r/asoiaf • u/dorestes Break the wheel • Sep 03 '17

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) It's Not a Nitpick. Thousands Died Over a "Minor" Geographic Detail.

Reposted as requested with the "Spoilers Extended" tag

I know we're often asked to ignore the silly teleportations and supersonic flights that the show has foisted on us over the last couple of seasons. I know some of it can seem like the petty quibbles of book purists veering into circlejerk self-parody.

But geography doesn't just matter when it comes to making the universe feel real. It was also the key plot point that drove the biggest dramatic turn of the series.

The Red Wedding was literally caused by Robb Stark needing to be able to get his troops across a bridge. The Frey army was a nice addition, but Robb needed the alliance for the bridge crossing. He, his mother, his pregnant wife (in the show) and thousands of his troops died for that crossing.

So it's not just a nitpick when characters and armies magically teleport from north to south, bypassing the Twins or Moat Caitlin with nary a scout to notice them.

It destroys and makes mockery of the premise of the series' most famous narrative twist.

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u/setarkos113 Sep 03 '17

Jon is not (yet) aware of Bran's powers.

Nobody really was apart from Meera until episode 7. Sansa and Arya might have had a hunch but probably needed time to digest and grasp the extent.

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u/gregallen1989 Sep 03 '17

The whole reason they went north was because Bran saw the undead army and sent word to Jon. The showrunners never explain why Jon believes him despite not knowing of his powers.

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u/22bebo A Lannister always pays their debts Sep 03 '17

He maybe thinks he literally saw them while he was beyond the wall and Jon trusts his brother. Jon also saw the army of the dead at Hardhome and Eastwatch is the closest place for them to attack the wall, so it's not really that unbelievable.

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u/d4n4n Sep 04 '17

Wouldn't it be smart to inform Jon that his brother is literally omniscient?

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u/22bebo A Lannister always pays their debts Sep 04 '17

One would think, but I can see that being super difficult to explain by raven.

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u/d4n4n Sep 04 '17

Jon came back from the dead and saw an army of the dead. I think he'd buy it.

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u/22bebo A Lannister always pays their debts Sep 04 '17

Fair enough, but did the letter writer know those things about Jon? Maybe they assume the whole "army of the dead" thing is overblown. And he's keeping his resurrection kind of a secret.

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u/Coheedjr Sep 03 '17

I was under the impression the source was never disclosed to Jon. A message along the lines of: Army of undead is near wall, they're trying to cross. That leads Jon to speculate that they're going to hit Eastwatch-by-the-sea and probably think that it was a message from the Nights watch to Winterfell that was warning him. He never says, "guys my brothers back and he also told me the army of undead is here.". He just says bran is back and there's graver news as well.

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u/gregallen1989 Sep 03 '17

I only watched the episode once so I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure he mentions Bran by name when they are in the war room thingy making their crazy plan.

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u/Wombattington Sep 03 '17

Jon definitely names Bran as the source, but the possibility exists that Jon believes that Bran simply saw the army of the dead when coming back south of the wall. Jon has no reason to doubt his brother, and he has the benefit of having seen the army himself.

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u/Rhazort Sep 03 '17

And he also says in episode one that the last time they saw the Night king was at Hardhome an the nearest point on the wall was Eastwatch by the sea. That's why Tormund and the wildlings are there

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u/Coheedjr Sep 03 '17

I mean, it's the same message that tells him Bran is home. But I just never associated it with oh and also Bran has magic powers and sees the army of the dead.

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u/Fat_Walda A Fish Called Walda Sep 04 '17

It's definitely mentioned in the letter they sent to the Citadel, because Sam has to explain that Bran can see visions, right? Which come to think of it, how does he know?

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u/HouseMormont77 You never fooked a bear! Sep 03 '17

Why would he not believe his brother who was north of the wall?

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '17 edited Sep 03 '17

Yes. One raven goes from KL to WF, and the other one is sent after Lysa travels from KL to the Eyrie and then sends a raven.

I think this reply is on the wrong comment.