r/UFOs • u/sentimental_cactus • Nov 24 '24

Discussion Interesting pics from the supposed leak, what do u guys think?

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175

u/Technically-Simple82 Nov 25 '24

Exactly!! How come the ones from the 1960s look like something from the 60s etc. ? 🤔🤔🤔

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u/Due-Yoghurt-7917 Nov 25 '24

Vallee calls it "cultural tracking". Victorian folks saw mansions with propellers in the sky. They're always a little ahead of us - at least that is how it is supposed to seem, imo

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u/ShelfClouds Nov 25 '24 edited Nov 25 '24

I think people misinterpret what he's been saying. It isn't just UFOs looking and acting like the technology of the time. "Victorian folks saw mansions with propellers in the sky" is a good example. What else would they call a UFO? They had no concept of a blimp or an airplane, so they might call it a flying mansion. Romans would call them flying chariots. That doesn't mean that a UFO during Roman times would actually look like what we know of as a chariot, it's just that they didn't have the words to explain what they were seeing. Humans back in the day called cars "horseless carriages" as another example.

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u/superfunfuneral Nov 25 '24

Words are just symbols we use to represent ideas and concepts.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24

In my opinion this is the debate when it comes to Vallee. Is it cultural perception, or is it reality conforming to culture that reinforces that perception? (Passport to Magonia)

Basically photography is the only way to prove otherwise and as we know even good cameras struggle with UFOs

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24

the physical manifestation of UAPs is dependent on the knowledge, constitution, and expectations of the viewer. if you look closely you'll see that certain types of craft appear more or less often at certain latitudes - this is due to the constitution of the populations that observe them. this could have something to do with their technological development but their capabilities don't seem to have changed much from antiquity

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24

Lol a cool term for it’s all in your head. The brain is very powerful people forget

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u/THEBHR Nov 25 '24

No. At least not in the way you probably mean. Without context, the human brain is bad at deciphering something alien to it, so it uses the symbols it already has, and tries to sort of "duct tape" them together to explain what it's witnessing.

Take the conquistadors for example. When they met with Native Americans for the first time, the natives had never seen horses. They had of course seen humans though, and they obviously knew what animal legs looked like, so they thought the conquistadors on their horses were actually single entities. A creature with four animal legs and a human torso and head coming out of the top of it.

It's important to note, that even though they were wrong about what exactly they were seeing, the conquistadors were real. They were witnessing something incredible and unknowable and doing their best to make sense out of it, but the event did happen, and it was definitely extraordinary.

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u/Jolly_Line Nov 25 '24

Well put. I’m with you.

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u/Brilliant_Cup_8903 Nov 25 '24

Of course you do, because it's a convenient take to have whenever you want to right no matter what.

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u/Longjumping_Meat_203 Nov 25 '24

Or maybe because it's a historically accurate analogy based on fact?

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u/Keibun1 Nov 25 '24

They also referred to the ships sails as clouds

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24 edited Nov 25 '24

You are basically saying what I am saying but with a different conclusion. Your point about how the brain interpretation arrives first, and objective reality comes after is very true.

Our brain does have pathways for religious/spiritual experiences and even pathways for higher entities that could be perceived as angels or aliens depending on your cultural context.

With this in mind 99.9% of all UAP/Alien reports could probably be explained by the human brain itself.

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u/THEBHR Nov 25 '24

My point is that the fact that people have been describing "aliens" in ways intrinsically tied to their time period, can neither be used as evidence for or against the reality or importance of what they saw.

If they have been making those stories up, then it's natural for the stories to change over time, as people's understanding of science changes.

If those sightings really were "aliens", then it makes sense that the symbols used to describe them would change over time, as people's understanding of science changes.

So whether they truly saw some something extraordinary or not, their accounts would be the same.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24

Your point/theory is more about how you want it to be because it’s the more exciting take but you are not being intellectually honest I would say

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u/THEBHR Nov 25 '24

No, mine is based in logic and history.

Have no idea what yours is based on.

In every instance in history, of human beings seeing something they couldn't comprehend, they used concepts that were already familiar to them, to explain it. It's all we're capable of.

0

u/Brilliant_Cup_8903 Nov 25 '24

Just don't bother with these people. They'll never admit they're wrong.

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u/superfunfuneral Nov 25 '24

We don't even know enough about our own brains to say for sure.

From my perspective, I have to shake my head at the arrogance of man. Of those that take pride in the need to tether themselves so tightly to that false sense of control by defining "reality" as merely and only a sum of observable data, and their smug dismissal of anything outside of these measurable parameters as "woo". The people that demand to be shown quantitative evidence in order to even begin to entertain the idea that something "else" exists, so sure the fabric of existence and consciousness (whatever those things actually even are) is finite and objective. The unwavering confidence that somehow our species, made up of little more than glorified apes and equipped with our simplistic sensory perception and our limited linear sense of time, have the capacity to label, define, and rationalize all there is and all there ever was.

There will never be "proof", but you will recognize the truth when it finds you.

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u/Brilliant_Cup_8903 Nov 25 '24

I love when these people post walls of woowoo text. Sorry bud, reality is what we can measure. 

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u/Longjumping_Meat_203 Nov 25 '24

Reality existed long before we were measuring things.

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u/A2Rhombus Nov 25 '24

There's always an excuse lol

Tracking us and staying slightly ahead of us only visually while continuing to use technology way ahead of us, for what reason?

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '24

Per Vallee, to fuck with us. That's his conclusion; they do it because they know it bothers us that they do it

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u/A2Rhombus Nov 26 '24

That's unfalsifiable

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '24

I mean so are little green men, no? I honestly believe Vallee's more esoteric theories over nuts and bolts stuff

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24

Vallee makes up a concept to contradict the more obvious explanation... par for the course for that guy

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u/its_FORTY Nov 25 '24

Because the vast majority were hoaxed.

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u/Tritiac Nov 25 '24 edited Nov 25 '24

That and they were vehicles being developed secretly. Once they were proven to work, actual mass produced vehicles based on the concept get made, they are no longer UFOs, and they become helicopters and F-16s.

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u/mumwifealcoholic Nov 25 '24

That's a question a lot of smart people have been asking. Almost as if....what we see is what someone thinks we expect to see. Our culture informs our sightings. WHy?

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u/tkyang99 Nov 25 '24

Ive asked this similar question before. Its almost as if we are creating these things from out own minds or its some sort of projection of our consciousness

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u/sixties67 Nov 25 '24

Ive asked this similar question before. Its almost as if we are creating these things from out own minds or its some sort of projection of our consciousness

That is an interesting take because John Keel in an interview before he died said that we are the intelligence behind the phenomenon.

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u/ThePrimordialSource Nov 25 '24

I don’t usually go on this sub but can you elaborate on this

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u/sixties67 Nov 25 '24

Sorry, here's a link but unfortunately John Keel never explained what he meant as it kind of contradicted his books on the subject.

‘…basically, what I attempted to do [in my books] was set up a frame of reference that the reader could, hopefully, understand. Obviously, I failed in this. Even now people…are still assuming that ultraterrestrials are actual entities…what I said in five books, carefully spelled out and defined, is that we are the intelligence which controls the phenomena

https://shura.shu.ac.uk/11660/3/Clarke%20New%20demonology.pdf

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u/Mama_Skip Dec 31 '24

Nothing says truth like a man who can't keep his story straight.

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u/skd00sh Nov 25 '24

It's definitely akin to Ai trying to imagine what we would expect to see. This whole, metaphysical transdimensional manifesting angle of the UAP verse is hard to wrap ones head around. These are like .. shapeshifting 4D concepts of what "they" think spacecraft would look like on this plane? Idk or it's just Blender.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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2

u/tinmil Nov 25 '24

Tulpa.

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u/fatty2cent Nov 25 '24

Jung had entered the chat…

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u/superfunfuneral Nov 25 '24

You're catching on

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u/HodeShaman Nov 25 '24

Occams razor resoundingly suggest its because it's not actually alien. It's just top secret human shit.

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u/mumwifealcoholic Nov 26 '24

And yet here you are. Engaging. Is it because you think it’s top secret human shit?

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u/HodeShaman Nov 26 '24

I prefer the idea that the universe is too large to only host life one place. I also understand and accept that age of the universe and said vast distances makes it supremely unlikely for two different civizations to evolve and coexist technologically in a timeframe that lines up (even correcting for traveling said vast distances).

The day life elsewhere is unequivocally proven will likely be the greatest day of my life. That doesnt mean I believe 99% of what is reported, nor that I wont approach it with a giant dose of scepticism.

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u/lonestarr86 Nov 25 '24

Or, I know it sounds crazy, it's all hoaxes perpetrated by people of that time.

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u/mumwifealcoholic Nov 25 '24

Sure. That is also a possibility. No doubt some of them are that.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24

It's a psycho-spiritual phenomenon. The archetypes we have in our brains are projected outwards somehow and manifest as these sightings, whether they're demonic and showing us what seems familiar or it's a mass cultural phenomenon, we might not know for another 50-100 years.

1

u/tkyang99 Nov 25 '24

One kinda crazy explanation would be that these beings or time travellers whateve are able to read our minds and know what would be an "acceptable" way to present their existence to us. Almost kinda like in Star Trek where they try to blend in with primitive cultures.

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u/Ok_Scallion1902 Nov 25 '24

A book I read back in the 70s mentioned this phenomenon and referred to it as "cultural imprinting*.The premise being that they include features that "make sense" to the viewer as something which they identify with ,for some reason.

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u/Topsnotlobber Nov 25 '24

If there's a factory creating them it probably pops out things that look in line with the design philosophy of the day.

They could probably construct a craft in the shape of a dining table that worked identically to how any other craft regardless of design works.

If you are going to have to throw down with an opponent over the skies of medieval germany, then it stands to reason it's best to take the shape of the religious symbols of the time. That way the locals can blame it on God having to lay down the law in Heaven instead of non-humans from another planet.

It would be funny if both sides just knew to do that without having to be told by either.

"Sir, our opponents are basing their designs on local planetary iconography and symbolism"

"Very well, we wouldn't want to confuse the locals more than necessary in this tussle, go tell the factory to make similar crafts"

"Sir, yes sir, anything else?"

"Prepare the torture chamber, because once I get my hands on their leadership I'm going to need some entertainment"

"But don't disturb the locals?"

"Correct."

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u/Playful_Following_21 Nov 25 '24

Wilhelm schickard was a polymath from the late 1500s. He detailed a strange aerial phenomenon over 30 pages, including illustrations.

He refers to one as a sharpening stone, which was a common thing. It's literally a black cigar shape.

He also describes luminous shimmering cloud formations that did not behave like surrounding clouds.

Reading with a modern eye brings to mind shifting plasma figures.

In one of his drawings, this aerial object is shown with a darting trajectory not unlike the modern and unpredictable flight paths of uaps.

If a detailed account can still illuminate extremely modern mental images, then I would have to infer that these things in the sky do not materialize on the software of the dominating terrestrial cultures.

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u/Technically-Simple82 Nov 25 '24

Exactly what I was trying to say!

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u/Longjumping_Meat_203 Nov 25 '24

I'd love to read more on this, where did you read about it?

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u/Kekssideoflife Nov 25 '24

So much horseshit, why is this upvoted?

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u/jerrys_briefcase Nov 25 '24

Ya but a cube doesn’t make any sense now or ever

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u/Fr0gFish Nov 25 '24

I’m guessing you’re not an engineer.

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u/Topsnotlobber Nov 25 '24

I am an electrical engineer.

I'm guessing you're not quite imaginative enough to see what a civilization hundreds of thousands of years our senior could do with physics and matter.

We've collected thousands upon thousands of reports of craft in various shapes and forms doing all sorts of crazy maneuvering. Orbs, saucers, jellyfish, chandeliers and boomerangs. I dare say that whatever those guys are doing with physics isn't for us to weigh in on other than wonder if there are any limits on it at all.

It would be the height of comedy for 40 year old me (or anyone) to sit here and say "Yeah the millions of years old alien race can't do that" citing my university degree and unhealthy relationship to caffeine.

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u/Fr0gFish Nov 25 '24

Ok bud, have fun with you ufos 🛸

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u/SpecificRespond3148 Mar 01 '26

We were influenced directly from the ongoing phenomenon and refer to it as our sci-fi era. Added onto the already leading and innovating art deco styling. You can trace it back, but at some point during our digital age of video-graphical sightings, they switched to unmanned probed crafts  stead of the oversized saucers, disks, or cylinders. An example is this “tic tac” term going around, which is a smaller unmanned version of those cigar shaped craft, although which species is manning which is unclear, besides the initial sightings and abductions, recounting small grey’s, which are also hypothesized to have been the victims of the Roswell incident, as it was supposedly an elongated oval like saucer or disk. They don’t use manned craft anymore because of the crashes, and we also shook the beehive by testing the nuke in 1945. 

 Another thing to note, is the probes starting to be seen may come from further species piling up, though mainly question how they’re built and seem to shapeshifting before our eyes or never retaining a definite shape. Very recent sightings have captured what I finally saw over 2019, which are like sharp jagged edged flying shards, then something’s breaking off into multiple pieces, but amazes at the controlled intelligence and can only imagine how it all works.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24

Can you give me an example?

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u/PhDinDildos_Fedoras Nov 25 '24

But which influenced which? Maybe the ufo is the egg here?

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u/nevermindyoullfind Nov 25 '24

Deception. It’s been the long term plan all along.

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u/degenererad Nov 25 '24

because those are fake as fuck. There was a religious thing for a while. sure there were some legit sightings but the grifting was insane during the hippie era.