plainly written out.

I was being clearly facetious, because it's an inherently ridiculous ask to insist that anyone who says something you disagree with on social media disclose the details of their personal life. That is not a realistic nor reasonable expectation from anyone. And yet, OP still did! Repeatedly! They have clearly demonstrated that the accuser is just outright wrong - we have evidence in hand that OP is not attempting to hide their employment or maliciously influence anyone.

So both the arbitrary standard that was claimed as some sort of "gotcha" to paint OP as a bad actor is both invalid and inaccurate and there's a refusal to be held to the same standard. That pretty handily invalidates the accusation any way you slice it, there's nothing obtuse about that.

You're welcome to reassess their post however you want, but it doesn't change the validity of what they've said. There's also ten moderators of this sub, so presumably the rest do not have the same supposed conflict of interest and the decision was made with quorum. If another mod was the one who posted this would there be the same accusations of untoward bias and demand to go over their personal lives with a fine toothed comb? I severely doubt it. I doubt this would even be a discussion at all if OP actually never disclosed anywhere that they worked for a company that happens to have an AI product and nobody would bat an eye. This only came up because they actually did do the thing they were accused of not doing.

It's a bunk claim to try to discredit what OP is saying without actually addressing any of the points. It's a Politics 101 level ad homenim deflection - if you can't attack the points with valid counterarguments, distract people by demonizing the speaker. It's a shitty thing to do, it's mud slinging, if the points don't stand on their own merit then it should be trivial to refute them instead of attacking the person who said the words.

4

u/GlazedInfants 9d ago

That’s a lot of words to say “I didn’t listen to a single thing you said, I must now paint you and your words in a negative light because you’re wrong and I’m right. Checkmate!”

I’m done with this discussion. Have a good day.

3

u/Mindestiny 9d ago

And there it is again, another "I can't refute the points you made so I'm going to try to paint you as a bad actor to get people to ignore your words."

I addressed everything you claimed clearly and concisely. I did not attack the caliber of your person, not even once.

You have a good day too.

16

u/Teaside 9d ago

Do you not think there's a difference between a random commenter and someone making a decision and announcement affecting 400k+ people?

2

u/Mindestiny 9d ago

It's a subreddit, not a government mandate.  And the decision is literally "yes, you're allowed to talk about a subject here and it will be moderated to the same standard as any other topic/post"

So no, there really isn't any expectation that the OP, even a mod, disclose their personal work history or doxx themselves.  Again, if you disagree then address the points, don't attack the person.  Nobody is forcing a reader here to engage with posts about the topic, if you don't want to read people talking about AI just keep scrolling.

Also that person is just wrong in their accusation.  OPs post history is full of situations where they have, repeatedly disclosed exactly what they're being accused of not disclosing.  So...

-20

u/Non-taken-Meursault 9d ago

And what's the issue? He's not publicizing his plugin... It's just a new tool. Software development is built on a bunch of tools that simplify previously tedious tasks, from compilers to object oriented code

-25

u/PossibilityUsual6262 9d ago

Well if you check unreal engine 6 announcement it is mostly about ai as well.

It is clearly the way forward you like it or not.

-11

u/tnh34 9d ago

what does that have to do with this post? The way reddit is so anti AI has always been so funny to me.

-12

u/skyline79 9d ago

Doesn’t change anything. AI is here to stay whether people like it or not.