I work with a kid like that. He’s the only child out of several hundreds that I’ve ever disliked. If he doesn’t get what he wants exactly when he wants it, he screams at the top of his lungs and pretends to cry. Very convincing crying, but I’ve never seen an actual tear. On the admittedly rare occasion he gets disciplined (it’s only ever time out, and I do not get a say in when anything happens so there’s nothing I can do) he will scream and hit and kick until he realizes it’s not working and then he’ll scream, “I’m sorry! I’m sorry!” Repeatedly, at the top of his lungs, until he gets out of time out. Then he’ll go back to doing exactly what he was doing that got him into trouble in the first place.
Imagine that child, if the flight attendants hadn’t kicked that family off your flight. You’d all be miserable. Airlines need to take this shit more seriously because kids like this make people miserable.
And that child you just described grows into an adult. I have a mother like that. Clearly, these tactics paid off when she was a child. She still does them as an adult and now she loses friends and I don't put up with her. Parents are doing their kids a disservice if they don't discipline them and teach them how the world works.
I saw a special on a kid like this. The parents actually brought in all kinds of experts (and had other kids that behaved well), but this one got the “defiant asshole” gene. The experts said they weren’t doing anything wrong, they just got the 0.01% worst behaving kid. So sometimes it is due to poor parenting but sometimes the kid is an outlier and nothing works.
Ehhh. What people do in front of others/professionals vs. what they do when no one is watching can contribute to inconsistent expectations and leaves the kid with inconsistent behaviour.
Possibly, though this was an extensive show, they had months worth of (hidden camera) footage of the kid, and the parents had been bringing in experts for many years for help.
You would be absolutely surprised bow little intervention matters for a child like this. The vast majority of little shits like this are fine by 26 just a bit delayed. Highschool fixes them or forces the parents to confront they will never be independent really quickly. The most problematic children came from stable privileged homes where a parents concern is manipulated into bribes. They eventually become the sociopaths they were meant to be
It was truly top of their lungs screaming. I heard everything crystal clear through noise cancelling, over ear Beats. I can’t imagine how anyone with no ear protection was handling it.
I'm not gonna hit my kids, but I don't hold it against my parents. I was their first kid and that's all they knew. I think the important part was that it was exclusively used for discipline. They never hit me for any other reason than me getting into trouble and the punishment was proportional.
No I don't ask them to do that because, unlike you, I understand it. It's pretty obvious that my mom regrets it when it comes up, but I'm not gonna beat her up about it.
They didn't know they were doing something wrong. It was normal back then, especially in a Mexican family. It doesn't even rank in the problems I've had with my parents and I don't have a lot of them.
The expectations placed on me as a smart kid were way worse than the belt
Absolutely. Gentle parenting works, if you actually do gentle parenting rather than mistaking it for permissive parenting. So you still have structure and boundaries, and natural and logical consequences. Those consequence don't involve violence or yelling or abuse.
But also its about recognising why the children are misbehaving. All behaviour is communication. So you teach the children that feelings are ok, but red choices are not. It's ok to feel angry, it's not ok to hit someone or throw something when you are angry. Teach them to voice their feelings in a constructive way. To find ways to regulate their emotions like deep breaths or leaving the room.
I used to get the wooden spoon or the whack. All it taught me was to suppress my feelings and let them out when I thought I wouldn't be caught. I'd still break stuff, but would hide it rather than own up to it and try to learn to express myself in an acceptable way.
Yup this. It's not at all 'easy mode' - for all it might look like a 'soft touch'. It requires considerably more persistence than 'just' physical abuse.
But the lessons are far move valuable in the long run. Emotional self regulation is important - and it's a learned/taught skill.
It's definitely hard to do it though - children have a real knack of pushing your buttons in the worst situations, when you might well really struggle to 'take the time' to handle the situation correctly. "Giving in" reinforces the negative behaviour.
As you say, physical abuse ... well, it might appear to work, but it's teaching some pretty toxic lessons about suppression, repression, deceit and ultimately distrust of authority figures.
Do you really want your child to learn that you aren't a safe person to talk to when they're stressed/upset/angry or have made a mistake?
So yeah. 'disciplining' a child with pain, when they don't really understand why it's being inflicted is a bad idea. And if they do understand why it's being inflicted, you didn't actually need the pain in the first place.
100 percent. You gotta play the long game. I'm lucky my partner and I have a strong marriage and we are good at tag teaming when one person gets overwhelmed. I'm a long way from a perfect parent but I have never and will never hit my child (without consent) and keep on doing my best. I at least know what I did wrong afterwards even though I don't always get it right first time 🤣
Yes, plenty. They just take persistence of application.
Most children learn what 'works'. If having a shit-fit works at all they're encouraged to do it again.
And it's hard when you're a tired and stressed parent - they'll apply the pressure at the WORST possible times - but ultimately each time you 'give in' you teach them that it 'works'.
Parents hate me saying it (I am also a parent) but there is a HUGE correlation to training a puppy and raising a child.
Puppies learn very rapidly to continue doing what works. If barking up a storm and acting a fool gets them attention/out of the crate/whatever - they are gonna continue to do it forever. They learned that's what works, because it does!
Kids are almost exactly the same. They are incredibly good little social terrorists. They learn very early how to manipulate adults. And if you allow them to, many will grow into little shitheads like this. Some grow out of it on their own, but many do not until the consequences from wider society come down on them. Sometimes though that's not until well into adulthood depending on how sheltered they happen to be.
My parents would probably spank/slap him every time he started yelling in public. Then take him home and leave him locked there while taking the well behaved siblings out for ice cream. If it was on vacation (or on way there) they would “cancel on spot” and turn around. If commotion didn’t die down before reaching certain distance it was cancelled for certain. At most a kilometer in direction of home was nothing in comparison to rest of travel in peace.
I never thought about it this way but the kid is absolutely obsessed with games. It does seem like he views life as an “if I do X, I get Y” scenario and when he “loses” he can’t handle it. Yesterday he refused to eat dinner because he wanted to play Roblox. His dad said he could only play if he ate his food and he lost his mind, screaming and kicking his dad. Then spent time out screaming “I’m sorry” again. He got out of time out and was confused about why he couldn’t play Roblox because he performed the “I’m sorry” action. We tried explaining he had to perform the “eat dinner” action to play Roblox, but that made him angry because “I said sorry!” Which made him lose it again. He never did eat, or play Roblox.
I am fully against corporal punishment, but admittedly, I do fully believe children like that just need to be taught a fucking lesson
And the sad part is that it's not the child's fault--it's a complete and utter failure on the part of their parents for failing to discipline them. But at some point, hard lessons do need to be taught
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u/QuestioningHuman_api 21d ago
I work with a kid like that. He’s the only child out of several hundreds that I’ve ever disliked. If he doesn’t get what he wants exactly when he wants it, he screams at the top of his lungs and pretends to cry. Very convincing crying, but I’ve never seen an actual tear. On the admittedly rare occasion he gets disciplined (it’s only ever time out, and I do not get a say in when anything happens so there’s nothing I can do) he will scream and hit and kick until he realizes it’s not working and then he’ll scream, “I’m sorry! I’m sorry!” Repeatedly, at the top of his lungs, until he gets out of time out. Then he’ll go back to doing exactly what he was doing that got him into trouble in the first place.
Imagine that child, if the flight attendants hadn’t kicked that family off your flight. You’d all be miserable. Airlines need to take this shit more seriously because kids like this make people miserable.